Archive through November 28, 2013

Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Star Fleet Battles: New Product Development: Triangulum Module: Archive through November 28, 2013
By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Wednesday, November 13, 2013 - 01:13 am: Edit

Given the cost of arming the linear accelerators, I wouldn't mind keeping the numbers of them as they are, so long as each was proportionally as effective for the energy points spent. (I don't think the Imperium ships should have their power curves increased to support more LAs, but also don't want to see them made overly power-starved with added mounts they can't arm - or re-arm - effectively.)

Maybe allowing the damage to go over 6 at short range, as suggested above, might add to the toolbox.


Perhaps the LAs on a turret could have hemispheric arcs? The HACs would remain at 120 degrees, which would keep the premium on which shield facing the turret is pointing out of.

By Francois Angers (Francoisngg) on Wednesday, November 13, 2013 - 01:31 am: Edit

Thanks Gary,

We will go with the 2 impulses delay for the HAC and the new table for the linear accelerator found on the SSDs I sent (see below for chart numbers), also the LA should do more then 6 points of damage, add the plus or minus as seen on the new table.

SLA
range
0-2 damage: 1d6+1, average: 4.5, dam./cost:6
3-5 damage: 1D6-2, average: 1.5, dam./cost:2
6-15 damage: 1d6-3, average: 0.5, dam./cost: 0.67

phaser 3
range
1 average: 3.67, dam./cost: 7.33
2 average: 3,dam./cost: 6
4 average: 0.33, dam./cost: 0.67
12 average: 0.17, dam./cost: 0.33

MLA
range
0-2 damage: 1D6+4, average: 7.5, dam./cost: 5
3-5 damage: 1D6+2, average: 5.5, dam./cost: 3.67
6-15 damage: 1D6-2, average: 1.5, dam./cost: 1
16-35 damage: 1D6-3, average: 0.5, dam./cost: 0.33

phaser 1
range
1 average: 5.33, dam./cost: 5.33
4 average: 3.83, dam./cost: 3.83
8 average: 2.17, dam./cost: 2.17
15 average: 1, dam./cost: 1
25 average: 0.5, dam./cost: 0.5

If you compare it to a phaser 3 or 1 you get something a little more similar. With this table 4 MLA do about the same damage as 6 phaser 1 for the same 6 points of energy. What do you think?

By Norman Dizon (Normandizon) on Wednesday, November 13, 2013 - 02:27 am: Edit

Hi Francois. These changes look good. I think it will give the Imperium CA a better chance in a Duel. Especially with the extended range on the Linear Accelerators.

If the Imperium player can maneuver well, he might be able to use the rear Medium Linear Accelerator in addition to the 4 Medium Linear Accelerators in the turret. That is 5 Medium Linear Accelerators per turn.

Alternatively, he could keep the opponent in front of him, giving him 4 Small Linear Accelerators in addition to the 4 Medium Linear Accelerators in the turret.

Gary brings up a great point about the cost of the Linear Accelerators. If they cost more to fire than a Phaser-1, then they should do more damage than a Phaser-1. To cost more to fire and then do less damage does not make sense.

The tough part about balancing the Imperium CA vs the Gorn CA is the Hypermass Autocannons vs the Plasma-S Torpedoes. While the Hypermass Autocannons fire every turn and have good damage, they have the impulse delay in-between shots and possibly a bad to-hit roll. The Plasmas give you a big blast but take long to rearm. Are 4 Hypermass Autocannons the equivalent of 2 Plasma-S Torpedoes?

If you only consider the Burst Mode of the Hypermass Autocannons, you can say they are roughly the same as a Disruptor. Given that, lets look at some other CAs that use Disruptors.

The Klingon D7 has Four Disruptors and Two Drone Racks. The Kzinti Strike Cruiser has Two Disruptors and Four Drone Racks. What does the Imperium have? It only has 4 Hypermass Autocannons. It seems to be missing something in this comparison with other Disruptor using empires.

You could argue that the Medium Mine is the secondary weapon that matches the Drone Racks. But how often is the Medium Mine employed successfully? Is it really equal to 2 or 4 Drone Racks?

If you look at the Single Shot mode of the Hypermass Autocannon, you could say it is basically like a Photon with a bad to-hit roll. But doesn't the Federation CA have one Drone Rack in addition to its four Photons?

We will have to see what results from further playtesting using the Imperium improvements. I think we are moving in the right direction.

By Francois Angers (Francoisngg) on Wednesday, November 13, 2013 - 02:42 am: Edit

Humm, interesting Norman. I know that in some of the battle we ran especially against a crunch damage enemy if you use the 4 MM plus 4 t-bomb we managed to make it hell on the pursuing ship, like a mini mine field (we kept the record of were we dropped a mine that was missed by the enemy and tried to go close to it again on a following turn and just add a second -or third- mine to make it even more difficult to miss them).

The other possibility if the MM isn't enough of a deterrent for the pursuer would be to upgrade the medium mine damage to 18 or even 20.

By Norman Dizon (Normandizon) on Saturday, November 16, 2013 - 11:23 pm: Edit

Hi Francois. I received the updated Hellfire Torpedo Rules and SSD. Hopefully this will resolve the issues with this power-hungry weapon.

We will begin playtesting it right away. Thanks.

By Norman Dizon (Normandizon) on Friday, November 22, 2013 - 02:34 am: Edit

I sent the official Helgardian Protector CA vs Klingon D7 Battlecruiser Playtest Report (3 Duels) to Francois and both Steves.

I made sure to note that the Drones were Speed 8 and not Speed 20 in all three Duels.

By Norman Dizon (Normandizon) on Friday, November 22, 2013 - 02:42 am: Edit

I sent the official Imperium CA vs Gorn CA Playtest Report (3 Duels) to Francois and both Steves.

I made sure to note that we used the Imperium SSD from Captain's Log #23 (not the latest revised Imperium SSD).

By Norman Dizon (Normandizon) on Friday, November 22, 2013 - 03:04 am: Edit

Hi Francois. Here is a summary of the first Worlds of Unions vs Kzinti Duel. This battle will be included in my official playtest report, along with a couple of other battles.

