And 30 point #2 and 6 I agree.

Looks like you boosted the phaser 3's to 6, it may need that but when playing with the other version I made online it could probably use that 5th QWT.

Smart Captains eat the first 4 on a decent sized brick cruise in and wallop the Paravian in a point blank attack.

I'm also not sure I would go with 8 Impulse that is most of any tournament ship I've seen and the SSD for the C6 Paravian has APR if im not mistaken. But this is your creation and I for one am willing to give it a play as is, it looks fun.

I would just lower the forward shield to 30, take away 2 ph 3's, give it one more QWT and replace 2-4 Impulse with APR's and then playtest the heck out of it.

If its ok with the Steve's to put them online I can make a ship definition for both variants and send them to Paul Franz and maybe get some playtest results from online.

It would be cool if they could be used in World League 2014, maybe that would boost sales of C6 and could be timed to coincide with an e23 release.

There was talk long ago about allowing the Paravians or Carnivons to be added to SFBOL as 3rd Gen definitions when we completed a certain number of ship conversions AND got them uploaded to the client replacing their second gen counterparts.

I personally am waiting to buy C6 as a PDF since I do the vast majority of my gaming online and the PDF is ideal for that kind of gaming.

By Jim Davies (Mudfoot) on Saturday, March 01, 2014 - 08:21 pm: Edit

I don't have C6, just the playtest file so it's based on the CW which has shields of 34-20-20-20, 6P1, 4P3 and no APR. I dunno what a CC looks like. The TC's 42-24-24-24 is a direct scaling to 162 boxes which happens to work out nicely.

Clearly the usual model is shields 30-30-24-24, but the ATC and Frax don't have that so there's a precedent for changing. The reasoning behind it is that in a R1 knife fight, FA QWTs can launch only through the #1, so losing the #1 is a major problem.

The APR/Impulse question is again a matter of racial flavour; after all that C Hull has gone it'll lose shuttle bays but keep impulse TACs. Whether that's good or bad is a matter of opinion.

6 P1 + 6 P3 is a fairly standard quantity, same as the ISC. Nothing has better than a 180 arc. The 6 P3s let it take damage quite well, but as it has only 4 HWs and no drone-equivalent it needs to. The 4 rear P3s don't pad in the FA where most of the action is. Besides, think of them like talons in the overrun.

Anyway, I don't expect it to be perfectly balanced, so I'm sure it'll need lots of tweaking. Have fun.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Saturday, March 01, 2014 - 10:22 pm: Edit

I somehow thought the front shield was 30. It definitely should use the same pattern of other TCs (30/30/30/24/24/24). 42 on the front shield is not historical for the Paravian in any case and should not (imo) be done.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Sunday, March 02, 2014 - 08:24 am: Edit

Jim wrote:
>>Clearly the usual model is shields 30-30-24-24, but the ATC and Frax don't have that so there's a precedent for changing.>>

I'm pretty sure the Frax has the normal shields. The ATC probably should.

>>The reasoning behind it is that in a R1 knife fight, FA QWTs can launch only through the #1, so losing the #1 is a major problem.>>

It can launch FA QWTs through #2 and #6 as well in a R1 knife fight.

By Jim Davies (Mudfoot) on Sunday, March 02, 2014 - 07:57 pm: Edit

Frax shields are 30-24-24-30, which seems a bit unfair as it's less than anyone else.

I'm not sure why the ATC gets 30-30-27-27. 27 all round would seem OK if they want it to look like a real CCW which has 30 all round.

The TKE is another weird one, but it's such a freak that we'll let it go.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Sunday, March 02, 2014 - 08:24 pm: Edit

Huh. What do you know? I never noticed that about the Frax shields. Kooky.

By John Christie (John46) on Thursday, April 10, 2014 - 12:00 am: Edit

Trying to contact Barry Kirk and have been told this is the best place to get in touch with him.
I'm trying to find SSD's for the Omega Playtest Tournament Cruisers. Our group is looking at resuming regular gaming nights and using Tournament Ships for a while. What I'm looking for is either the Internet Address (thread) where the PDF files can be downloaded or the SSD's emailed to me at christieja@bigpond.com .
Thanks

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Thursday, April 10, 2014 - 01:07 am: Edit

Pretty sure that there are no such things, at least not officially. I've never seen them online, anywhere.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Thursday, April 10, 2014 - 03:55 pm: Edit

I asked Barry about it, and he should be along when time permits.


