And, whatever this is, however it works, the reason disruptors and fusions and hellbores don't work the same way is....?

By Stephen W. Fairfield (Sfairfield) on Saturday, March 09, 2002 - 03:02 pm: Edit

Pehaps...

Photon torpedoes are powered by warp power. The ion trial could be seen as a warp effect. The other direct fire weapons can, of course, be charged with warp or any other power, but they get no particular benefit from doing so?

By Tom Carroll (Sandman) on Saturday, March 09, 2002 - 03:07 pm: Edit

Because you say so?

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Saturday, March 09, 2002 - 03:19 pm: Edit

SVC: Hyper-warp anti-matter.

I've got to admit that this is a novel proposal.

I'd like to see this as some optional refit ala UIM for photon users after Y181.

By Christopher E. Fant (Cfant) on Saturday, March 09, 2002 - 03:21 pm: Edit

Ok, how about, instead of a +1, the torp "lights up the target" if it hits, creating a 3ECCM benefit for any enemy weapons fired on that ship, for say a period of 4 impulses.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Saturday, March 09, 2002 - 03:22 pm: Edit

UIM was given to the Klingons to make disruptors statistically equal to photons. If you give this to photons, what are you going to give to disruptors?

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Saturday, March 09, 2002 - 04:14 pm: Edit

Perhaps a minimum range? Say, range 5 is the minimum it will work? That way, you don't get much more accuracy over the disruptor with UIM.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Saturday, March 09, 2002 - 05:47 pm: Edit

I don't propose giving anything to the photon users, but as an optional fire control refit using commanders option points:

Ships with 2 torps: 2 pts
Ships with 3 torps: 3 pts
Ships with 4 torps: 5 pts
Ships with 6 torps: 9 pts
Ships with 8 torps: 12 pts

All torps linked must have the same firing arc.

By Gary Plana (Garyplana) on Saturday, March 09, 2002 - 05:58 pm: Edit

Rationale: disrupters, fusion, etc can't use it as those are beam weapons aimed at the time of firing; photon torps are physical projectiles whose course could be altered in flight. Example, a Paveway homing in on a laser designator.

Also, photon torps must be armed with warp power only, and you cannot get this effect with non-warp power (which explains why drones and plasmas can't use it, either).

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Saturday, March 09, 2002 - 06:41 pm: Edit

Gary Plana:

Disruptors are NOT beam weapons (E3.0). Neither are hellbores (E10.0).

Phasers are (E2.0), fusions are (E7.0), Maulers appear to be (E8.0).

You could make a case that a plasmatic pulsar is a beam weaapon (E11.0).

You would need one heck of an explantion of why, if warp power is necessary, any other weapon that was armed using warp power is denied the advantage. Just saying "because the photon torpedo REQUIRES warp power, it gains this BENEFIT. . . other weapons that do NOT REQUIRE warp power are PENALIZED by not being able to use this system" is a poor excuse (in my obviously highly biased pro-Klingon disruptor-loving opinon [VERY BIG GRIN]).

As to drones, they obviously DO use warp power, i.e., they have to be operating some sort of warp drive to move as fast as they do.

By Geoff Conn (Talonz) on Saturday, March 09, 2002 - 07:24 pm: Edit

By Steve Cole

And, whatever this is, however it works, the reason disruptors and fusions and hellbores don't work the same way is....?


Because it is an anomaly in the 'proximity' warhead device that was only recently discovered, and therefore unique to photons?

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Saturday, March 09, 2002 - 08:55 pm: Edit

I'll probably get bashed for this, but...

Maybe because it's a "photon" torpedo; i.e., it's somehow linked to visible light. As I understand it, disruptors are an energy discharge, and a hellbore is basically a contained nuclear explosive. Neither would necessarily be visible in the way a photon might be. Maybe the "photons" in the photon torpedo leave some kind of visible light trail the others don't?

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Saturday, March 09, 2002 - 09:05 pm: Edit

I think there's only one way to make Tracer Photons workable.


Not a real Photon torpedo but rather a strong electro magnet couple with a transmitter.
Inflicting no actual damage.

If fired close enough to the Vessel to get stuck on it ( at the outside of the sheild or the hull ) then the torpedo starts transmitting it's location and thus grants free ECCM to further attacks.

Unfortuately we have to make figure out how long it'll remain clamped on the outside of the sheilds before the high energy of the sheilds melts the casing. I say 16 impulses.

By Eric Stork (Merchant) on Sunday, March 10, 2002 - 01:23 am: Edit

SPP: Disruptors are NOT beam weapons

Didn't TOS have hand disruptor weapons that fired beams? I can understand hellbores not being beams, but what is a disruptor if not a beam?