Approaching slowly, the Kzinti CA closed on the Worlds of Unions CA while firing Disruptors and launching a wave of Drones. During Turn 2, when the ships were at middle range, the Worlds of Unions CA launched two Hellfire Torpedoes. The Kzinti launched two more Drones and then turned to outrun the Hellfire Torpedoes.

The Worlds of Unions CA easily destroyed the 6 Drones launched by the Kzinti CA. After forcing the Hellfire Torpedoes to lose their Warhead Strength (by following the Kzinti CA over a great distance), the Kzinti CA fired its Phasers at the incoming Hellfire Torpedoes. One Hellfire Torpedo was destroyed, but the other Hellfire Torpedo was not.

The second Hellfire Torpedo struck the Kzinti's #4 Shield, completely collapsing it and causing Internals.

The Kzinti CA turned around to face the Worlds of Union CA. A vicious Knife Fight began.

The Kzinti CA launched a Scatterpack at close range. The Worlds of Unions CA launched two Hellfire Torpedoes.

The Kzinti CA was prepared and launched a Wild Weasel. To its surprise, one of the Hellfire Torpedoes was a Pseudo Hellfire Torpedo. The other Hellfire Torpedo was real and destroyed the Wild Weasel.

The Worlds of Unions CA tried to destroy the 6 Drones before they could impact. It only succeeded in destroying half of the Drones. 3 Drones struck the #1 Shield of the Worlds of Unions CA, destroying it. The Internals the Worlds of Unions CA suffered were mostly absorbed by the FH Neutronium Armor.

During Turn 4, both ships were next to each other and performing Tactical Maneuvers. The Kzinti CA launched another 4 Drones, but the Worlds of Unions CA countered with its own Wild Weasel. Later, the Worlds of Unions CA launched two more Hellfire Torpedoes and fired all of its EPPs, LPPs, and SPPs at the Kzinti CA. The Kzinti CA suffered serious damage.

On Turn 5, the Kzinti CA tried to accelerate and get away. It fired Overloaded Disruptors and Phasers. But they were no match for the Worlds of Unions CA. The Worlds of Unions CA fired all of its EPPs, LPPs, and SPPs, in addition to launching more Hellfire Torpedoes. In the end, the Kzinti CA had lost 4 Shields and suffered massive Internals.

Please see the Notes/Suggestions/Conclusions section at the bottom.


WORLDS OF UNIONS CA DRAGON (with Y63, Y120, Y154 REFITS) vs KZINTI CA (WITH SPEED 20, ACTIVE TERMINAL GUIDANCE (ATG) DRONES/NOT THE STRIKE CRUISER OR BATTLECRUISER) DUEL #1:

* NOTE THAT, PER FRANCOIS, THIS PLAYTEST DUEL USES THE LATEST HELLFIRE TORPEDO RULES. WE DID NOT USE THE HELLFIRE TORPEDO RULES FROM MODULE E2 OR FROM THE E2 ERRATA FROM DECEMBER 2011. WE ARE ALSO USING THE LATEST SSD FROM FRANCOIS, NOT THE SSD FROM MODULE E2 *


TURN 1

The Kzinti CA is moving slow.

The Worlds of Unions CA is moving slow.

Kzinti fires 2 standard disruptors at Range 27. They both miss.

Kzinti launches 4 Drones, Speed 20

TURN 2

Both ships are facing towards each other at an oblique angle. They are 21 hexes apart.

4 Drones are 19 Hexes away from the Worlds of Unions CA.

The Kzinti CA is moving fast.

The Worlds of Unions CA is moving at medium speed.

Kzinti launches 2 Drones, Speed 20.

Kzinti fires 2 standard Disruptors at Range 11. They both miss.

Worlds of Unions launches 2 Hellfire Torpedoes. They are 2 Turn, Speed 32 (Level 1), LTF 2 (Level 1), ROL .5 (Level 2)

Worlds of Unions fires 2 LPP, 1 EPP, and 2 SPP at 4 Drones. All 4 Drones are destroyed.

Worlds of Unions fires 2 EPP at 2 Drones. Both Drones are destroyed.

Worlds of Unions fires 1 EPP at Range 10. 2 points of damage is marked off Shield #4.

Kzinti fires 2 PH-1s and 8 PH-3s at Range 6 at a Hellfire Torpedo. The Warhead is reduced by 3.

TURN 3

The Kzinti CA is running away from the 2 Hellfire Torpedoes.

The 2 Hellfire Torpedoes are 3 Hexes away from the Kzinti CA.

The Worlds of Unions CA is chasing the Kzinti CA.

The Kzinti CA is 11 hexes away from the Worlds of Unions CA.

Both the Kzinti CA and the Worlds of Unions CA are moving fast.

Worlds of Unions fires 4 EPPs at Range 11. 11 points of damage is marked off Shield #4.

Kzinti fires 2 PH-1s and 8 PH-3s at 2 Hellfire Torpedoes. 1 Hellfire Torpedo is destroyed.

1 Hellfire Torpedo strikes the Kzinti CA. 20 points of damage are marked off Shield #4. Shield #4 collapses. The Kzinti CA takes 11 Internals.

Kzinti CA loses 2 Warp Engines, 3 PH-3s, 1 Disruptor, 1 Aux, 1 Impulse

Kzinti fires 1 PH-1 at Range 4. 4 points of damage are marked off Shield #1.

Kzinti CA performs Emergency Deceleration

Kzinti CA launches Scatterpack Shuttle.

Scatterpack Shuttle launches 6 Drones, Speed 20, Active Terminal Guidance (ATG).

Worlds of Unions launches 2 Hellfire Torpedoes. They are 1 Turn, Speed 32 (Level 1), LTF 2 (Level 1), ROL .5 (Level 2).

Kzinti CA launches a Wild Weasel.

2 Hellfire Torpedoes are now locked onto the Wild Weasel.

Worlds of Unions fires 2 SPP and 2 LPP at 6 Drones. 3 Drones are destroyed.