In light of CL48's publication, I'm wondering of the Jumokian New Light Cruiser might make a better MC 2/3 tournament ship than the CL in Module C5. While the design I had originally envisioned would have been a single-hull ship, the one in print is comprised of a pair of NFFs (a ship type also introduced in CL48) welded together.

The new ship has ten outer shield boxes in the front three facings (and eight-box facings to aft) with the usual 20-box inner shields of a SC 3 ship in the LMC.

It has 24 warp, 4 impulse, 4 APRs (from the 2 Self-Defense Pinnace packs mounted as standard), and 4 batteries. It has 6 MLs, 2 TLs, and 4 LLs backed by a quartet of BANK boxes. Also, it has two pairs of centerline adjacent option mounts, which are a step up from the three non-adjacent mounts on the older CL.

I've posted an errata note about a potential issue with the number of BPs the ship currently has, but by and large it is the most powerful hull type the Jumokians have available to them.

In terms of option mounts, it'd be able to carry available Eneen, Baduvai, and Maghadim technology in its option mounts: CPA-1/2/3s, MDs and MD-IIIs, NBs, Plasma-Es (with or without swivel mounts), and TACHs, on top of various system boxes available to them (such as more BANKs). As with other Jumokian ships, Uthiki systems (the BOS, POS, and TAG) are off the table, as are Eneen HPRs (since the Jumokians lack the required radiation tolerance).

Plus it has the standard distortion field generator seen on other Jumokian hulls, which adds one to three penalty hexes when active (and prevents mass driver lock-ons to boot) but has a running clock due to the strain on the tuning crystal (which can also be taken out by a hit-and-run raid).


While the Baduvai, Eneen, and Maghadim each have a provisional MC 1 TC, the Uthiki have to make do with a war cruiser (and one of Baduvai build, since the Harmony never built its own SC 3 warships). So while the Jumokian NCL might be smaller than the average, there is a precedent of sorts in its home setting.


So would the NCL sound like it might have the makings of an interesting trournament ship? Or, at least, one with a fresh set of option mount choices compared to the Alpha Octant norm?

By John Christie (John46) on Friday, April 11, 2014 - 03:01 am: Edit

Thanks, Gary.
Richard, there are playtest ones around, which are what I'm trying to get hold of. We're looking at some regular sessions using Tournament Ships, and as none of us have used Omega yet, I was thinking of throwing an Omega TCC or 3 into the mix.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Friday, April 11, 2014 - 03:38 am: Edit

I don't think they are 'official', I've never seen them on this website in the playtest area nor online on the internet somewhere.

If you do find them, please make a post as to the situation.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Friday, April 11, 2014 - 11:18 am: Edit

>>What I'm looking for is either the Internet Address (thread) where the PDF files can be downloaded or the SSD's emailed to me>>

There are no official Omega playtest ships. There is a good pile of reasonably sound Omega playtest ships posted on SFBOL that were made by players (Barry did most of the hard work, but a bunch of folks were involved in the process over the years). Some of them are solid and reasonably balanced (Maesron, Alunda, Probr, Chlorophon, Vari, Loriyll); some of them are not completely out of the realm of almost viable (Hiver, Kohligar, Trobrin); some of them are unlikely to ever actual work in the tournament setting (Drax, Sigvirion).

This being said, I'm pretty certain they only exist on SFBOL and there aren't actual non SFBOL SSDs available anywhere.

By John Christie (John46) on Saturday, April 12, 2014 - 12:11 am: Edit

Thanks, Peter, I'll have to do some digging there.

By Barry Kirk (Barrykirk) on Sunday, April 13, 2014 - 07:59 pm: Edit

Sorry about the long delay... I didn't know that people were asking about those Omega TCs until Gary informed me.

There were some unofficial SSDs that I was given several years ago that I used as a basis to make the tournament Omega TCs for use on the SFBOnline client. I was given those SSDs with the strict condition that I not re-distribute them.

However, I will also point out that those "Playtest Unsanctioned" Omega TCs were for the most part completely unbalanced.

I was given a set of LMC Playtest TCs as part of that package, and they were well balanced and completely playable right out of the box. Ken Burnside created the LMC playtest TCs.

Going back to the Omega TCs I have in PDF format... Again, I will point out that, they were very early beta test, I'd even say pre-alpha test versions. All of them were unbalanced right from the get go.