By Christopher E. Fant (Cfant) on Sunday, March 10, 2002 - 05:39 am: Edit

Just stop the madness...........what is the deal with people wanting things to be so difficult? Simple rules are better rules.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Sunday, March 10, 2002 - 08:33 am: Edit

C.E.F.:


SFB...and people who want to play simple games...have you got fever or something.

By Ken Burnside (Ken_Burnside) on Sunday, March 10, 2002 - 08:45 am: Edit

If you don't allow OL tracers, this isn't a bad change for the Fed. Major improvement is at range 4, and it's less than the variability of phasers at that range, while dropping the top end yeild by 12 points.

I'll run a statistical set over lunch.

We'd need better technobabble, but the math looks like it works. The game has already allowed far worse technobabble than this.

As to "why can't everyone else use it?"

If disruptors can get UIM, DERFACS, and range improvements over time, why can't the photon improve a smidge? All those systems are disruptor-specific.

This is photon specific.

By Christopher E. Fant (Cfant) on Sunday, March 10, 2002 - 01:22 pm: Edit

There are already plenty of rules that make you stand on your head to understand.......like midturn speedchanges the first time you read it.

I like simple new rules, becuase my internal hard drive can only store so much before it starts to kick things out.

By Geoff Conn (Talonz) on Sunday, March 10, 2002 - 01:34 pm: Edit

This is pretty simple.

Fire one. Hit? -1 on subsequent photon rolls next impulse.

By Andrew Harding (Warlock) on Sunday, March 10, 2002 - 03:40 pm: Edit

Possible source of technobabble: Take advantage of the photon's longer ionised trail, firing the following photons within the trail of the first. Should the first torpedo hit, the following photons can follow the blast to the target; if it misses, then the trail is not strong enough and they hit or miss as usual.

Oh, about that trail - it's the same one that makes the photon the only weapon that does feedback damage when fired at targets outside the firing ship's hex.

By Jonathan Perry (Jonathan_Perry) on Monday, March 11, 2002 - 10:03 am: Edit

As a dyed in the wool Fed . . . I actually have reservations about the original rule. (That it might be too good)

Maybe Ken's math (I'm far too lazy) will blow this out of the water, but won't this have a dramatic effect on the range 30 Fed base-buster prox photon volley? The Feds already have a great time lobbing death at enemy BATS at range 30. Is an increase in this damage really necessary?

I DO like the idea of improving photon accuracy (who doesn't?) but my problem isn't with enemy forces that are 20-30 away. I'll fire prox, sure that I have enough time to arm standard before the enemy closes to point blank range. The problem for me is @range 12. If this weapon helped the feds at range 12-20, I would think that good enough. That range is death for the Feds, because you can hold overloads forever trying to get in close, but if you fire prox, you will get overrun before you reload. Make the odds a bit better at those ranges and you may open up more options for the feds.

I'll stop rambling now and wander back over to "Give the Feds What They Want", and see how I'm getting bashed over there.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Monday, March 11, 2002 - 10:34 am: Edit

Eric Stork:

I cannot recall any incident where a disruptor pistol was shown firing a "beam". Can you specify the episodes?

Jonathan Perry:

As to who does not like the idea of improving the accuracy of photons, try everyone whose race will be decimated by the improvement.

By Stephen W. Fairfield (Sfairfield) on Monday, March 11, 2002 - 03:14 pm: Edit

Tracer Photons: A New Approach

Putting aside for the moment the physics and why it only works for photons, here's a simplified revision of the original concept.

1. Tracer Photon: A tracer photon is set during EA, like a proximity torpedo. Tracers cost 2+2 points of warp power to arm. Each tracer fired at a target gives a +1 to hit for other photons fired at the same target by the same ship on the same impulse. The tracer itself does no damage and no roll to hit is made for it. A tracer can only be fired at a true range of 2 or greater. A tracer may be switched to a normal or proxmity round during EA.

2. Photons following a tracer have a tendency to detonate prematurely. For each photon that hits, roll on the following table and apply the result, rounding down:

By Jonathan Perry (Jonathan_Perry) on Monday, March 11, 2002 - 03:27 pm: Edit

Well that just got just about worthless. Okay, I suppose I could use it to knock out a SP shuttle, or to get SOME damage in on someone. . . but you are absolutely right in saying that it just became something "best used in a narrow range of circumstances".

By Stephen W. Fairfield (Sfairfield) on Monday, March 11, 2002 - 03:41 pm: Edit

Good! That was my original intention, to give photons an additional firing mode, that, like a narrow salvo, is not something you'd want to use in every situation due to the tradeoffs involved.