2 Hellfire Torpedoes strike the Wild Weasel. One Hellfire Torpedo was a Pseudo Hellfire Torpedo.

Worlds of Unions CA performs Emergency Deceleration.

3 Drones strike the Worlds of Unions CA. 36 points of damage is applied to Shield #1. Shield #1 Collapses. The Worlds of Unions CA takes 13 Internals.

The Worlds of Unions CA loses 6 FH Neutronium Armor.

The Wild Weasel enters its Post Explosion Period.

Worlds of Unions launches 1 Hellfire Torpedo. It is 1 Turn, Speed 32 (Level 1), LTF 2 (Level 1), ROL .5 (Level 2).

Kzinti fires 1 PH-1 at Range 1 at Hellfire Torpedo. The Warhead is reduced by 3.

Hellfire Torpedo strikes the Kzinti CA. After subtracting reinforcement, the Kzinti takes 1 point of damage to Shield #1.

At this point in the Duel, the Kzinti CA has no Shield #4. 1 point of damage has been marked off Shield #1.

The Kzinti CA has lost 2 Warp Engines, 3 PH-3s, 1 Disruptor, 1 Aux, 1 Impulse

The Worlds of Unions CA has no Shield #1. The Worlds of Unions CA has lost 6 FH Neutronium Armor.

TURN 4

Both ships are facing each other. The Worlds of Union CA's #2 Shield is facing the Kzinti CA. The Kzinti CA's #1 Shield is facing the Worlds of Unions CA. They are 1 Hex apart.

Both ships are performing Tactical Maneuvers.

Kzinti launches 4 Drones, Speed 20, Active Terminal Guidance (ATG).

Worlds of Unions launches a Wild Weasel.

4 Drones lock onto the Wild Weasel.

4 Drones destroy the Wild Weasel.

Worlds of Unions launches 1 Hellfire Torpedo. It is 1 Turn, Speed 32 (Level 1), LTF 2 (Level 1), ROL .5 (Level 2).

Worlds of Unions fires 4 EPPs, 2 LPPs, and 1 SPP at Range 1. After subtracting reinforcement, 39 points of damage are applied to Shield #1. Shield #1 Collapses. The Kzinti CA takes 16 Internals.

The Kzinti CA loses 2 PH-3s, 2 Warp Engines, 1 Drone, 1 Disruptor.

Kzinti fires 3 Overloaded Disruptors at Range 1. 10 points of damage are absorbed by reinforcement.

Kzinti fires 4 PH-3s and 2 PH-1s at Range 1 at the Hellfire Torpedo. The Hellfire Torpedo is destroyed.

Kzinti fires 2 PH-1s at Range 1. After subtracting reinforcement, 10 points of damage are marked off Shield #2.

Both ships perform Tactical Maneuvers and Turn.

Worlds of Unions launches 1 Hellfire Torpedo. It is 1 Turn, Speed 32 (Level 1), LTF 2 (Level 1), ROL .5 (Level 2).

Worlds of Unions fires 1 SPP at Range 1. 12 points of damage are marked off Shield #2.

Hellfire Torpedo strikes the Kzinti CA. 12 points of damage are applied to Shield #2. Shield #2 Collapses. The Kzinti CA takes 2 Internals.

The Kzinti CA loses 1 Battery.

Both ships perform Tactical Maneuvers and Turn.

At this point in the Duel, the Kzinti CA has no Shield #1, Shield #2 or Shield #4.

The Kzinti CA has lost 2 Disruptors, 1 Drone, 5 PH-3s, 4 Warp Engines, 1 Impulse, 1 Aux, and 2 Tractor Beams.

The Worlds of Unions CA has no Shield #1. The Worlds of Unions CA has also taken 10 damage to Shield #2 and lost 6 FH Neutronium Armor.

TURN 5

Both ships are parallel to each other, facing the same direction. They are 1 Hex apart.

Both ships are moving slow.

Worlds of Unions launches 2 Hellfire Torpedoes. They are 1 Turn, Speed 32 (Level 1), LTF 2 (Level 1), ROL .5 (Level 2).

Kzinti fires 3 PH-1s and 2 PH-3s at Range 1 at Hellfire Torpedo. One Hellfire Torpedo loses 10 Warhead Strength.

Kzinti fires 2 Overloaded Disruptors at Range 1. After subtracting reinforcement, 13 points of damage are marked off Shield #6.

2 Hellfire Torpedoes strike the Kzinti CA. After subtracting reinforcement, 12 damage is marked off Shield #3.

Worlds of Unions fires 4 EPP, 2 LPP, and 1 SPP at Range 1. 44 Damage is applied to Shield #3. Shield #3 Collapses. The Kzinti CA takes 34 Internals.

REST OF TURN 5 AND ON

The Kzinti CA is badly damaged. The Kzinti CA is missing Shield #1, Shield #2, Shield #3, and Shield #4.

It is a simple matter for the Worlds of Unions CA to send over Arachnid Boarding Parties and Assimilate the remaining Kzinti crew.

The Worlds of Unions CA is Victorious!


Captain Tarantulus of the Worlds of Unions CA Black Web chatters, "Never had Cat Hosts before. Will be fun...until your Host Bodies wear out."


NOTES/SUGGESTIONS/CONCLUSIONS

1) Although the Hellfire Torpedo works fine with the new rules (Level 1 and Level 2), our first impressions were that this weapon might be too powerful. Further playtesting is required.

A One Turn Hellfire Torpedo (at close range) will score 12 points of damage. This is more than a single turn Overloaded Disruptor (10 points) and more than a standard Photon (8 points). It is true that the Hellfire Torpedo degrades with distance. But a close range Alpha Strike could still potentially result in 12 points per Hellfire Torpedo every turn.

In another comparison, the Hellfire Torpedo is more powerful than a Plasma-S. A Hellfire Torpedo that is armed for three turns (with 3 points maximum) will yield a Warhead Strength of 45 points. The Plasma-S, after 3 turns, does 30 points of damage. So the Hellfire Torpedo is closer to a Plasma-R, which after 3 turns does 50 points of damage (while the Hellfire Torpedo does 45 points of damage after 3 turns). Yet the Gorn CA has two Plasma-S Torpedoes, not two Plasma-R Torpedoes.