After a couple of years of playtesting and tweaking them, some of them are close to balanced. Note that these are SFBOnline only.

The following are pretty close to fair and balanced.

1. Maesron
2. Trobrin
3. Vari
4. Drex

I'm still not happy with the following. But they are close to within ballpark.

1. Chlorophon
2. Loryill
3. Hiver
4. Alunda
5. Kolhgar.. ( Long story which I probably should not bring up )
6. Probr... ( I don't know if I will be able to ever balance that ship.. )
7. Souldra
8. Worb

And everything else I've done is probably not possible to balance. Those races are just not playable.

1. Ryn
2. Sigviron

As for the Signers, I'm not going to attempt them because it's impossible to create balanced and/or playable ships for them.


There are a couple of races that I haven't done ships for yet which might be balanceable.

1. Iridani ( Most likely doable )
2. Qixa ( Not sure about them )
3. Branthadon ( Most likely not balanceable, but won't know till I try. )
4. Ymatrian ( Probably doable )
5. Aurora ( Almost certainly can be balanced )
6. Bolosco ( Too soon to tell )

Hope this all helps.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Sunday, April 13, 2014 - 08:48 pm: Edit

>>There were some unofficial SSDs that I was given several years ago that I used as a basis to make the tournament Omega TCs for use on the SFBOnline client. I was given those SSDs with the strict condition that I not re-distribute them. >>

Yeah, I have copies of those too on paper from Origins one year. They were made by, I think, Ken Burnside *before* O1 even came out as an intro to the ships. Each SSD came with a rules synopsis on the back. But a lot of the rules changed after those SSDs were printed.

>>1. Maesron
2. Trobrin
3. Vari
4. Drex >>

Maesron is good. Trobrin is probably too weak. Vari seems ok. Drex is, I think, impossible to make work, due to the advanced computer rules (and the HCHs being insanely overpowered).

>>1. Chlorophon
2. Loryill
3. Hiver
4. Alunda
5. Kolhgar.. ( Long story which I probably should not bring up )
6. Probr... ( I don't know if I will be able to ever balance that ship.. )
7. Souldra
8. Worb >>

Chlorophon is ok, but they are amazingly unsuited for a tournament situation. Loriyill seems ok. Hiver is still up in the air--is it currently the 1/2 move cost ship with 3-4 fighters? Alunda is probably fine--it is certainly completely solid against other Omega ships; it has trouble against alpha drone ships, but that will always be the case. Kohligar was fine as the basic CC design if it wasn't playing against Alpha; I don't even remember where it ended up, however. Probr seemed ok when I played against it. I haven't even seen the Souldra, and can't imagine that it would work in tournament play. The Worb seems easy enough to make work.

By John Christie (John46) on Sunday, April 13, 2014 - 11:27 pm: Edit

Barry, Peter.
Thanks. The Trobrin and Maesron would probably be the ones I was mainly interested in. Possibly also the Probr. But, obviously, there is a potential problem if you guys have been given these SSD's on the condition they not be re-distributed.
I have looked on SFBOnline, but haven't been able to find where they are there, but I'm not actually registered on there, so that may be the reason. I have received a Zip File (at least I think that's what it is) from Ken Kazinski. I just need to work out how to open it. (I'm only semi-computer literate).
I suspect that a major problem is the halt in further Omega material from ADB which, I have heard, is the result of a major computer crash which wiped out all or most of the unreleased material. Probably Official Tournament Ships would have part of the mix if further Modules had been done.
Again, thanks.
John Christie

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Sunday, April 13, 2014 - 11:40 pm: Edit

I forgot to note that the errata issue I referred to a few posts back for the Jumokian NCL has been addressed by SPP; rather than the 12 boarding parties shown on the SSD, the ship as presented in CL48 should have 20 (4 from the base hull, plus 8 additional BPs per self-defense pinnace pack).

The Marine complement may or may not have much of an impact on how effective (or otherwise) such a ship might be in this environment, however.


John:

There was a discussion about what happened over in another thread. If I recall correctly, the SSDs from Module Omega 5 were all done from scratch by ADB themselves, while the bulk of ships from the first 4 should have survived SPP's more recent computer crisis. (Either way, the Omega SSDs need a different program to create, which sets them apart from Alpha, LMC, Triangulum, or M81 SSDs.)