After traveling 11 hexes, a Plasma-S will do 22 points of damage and a Plasma-R will do 35 points of damage. If the Rate Of Loss (ROL) is not upgraded, a 3-Turn Hellfire Torpedo will do 12 points of damage after traveling 11 hexes. If the Rate of Loss (ROL) is upgraded to Level 1, a 3-Turn Hellfire Torpedo will do 23 points of damage after traveling 11 hexes. If the Rate of Loss (ROL) is upgraded to Level 2, a 3-Turn Hellfire Torpedo will do 34 points of damage after traveling 11 hexes.

So a 3-Turn Hellfire Torpedo with a Level 1 Upgrade is roughly equivalent to a Plasma-S at Range 11. A 3-Turn Hellfire Torpedo with a Level 2 Upgrade is roughly equivalent to a Plasma-R at Range 11.

Upgrading the Hellfire Torpedo's Rate of Loss is not difficult. It simply costs 0.5 x 3 = 1.5 points to upgrade a 3-Turn Hellfire Torpedo's ROL to Level 1. And it costs 1 x 3 = 3 points to upgrade a 3-Turn Hellfire Torpedo's ROL to Level 2. The Worlds of Unions Heavy Cruiser has more than enough power to upgrade both Hellfire Torpedoes.

The higher damage is not balanced by the number of Hellfire Torpedoes or their firing arcs. The Worlds of Unions CA has two Hellfire Torpedoes. The Gorn CA has two Plasma-S Torpedoes. The firing arcs on the Hellfire Torpedoes are LP and RP.

There are several factors that balance the Hellfire Torpedo. But are they enough? They are:

a) The Hellfire Torpedo costs more to arm than a Plasma-S or Plasma-R. So the more you pay, the more you get.

b) If the Speed of a Hellfire Torpedo is not upgraded, then it is slower than a Plasma. It does not cost too much to upgrade the Speed of a Hellfire Torpedo.

c) If the Loss To Fire (LTF) is not upgraded, then the Hellfire Torpedo can be damaged easier than a Plasma. It does not cost too much to upgrade the LTF of a Hellfire Torpedo.

d) If the Rate of Loss (ROL) is not upgraded, then the Hellfire Torpedo loses Warhead Strength faster than a Plasma. It does not cost too much to upgrade the ROL of a Hellfire Torpedo.

A Hellfire Torpedo certainly does more damage than a Plasma Torpedo (assuming the full 3 points is paid every turn of arming). A 1 Turn Hellfire Torpedo will do 12 points, a 2 Turn Hellfire Torpedo will do 24 points, a 3 Turn Hellfire Torpedo will do 45 points, and a 4 Turn Hellfire Torpedo will do 60 points. But these numbers are supposed to be balanced by the fact that the Speed, Loss to Fire, and Rate of Loss will be worse than a Plasma if not upgraded. Providing further balance is the fact that a Hellfire Torpedo (with Upgrades) will cost more to arm than a Plasma Torpedo.

It may be too early to tell if the Hellfire Torpedo is too powerful, but our initial observations indicate that it might be.

2) The SPP may cause too much damage. Although this weapon is a Phaser, it is roughly equivalent to a Fusion Beam. If you compare the SPP's damage with a Fusion Beam's damage, the SPP's damage is roughly equivalent to a Fusion Beam's damage at Range 0. The SPP's damage is better than a Fusion Beam's damage at Ranges 1-4.

The SPP costs only 1 point to arm and can be fired every turn. The Fusion Beam costs 2 points to arm and has to cool down for a turn after firing.

So we have a Phaser weapon that costs less than a Fusion Beam, fires more rapidly than a Fusion Beam, and does the same damage, if not more damage than, a Fusion Beam.

The only balancing factor to the SPP is that the Worlds of Unions CA only has two of them. One SPP is LS and the other SPP is RS.

Our initial observation of this weapon is that it almost gives the Worlds of Unions CA a "backup heavy weapon", since it does the damage of a Fusion Beam at close range (0-4). So not only does the Worlds of Unions CA have two Hellfire Torpedoes (which may or may not be too powerful in themselves), but it also has two SPP's which can do the damage of a Fusion Beam for less cost and a faster arming period.

3) The EPPs and LPPs work fine. They are similar to Phaser-1s and Phaser-3s respectively.

4) The Power Curve on the Worlds of Unions CA is appropriate for the two power-hungry Hellfire Torpedoes.

5) The Turn Mode is fine on the Worlds of Unions CA.

6) Shield #1 may (or may not) be too strong on the Worlds of Unions CA. The Worlds of Unions CA has 27 boxes on Shield #1. In comparison, the Helgardian CA has 18 Shields (plus 2 Rotary Shields), the Imperium CA has 24 Shields, and the Valorean CA has 24 Shields (on the updated SSD).

The Worlds of Union CA has 9 FH Neutronium Armor. The Imperium CA has 12 FH Neutronium Armor and the Valorean CA has 10 FH Neutronium Armor.

So it seems the higher Shield #1 on the Worlds of Union CA is balanced by the lower FH Neutronium Armor.

This needs to be playtested further to confirm.

7) The Hellfire Blaster and Hellblazer Torpedo have not been tested yet.

By Francois Angers (Francoisngg) on Friday, November 22, 2013 - 10:16 am: Edit

Thank you for the report Norman,

I think the major problem for this ship is still the Hellfire Torpedo being a little too strong, so if your next duel turn the same way we will reduce the damage multiple by 1 for all torpedo (x3 for 1 or 2 turns, x4 for 3 or 4 turns). This would give the torpedo a warhead:

1 turn = a warhead of 9
2 turns = a warhead of 18 (about the same as a two-turn F)
3 turns = a warhead of 36 (a little more then a plasma S but you only have the two HF torp).
4 turns = a warhead of 48 (for a total of 96 points of plasma VS 100 for a Gorn CA or a Firehawk).

By Norman Dizon (Normandizon) on Friday, November 22, 2013 - 10:24 am: Edit

Thanks Francois. Reducing the damage multiple was going to be the exact solution that I proposed. We are thinking along the same lines.

But what about the SPP? Do you think it is too powerful?

By Francois Angers (Francoisngg) on Friday, November 22, 2013 - 10:42 am: Edit

About the Short Range Pulse Phaser,

at range 1 it average 8 points of damage against the 5.33 of a phaser 1 but that is still less then a phaser G that does 14.6 points of damage. It should be compared to the phaser G not a phaser 1, it serve the same function except it isn't good for defense against drone.

phaser G

range 1 = 14.62
range 2 = 12
range 3 = 4
range 4 = 1.33
range 5 = 1.33
range 6-8 = 1.17

Sort Range Pulse Phaser

range 1 = 8
range 2 = 6.75
range 3 = 4
range 4 = 2.83
range 5 = 1.17
range 6-8 = 0.75

So the only range where a SPP is better then a PH-G is range 4, at all other range the PH-G is better and by a lot.

Also if a WOU centerlines you at range 1 the average damage output of its phaser is: 50.33 total (4 EPP, 2 SPP, and 2 LPP). About the same as a Federation CC (50).

By Norman Dizon (Normandizon) on Friday, November 22, 2013 - 10:54 am: Edit

Thanks Francois. The comparison to a PH-G makes sense. Our first impression was that the SPP was a powerful short range PH-1 variant.

And if you compare against the Hydrans, even the Hydrans have the PH-G to supplement their Heavy Weapons (and fighters).

Ok, lets see what happens in the 2nd and 3rd Duels.

By Francois Angers (Francoisngg) on Friday, November 22, 2013 - 11:29 am: Edit

Yes the SPP is a variant of the MPP (which serve the same purpose as the phaser 1) but it was created for the same purpose as a phaser G, good versus plasma and to keep your opponent away.

If the result of the second battle is the same as the first duel, don't do a third one, just go with the fix (reducing the damage multiple by one) and restart the process please.

By Norman Dizon (Normandizon) on Friday, November 22, 2013 - 11:33 am: Edit

Ok, will do. Thanks Francois.

By Nick Samaras (Koogie) on Saturday, November 23, 2013 - 12:08 am: Edit

Summary of playtest battle; Atrean CA vs. Klingon D7K with UIM and fast drones.

TURN #1: Klingon D7K speed 20, Atrean CA speed 17

Summary: The Klingon D7K maintains distance while it launches a scatterpack and prepares a wild weasel. The Atrean CA is holding 3 medium torpedoes. The Klingon launches two type-I drones which are destroyed by Atrean phasers. On impulse 32 the D7K fires standard disruptors at range 17 cuasing minor damage to shield #1.


TURN #2: Klingon D7K speed 20, Atrean CA speed 18

Summary: Both ships close, the scatterpack blossoms (6 type-I). At range 8, the D7K fires 4 disruptors (one overloaded by battery) and 5 phaser-1 dropping a shield on the Atrean but causing no internal damage. The UIM burns out.
Both ships turn off as the Atrean launches 3 medium plasma-X (one enhanced with phaser shielding) while it is pursued by the drones of the scatterpack.

Atrean manages to stop 3 of the drones from the scatterpack, the other 3 will hit shield #3 late in the turn causing 18 internals, causing mainly hull damage thanks to the neutronium armor.

The plasma-X catch up to the D7K. After being reduced by phaser fire, they eventually reduce the #4 shield to one box after reinforcement.

The D7K turns towards the Atrean CA at the end of the turn, launching 2 type-I drones.


TURN #3: Klingon D7K speed 11, Atrean CA speed 12

Summary: The Klingon cancels its wild weasel and begins arming a second scatterpack. It launches 2 more type-I drones giving it four on the board.

The Atrean CA dispatches the drones with phasers (requires several as two are only cruppled on their first shot) while turning away to rearm its plasma-X as six small.

The D7K pursues; at range 13 it fires 4 disruptors causing 12 damage to shield #5.


TURN #4; Klingon D7K speed 21, Atrean CA speed 14

The Atrean is trying to create distance while reloading its plasmas. The D7K pursues, and at range 8 fires 4 disruptors (one overloaded by battery) and 5 phaser-1 causing 15 damage to Atrean shield #4.

The D7K is trying to end the turn at range 8. The Atrean turns towards the D7K and manages to catch it on its damaged #3 shield with several phasers. Minor internals to D7K.

At the end if the turn the D7K launches 2 type-I drones which are dispatched by phasers.


TURN #5: Klingon D7K speed 19, Atrean CA speed 12

On Imp #1 the Atrean launches two small plasma-X with speed boost. The D7K does not have its disruptors in arc and turns away from the Atrean and the incoming plasmas.

The Atrean fires several phasers at the D7Ks #4 shield, causing 8 internals. The D7K destroys the plasma-X with phasers and turns back towards the Atrean CA. On imp #21 it fires 4 disruptors at range 9 causing minor internals.

TURN #6: Klingon D7K speed 17, Atrean CA speed 12

Summary: The Atrean CA fires two more small plasma-X with speed boost and firs several phasers at range 6, causing 21 damage to the D7Ks #6 shield.

The D7K fires four standard disruptors and some phasers causing 16 damage to Atrean #4 shield, then turns away from the incoming plasma.

The D7K fires remaining phasers at the plasma-Xs and destroys both. Launches second scatterpack.
The Atrean destroys one of the two type-I drones and tractors the other.

The Atrean turns away from the scatterpack and the D7K turns back towards the Atrean.

On imp #19 the second scatterpack blossoms. Having no phasers left and unable to outrun the drones, the Atrean CA is forced to fire its two remaining plasmas at the incoming drones.

The Atrean CA is hit by 4 type-I drones on its #6 shiield, resulting in 39 internals.

The Atrean concedes with the D7K facing a down shield and within overload range for turn #7.


Observations: The Atrean is vulnerable to an enemy that stays outside of range 11 with moderate speed as it outside effective Atrean phaser range and can outrun small and even medium torpedoes. The Atrean was forced to use speed boost with its plasma support chamber to try and even catch the D7K. Other plasma empires have the option to bolt their torpedoes to try and do some damage to counter this; the Atrean lacks that ability.