Bruce Graw's older unpublished material was lost quite some time ago, but there are some notes in CL36 regarding his vision for how the "lost futures" empires (such as the Vulpa Confederacy and the Paravian Jihad) might one day be set up.

There are a number of threads elsewhere on the BBS worth popping into, if you haven't seen them already.

For my part, I'd like to think that any new ships published for Omega in SFB would not only benefit this game system in and of itself, but also become fodder for the FC Omega project. (Version 3 of the Omega Playtest Rulebook should be uploaded in the near future.)

So I wouldn't lose all hope in seeing more Omega stuff for SFB just yet.

By Shawn Hantke (Shantke) on Monday, April 14, 2014 - 10:48 am: Edit

There were some Omega Tournament SSDs published in Star Fleet Times. Are these the ones on SFB Online?

By Ken Kazinski (Kjkazinski) on Monday, April 14, 2014 - 02:35 pm: Edit

John,

Do you need me to send you all the files separately and not in a zip file?

Ken

By Ken Kazinski (Kjkazinski) on Monday, April 14, 2014 - 02:49 pm: Edit

I plan on using the same ships this year at Council. I am hoping since this will be the 2nd year people will have had time to think on their tactics.

The general consensus from the after Council discussions was the ships were ok as is. Initially it seemed the Maesron was overpowered by a small bit. After hashing it around the consensus changed to it was OK. The Maesron was discussed starting with Archive through October 14, 2013.

-----------------------------------------------
My last post on the TC was on Tuesday, December 17, 2013 - 09:24 pm

I think everyone has had a chance to digest everything that has been written on the Maesron TC.

Based on all the information so far it seems the consensus seems to be leave the ship as is with the exception of reducing the front shield by 2 boxes to 30 boxes is the only change needed.
------------------------------------------------

So with that being said I believe that is the only thing that will change at this years Council. The TC shields will be 30-30-24-24-24-30.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Monday, April 14, 2014 - 06:01 pm: Edit

>>There were some Omega Tournament SSDs published in Star Fleet Times. Are these the ones on SFB Online?>>

Nope. Many are similar. But the ones that were in SFT are the ones that were designed before the rules even came out.

By Barry Kirk (Barrykirk) on Tuesday, April 15, 2014 - 07:09 pm: Edit

As for the Maesron, I'm thinking about just reducing the front shield to 30 for the 2014 Council of Five tournament.

John had said he was considering playtesting the Trobrin. That ship does have some issues. It tends to suck wind on power trying to recharge all it's weapons. The hold costs of the Bolts and Torps is quite reasonable, but the final turn of arming can be brutal.

So what I'm thinking is the following.

Remove one Implosion Bolt and change the firing arc of the other one to FH.

Increase the number of PR-1 (360) from two to four.

The ship will now have the following stats.

1) One Implosion Bolt FH
2) One Heavy Implosion Torp FH
3) One Light Implosion Torp LS
4) One Light Implosion Torp RS
5) Four PR-1 (360)
6) Two PR-1 LS
7) Two PR-1 RS
8) Two PR-3 FX
9) Two PR-3 RX
10) 33+4 Power on a MC 2/3
11) 8 Armor
12) 6 Forward Hull
13) 4 Center Hull
14) 2 Aft Hull

By Barry Kirk (Barrykirk) on Tuesday, April 15, 2014 - 07:16 pm: Edit

That Trobrin will be able to move while recharging weapons. It will have sufficient batteries to fast load the Bolt, of course that causes a lot of power issues.

The maximum alpha strike will be somewhat lighter, because two PR-1 do less damage than a single Implosion Torps.

Another alternative would be two put the two additional PR-1 on the sides instead of the 360 mount.

So

1) Two PR-1 (360)
2) Three PR-1 LS
3) Three PR-1 RS

By Barry Kirk (Barrykirk) on Tuesday, April 15, 2014 - 07:22 pm: Edit

That second option is probably better. The standard firing pass would be one Implosion Bolt and five PR-1 instead of the current one Implosion Bolt and four PR-1.

So the firing pass hits a little harder, and the phasers can recharge while the bolt and Torps are in the beginning turns of recharge when they are still cheap.

What say you all.

By Barry Kirk (Barrykirk) on Wednesday, April 16, 2014 - 05:47 pm: Edit

Or on third thought... Make the extra pair of PR-1s FH arc.