Both sides played a fairly basic game to get a feel for the Atrean. Next match will be an Atrean CA vs Federation CA.

By Norman Dizon (Normandizon) on Saturday, November 23, 2013 - 01:11 am: Edit

Hi Nick. Great report on the Atrean playtest battle.

It is wonderful to see another group providing playtest reports for Triangulum.

By Francois Angers (Francoisngg) on Saturday, November 23, 2013 - 10:25 am: Edit

Thanks Nick,

In your opinion the Plasma X needs to be able to bolt? Would that have help in this case? I notice that twice the Atrean was hit by drones, is it to limited in drone defense or did the player make some mistake for this to happen?

By Nick Samaras (Koogie) on Saturday, November 23, 2013 - 10:38 am: Edit

Francois, I want to try Atrean against a few more opponents before recommending a bolt option (perhaps another ability of the plasma support chamber?).

As to the drone defence, I think it was just getting used to the Atrean and some bad luck.

We enjoyed them so far.

By Francois Angers (Francoisngg) on Saturday, November 23, 2013 - 10:57 am: Edit

Thanks, will wait for other duel.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Saturday, November 23, 2013 - 04:18 pm: Edit

When it comes to the option of firing a Hellfire (and Hellblazer?) torpedo in a single turn, it may be worth comparing that to what a Paravian quantum wave torpedo can do in the same circumstance (as detailed in Module C6, and as presented on the CW SSD in that volume's preview PDF).

Not least given how many hellfire launchers are on each class of ship, relative to the QWT complement one sees on their Alpha-Paravian counterparts in C6.

Also, the QWT, along with other seeking weapons, like the Probr HEAT and Trobrin implosion torpedo, may be worth bearing in mind when it comes to deciding whether or not a given form of plasma(-esque weapon) needs a bolt option to be effective. (Or if such an option were better off being split into its own weapon, as seen with the Trobrin implosion bolt.)

By Norman Dizon (Normandizon) on Saturday, November 23, 2013 - 05:21 pm: Edit

Those are great suggestions, Gary.

I didn't think of comparing the Hellfire Torpedo to a Quantum Wave Torpedo (because of its weird splash effect). But it may be useful to consider the Quantum Wave Torpedo's Regular Damage, Overload Damage, and Cost To Arm.

Also, I always thought of the ability to Bolt as an Optional Function of a Plasma Torpedo. But you are right, it doesn't have to be. It could be a completely separate weapon, like the Implosion Bolt.

By Norman Dizon (Normandizon) on Wednesday, November 27, 2013 - 03:44 am: Edit

Hi Francois. Here is a summary of the second Worlds of Union vs Kzinti Duel. This battle will be included in my official playtest report, along with a couple of other battles.

During Turns 1 and 2, the Kzinti CA performed a Battle Run against the Worlds of Unions CA. The Kzinti CA launched a wave of Drones, and then fired Disruptors and Phasers from Range 15. The Kzinti then turned off to avoid any Hellfire Torpedoes the Worlds of Unions CA might launch.

After fighting its way through the Drones, the Worlds of Unions CA began chasing the Kzinti CA, which was now moving away. The Worlds of Unions CA launched two Hellfire Torpedoes.

The Kzinti CA was prepared and performed Emergency Deceleration. Then the Kzinti CA launched a Wild Weasel to take care of the two Hellfire Torpedoes.

Taking advantage of the Kzinti CA's loss of speed, the Worlds of Unions CA carefully manuevered around and approached the Kzinti CA from the rear. It closed the distance and fired all of its Pulse Phasers at close range.

The Worlds of Unions CA had not anticipated the vicious Phaser-3 return fire from the Kzinti CA. Both ships took Internals from that exchange and neither ship had a clear advantage over the other.

Missing its #6 Shield, the Worlds of Unions CA desperately tried to gain some distance and turn around. The Kzinti CA performed a High Energy Turn and launched another wave of Drones.

The Kzinti CA fired overloaded Disruptors and Phasers, while the Worlds of Unions CA maneuvered around and launched one Hellfire Torpedo after another. Strangely, the turn ended with both ships right next to each other (one hex apart), but both facing the same direction.

The Kzinti CA launched another wave of Drones and then fired overloaded Disruptors and Phasers. The Worlds of Unions CA tried to fight back with its own Hellfire Torpedoes and Pulse Phasers. In the end, the Worlds of Unions CA took massive Internals while the Kzinti CA only sustained further Shield damage. The final blow was struck when the Kzinti CA overran the Worlds of Unions CA and fired more Phasers at point blank range.

Amazingly, the Kzinti CA was Victorious over the Worlds of Unions CA!

Please see the Notes/Suggestions/Conclusions section at the bottom.


WORLDS OF UNION CA DRAGON (with Y63, Y120, Y154 REFITS) vs KZINTI CA (WITH SPEED 20, ACTIVE TERMINAL GUIDANCE (ATG) DRONES/NOT THE STRIKE CRUISER OR BATTLECRUISER) DUEL #2:

* NOTE THAT, PER FRANCOIS, THIS PLAYTEST DUEL USES THE LATEST HELLFIRE TORPEDO RULES. WE DID NOT USE THE HELLFIRE TORPEDO RULES FROM MODULE E2 OR FROM THE E2 ERRATA FROM DECEMBER 2011. WE ARE ALSO USING THE LATEST SSD FROM FRANCOIS, NOT THE SSD FROM MODULE E2 *


TURN 1

The Kzinti CA is moving slow. The Worlds of Unions is moving slow.

Kzinti fires 2 standard Disruptors at Range 27. They both miss.

TURN 2

Both ships are approaching each other. The Kzinti CA is moving fast. The Worlds of Unions CA is moving fast. They are 21 Hexes apart.

Kzinti fires 2 standard Disruptors at Range 15. After subtracting reinforcement, 5 points of damage are marked off Shield #1.

Kzinti fires 2 PH-1s at Range 15. 1 point of damage is marked off Shield #1.

Kzinti launches 4 Drones, Speed 20.

Kzinti fires 2 standard Disruptors at Range 13. 5 points of damage are marked off Shield #1.

Kzinti fires 1 PH-1 at Range 13. 3 points of damage are marked off Shield #1.

Kzinti fires 2 PH-1s at Range 10. They both miss.

Worlds of Unions fires 2 LPPs, 1 SPP, and 1 EPP at Range 1 at 4 Drones. All 4 Drones are destroyed.

Worlds of Unions fires 3 EPPs at Range 10. 8 points of damage are marked off Shield #3.

At this point in the Duel, the Worlds of Unions CA has taken 15 points of damage to Shield #1.

The Kzinti CA has taken 8 points of damage to Shield #3.

TURN 3

The Worlds of Unions CA is chasing the Kzinti CA. The Worlds of Unions CA is moving fast. The Kzinti CA is moving fast. They are 9 Hexes apart.

Worlds of Unions launches 2 Hellfire Torpedoes. They are 3 Turn, Speed 40 (Level 2), LTF 2 (Level 1), ROL 2 (Level 1).

Kzinti performs Emergency Deceleration.

Kzinti launches a Wild Weasel.

2 Hellfire Torpedoes lock onto the Wild Weasel.

2 Hellfire Torpedoes destroy the Wild Weasel.

Kzinti fires 2 overloaded Disruptors at Range 4. 16 points of damage are marked off Shield #6.

Kzinti fires 1 PH-1 at Range 4. 5 points of damage are marked off Shield #6.

Worlds of Unions fires 4 EPPs, 2 LPPs, and 1 SPP at Range 1. 36 points of damage are applied to Shield #4. Kzinti uses Reserve Power to reinforce Shield #4. Shield #4 collapses. The Kzinti CA takes 13 Internals.

The Kzinti CA loses 1 Bridge, 1 Disruptor, 1 Drone, 2 PH-3s, and 1 Warp Engine.

Kzinti fires 2 PH-1s and 8 PH-3s at Range 1. 41 points of damage are applied to Shield #6. Worlds of Unions used Reserve Power to reinforce Shield #6. Shield #6 collapses. The Worlds of Unions CA takes 34 Internals.

The Worlds of Unions CA loses all of its FH Neutronium Armor, 2 LPP, 1 Bridge, 1 EPP, 3 APR, 3 Impulse, 1 Battery, and 2 Warp Engines.

Worlds of Unions fires 1 LPP at Range 3. It misses.

Worlds of Unions fires 1 SPP at Range 3. 3 points of damage are marked off Shield #3.

At this point in the Duel, the Kzinti CA has no Shield #4. The Kzinti CA has taken 11 points of damage to Shield #3.

The Kzinti CA has lost 1 Bridge, 1 Disruptor, 1 Drone, 2 PH-3s, and 1 Warp Engine.

The Worlds of Unions CA has no Shield #6 and no FH Neutronium Armor. The Worlds of Unions CA has taken 15 points of damage to Shield #1.

The Worlds of Unions CA has lost all of its FH Neutronium Armor, 2 LPP, 1 Bridge, 1 EPP, 3 APR, 3 Impulse, 1 Battery, and 2 Warp Engines.

TURN 4

Both ships are directly facing each other. They are 6 Hexes apart. The Worlds of Unions CA is moving slow. The Kzinti CA is moving very slow.

The Kzinti CA performs a High Energy Turn. There is No Breakdown.

Kzinti launches 3 Drones, Speed 20.

Kzinti fires 3 overloaded Disruptors at Range 6. 6 points of damage are marked off Shield #3.

Kzinti fires 4 PH-1s at Range 6. 8 points of damage are marked off Shield #3.

Worlds of Unions launches 1 Hellfire Torpedo. It is 1 Turn, Speed 32 (Level 1), LTF 3 (Level 2), ROL 1 (Level 1).

Kzinti fires 4 PH-3s at Range 1 at the Hellfire Torpedo. The Hellfire Torpedo loses 2 points of Warhead Strength.

The Hellfire Torpedo strikes the Kzinti CA. 4 points of damage are marked off Shield #1.

Worlds of Unions fires 1 SPP and 2 EPP at Range 1 at 3 Drones. All 3 Drones are destroyed.

Worlds of Unions fires 1 EPP at Range 2. 4 points of damage are marked off Shield #2.

Kzinti fires 1 PH-3 at Range 1. 4 points of damage are marked off Shield #2.

Worlds of Unions launches 1 Hellfire Torpedo. The Hellfire Torpedo is 1 Turn, Speed 32 (Level 1), LTF 3 (Level 2), ROL 1 (Level 1).

Worlds of Unions fires 1 SPP at Range 0. 6 points of damage are marked off Shield #2.

The Hellfire Torpedo strikes the Kzinti CA. 12 points of damage are marked off Shield #2.

Kzinti fires 1 PH-3 at Range 0. 4 points of damage are marked off Shield #1.

At this point in the Duel, the Worlds of Unions CA has no Shield #6 and no FH Neutronium Armor. The Worlds of Unions CA has also taken 20 points of damage to Shield #1, 4 points of damage to Shield #2, and 14 points of damage to Shield #3.

The Worlds of Unions CA lost 2 LPPs, 1 Bridge, 1 EPP, 3 APR, 3 Impulse, 1 Battery, and 2 Warp Engines.

The Kzinti CA has no Shield #4 and no Shield #2. The Kzinti CA has also taken 4 points of damage to Shield #1 and 11 points of damage to Shield #3.

The Kzinti CA has lost 1 Bridge, 1 Disruptor, 1 Drone, 2 PH-3s, and 1 Warp Engine.

TURN 5

Both ships are facing the same direction. They are 1 Hex apart. The Worlds of Unions CA is moving slow. The Kzinti CA is moving slow.

Kzinti launches 3 Drones, Speed 20.

Worlds of Unions launches 1 Hellfire Torpedo. The Hellfire Torpedo is 1 Turn, Speed 32 (Level 1), LTF 3 (Level 2), ROL 1 (Level 1)

Worlds of Unions fires 1 LPP and 2 EPPs at Range 1 at 3 Drones. All 3 Drones are destroyed.

The Hellfire Torpedo strikes the Kzinti CA. 11 points of damage are marked off Shield #6.

Worlds of Unions fires 1 SPP at Range 1. 7 points of damage are marked off Shield #6.

Kzinti fires 3 overloaded Disruptors at Range 1. 30 points of damage are applied to Shield #3. After subtracting reinforcement, Shield #3 collapses. The Worlds of Unions CA takes 18 Internals.

Kzinti fires 3 PH-1s and 3 PH-3s at Range 1 through Down Shield #3. The Worlds of Unions CA takes 29 Internals.

The Worlds of Unions CA takes 47 Internals Total and only has 7 RH Neutronium Armor.

The Kzinti CA turns and moves on top of the World of Unions CA at Range 0.

Kzinti fires 1 PH-1 and 3 PH-3s at Range 0. This results in even more Internals.

The Kzinti CA has Won Decisively over the Worlds of Unions CA!!


Captain Gato of the Kzinti CA Hairball meows (in the voice of Antonio Banderas), "I will defend the Honor of the Kzinti Hegemony with my Last Breath."


NOTES/SUGGESTIONS/CONCLUSIONS

1) This Duel may have been won by the Kzinti Captain's exceptional command abilities. However, looking at the battle details, the Kzinti CA did not do anything extraordinarily different and the Worlds of Unions CA did not do anything terribly wrong.

2) The Hellfire Torpedo may not need to be revised. The original rules for the Hellfire Torpedo did not allow the Worlds of Unions CA to easily win over the Kzinti CA. In fact, using the original rules for the Hellfire Torpedo, the Worlds of Unions CA lost to the Kzinti CA. A third Duel is required.

3) We recommend that there be clarification added to the Hellfire Torpedo rules regarding final energy requirements. Specifically, what happens if Reserve Power or Extra Energy is applied on the last turn of arming.

For example, a Worlds of Unions Captain wants to arm a Hellfire Torpedo for 3 Turns with a Speed of 40 (Level 2). This will cost 9 (3+3+3) plus 3 (1+1+1). So, over the course of 3 Turns, the Worlds of Unions Captain will allocate a total of 12 points of energy (4 points each Turn).

It states in the Hellfire Torpedo rules that Reserve Power can be used to upgrade a Hellfire Torpedo. It also may be possible for extra energy to be paid to upgrade a Hellfire Torpedo.

So lets say the Hellfire Torpedo (in the example above) was armed with only 9 (3+3+3) points over the course of 3 Turns. If the Worlds of Unions Captain wanted to upgrade the Hellfire Torpedo with Reserve Power so the Hellfire Torpedo will have Speed 40, can he simply use 3 points of Reserve Power on Turn 3? Or, as an alternative, can the Captain simply allocate 3 more points of energy on the third turn of arming?

I guess the question is whether the Hellfire Torpedo is *Required* to have the appropriate energy *Each Turn* or whether the Hellfire Torpedo just needs the *Total Amount* at the *End of Arming*?

Also, can energy be added during Turn 2 (for a 3 Turn Hellfire Torpedo) or during Turns 2 and 3 (for a 4 Turn Hellfire Torpedo)? In other words, can a Hellfire Torpedo be "upgraded" in-between Turns and not just on the Final Turn?

Whatever the answer is (either the energy must be paid each turn or that the total energy just needs to be applied by the end of arming), the Hellfire Torpedo rules are not very clear about this. We recommend to add some examples or perhaps some additional text to clarify the correct procedure.

4) The SPP did not seem overly powerful during this Duel.

5) The Shields and Neutronium Armor did not seem overly powerful during this Duel.

6) The Turn Mode on the Worlds of Unions CA was fine.

7) We used faster speeds (Speed 40) and a tougher Loss To Fire for the Hellfire Torpedoes during this Duel. It was great to be able to control these variables for the Hellfire Torpedo. The Hellfire Torpedo has much more flexibility than the standard Plasma Torpedo, and we believe this will lead to some interesting tactics in the future.

By Francois Angers (Francoisngg) on Wednesday, November 27, 2013 - 04:15 pm: Edit

Hi Norm, great report, thanks!

Only the warhead must be paid in the energy allocation phase, the rest can be paid in any energy allocation or during any turn by applying reserve power. I will make a note to clarify this in the rules, thanks.

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandor) on Thursday, November 28, 2013 - 11:22 am: Edit

This almost makes me want to buy the product. I am very interested in how all this works out. Note the kzin should have had 12 drones on the map on the first attack. Two from each C-rack over two turns then 1 each from the B-rack over two turns. Some being type IV drones. At least that is what most Kzin do. Mind you it will bring out a weasel most times :)

By Norman Dizon (Normandizon) on Thursday, November 28, 2013 - 02:40 pm: Edit

Hi Gregory. We are as excited as you about Triangulum. Playtesting these ships has been a blast.

You have some great advice about the drones. It would certainly work with a Kzinti Battlecruiser (BC). But we ran the Playtest Duel with a Kzinti Heavy Cruiser (CA).

The Kzinti Battlecruiser has Type B and C Drone Racks and it could be armed with type IV drones. The Kzinti Heavy Cruiser has only Type A Drone Racks. For this Playtest Duel, the Kzinti CA had Type I-M (Medium Speed 20) Drones with ATG (Active Terminal Guidance).

Both the Kzinti CA and the Kzinti BC have a Sensor Rating of 6. So they should be able to control 6 Drones at most. Unless the Drones are within 8 Hexes of the target, in which case the ATG (Active Terminal Guidance) would kick in and do the rest on its own. It does not say on the Kzinti CA SSD or the Kzinti BC SSD that the ship can control a number of Drones equal to double their Sensor Rating (like the Kzinti CC SSD does).

This is what made the Kzinti CA win over the Worlds of Unions CA so great. The Kzinti CA was working with basic Drones, restricted Firing Arcs, and limited Power. But the Kzinti Captain still pulled off a Victory. It was Glorious!

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