Archive through March 12, 2002
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Star Fleet Battles: Star Fleet Battles Online:
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Archive through March 12, 2002
Andy,
Believe or ot that was my original thought. Though, I think most people aren't interested in this because there is no goal.
Geoff,
After thinking about it more you are right in that I have been thinking of a BPV-based campaign the reason I like this is that it is free form. There are no controls accept possible the Year that the ships would need to be in service by. It also allows people to drop out at a moments notice and the campaign can still go onward. With people effected allowed to reposition there ships or the ships of the player that dropped out disappearing or a player being replaced. The one thing also about a campaign like that (or any strategic level campaign) we can automate alot of the tracking. And also I can integrate it into the SFBOL client.
Paul Franz
Here is some rules that I came up with. I would like peoples feedback on it.
1) Each turn each player gets a set amount of BPV to spend. (Based-on tertitory with a minimum of 25 BPV per turn with a maximum of 500 BPV)
2) Each turn each player can spend up to their BPV generated for that turn.
3) The player can accumalate BPV using specific allocation of the BPV towards a ship building project. (The type of ship needs to be recorded to be revealed at a later turn). This will allow players to build bigger ships.
4) Each turn a ship can move a maximum of 1 strategic hex per turn.
5) Each player needs to pay for fighters & PFs. PFs and fighters can not be used in combat with out being accompanied by support ships (PF Tenders and Carrier). Note: Casual PFs and Carriers can be used.
6) Drone upgrades (and other commanders options) are paid for as part of setup for each battle out of the general BPV fund for that player. Any unused ordance, (including WBPs, TBombs, Drone upgrades, etc.) will be added back to the general BPV pool for the player. Note: If you have no BPV in the general pool then you can by no upgrades or commander's options for a battle.
7) Special non-fighter shuttles are bought for out of the general pool and assigned to ships individually.
8) Ships, fighters and other paid for units are delivered at "warp points" set through out the players tertory. Note: if a player loses all of their WPs they will get a temporary one assigned by the moderator.
9) For a fighters and PFs to be delivered they need a home ship to be at a WP to "take delivery" of them. This ship must be able to store the units. For example, a normal cruiser (i.e. without mech links) could not accept a delivery of a PF. Also, a PF Tender that has all its mech links full can not accept delivery.
10) To repair a damaged ship a player must spend 1/2 the total BPV of the ship to fully repair the ship.
11) Ships can be repaired using campaign repair rules. But the damage taken by the ship needs to be recorded and tracked.
12) Fighters can not withdraw without their carrier. (unless there is another carrier one strategic hex away in the direction the fighters disengaged.)
13) PFs can not withdraw without their tender. (unless there is another tender within 2 strategic hexes away in the direction the PFs disengaged.) This includes casual tenders.
Steps for each turn are:
------------------------
1) Each player recieves a set amount of BPV.
2) Each player secretly records the allocation of the BPV. (including long term projects)
3) Each player moves his ships
4) When two "fleets" end movement in the same strategic hex a battle will ensue. The winner gains control of that strategic hex. The loser withdraws any surviving units one hex in the direction that they exited the board.
5) Each player repairs any ship that they can.
Paul Franz
Paul,
I have a much simpler and more abstract BPV challenge system already written up. I hesitate to post it here because I was thinking of submitting it at some point for CL pub.
Would you like to see it via email?
I would love to.
Paul Franz
Sent.
Recieved. I will go over it tonight and probably Email you back tomorrow.
Paul Franz
Paul,
How do you envision these games to be played? E.g - open map/closed map? What happens in a draw, or are you eliminating the draw rules in S?
I would recomend a large closed map myself, to prevent sheer stagnation. But I didnt' consider that in my proposal.
In a draw, no one would gain victory points. No biggie.
Paul, a few comments.
1) I can see this rapidly getting out of hand for players in the "mid-game" phase. 500 BPV is about what most players can individually control in a battle (as a general rule of thumb). Thus a successful player is likely to be rapidly overwhelmed--either they've got more than they can handle in battles or every space has them at their limit.
2) Its going to need a very robust system to handle players who fail to fight battles. (and this seems to leave no role for a more casual player).
3) The strategic speed seems to be low. Especially compared to the BPV gained (resulting in agravating point 1--eg even at the minimum BPV, I'd expect an F5 every 3d turn and won't get more than 3 hexes away...). Also with that low of a strategic speed, there will need to be many (and therefore fast) strategic turns. This doesn't leave players much time to fight out any explicit battles.
P.S. As near as I can tell, OpU collapsed due to moderator overwork.
"In a draw, no one would gain victory points. No biggie."
Don't make me ruin the entire first tournament just to prove this wrong.
David Kass wrote:
Quote:P.S. As near as I can tell, OpU collapsed due to moderator overwork.
Route 3 collapsed because of moderator overwork outside OpU. I don't know what happened on Route 2, but I thought Route 1 completed its first battle.
Paul,
Definitely, I had envisioned a large closed map. When it comes to draw. Nothing happens except that each player will be forced back one strategic hex from the "battle" hex in the direction that they left the board from. And neither controls the hex therefore they get no benefit except damaging the other force and have themselves use damaged. (At least possibly) Obviously, there is one thing I am definitely thinking about when it comes to battles and that is a player could "run past" their opponent. And the opposing player needs to stop that player.
Note: There is nothing that says all of the battles will be open space we could easily add a system to roll for terrian.
David,
1) I was hoping that what would happen is that you have a few starting players that are the "commanders" and then you can get multiple that want to be "captains" to control ships and complete the battles for their ships. Obviously, you should be able to start by yourself if you want. But if you don't have the time you can get other people to sign up under your "flag".
2) I am hoping that casual players can join on as captains and get assigned a ship when it is built.
3) Do you have better numbers to use? Any ideas? I am more than willing to listen to any suggestions that you have.
BTW, one thing that I forgot to mention was that each player should get a starting BPV pool to play with. Possibly 150-500 BPV.
Paul Franz
David,
In my challenge campaign which Paul F is hopefully reading, alot of these 'problems' are addressed like so;
1) I can see this rapidly getting out of hand for players in the "mid-game" phase. 500 BPV is about what most players can individually control in a battle ...
A player only plays battles of the scope he wishes to play.
2) Its going to need a very robust system to handle players who fail to fight battles. (and this seems to leave no role for a more casual player).
A player need only play battles when he wishes to or has time to. There is really no penalty for not doing so. (except possiblly in economic rounds)
3) The strategic speed seems to be low.
Unnecesary in an abstracted campaing, ie: no map.
This is the way to go imo, it is quick and clean. I do not want to go meandering about somebody's homemade map, I want to get to the fighting, and do it now! 
Paul S.,
"In a draw, no one would gain victory points. No biggie."
Don't make me ruin the entire first tournament just to prove this wrong.
Its not a tournament. If you play to a draw, neither player gains victory points/bpv. A costly situation that neither can afford in the long term, as it should be.
If you play yourself to the point of economic exhaustion (unable to replace losses) such is your lot.
There was talk of a minimum bvp per turn. Besides what makes you think I will hae losses.
Question to all people that are interested a SFBOL campaign
What is the kind of campaign that people are looking for?
1) Abstracted campaign (no map, a set of randomly selected/generated scenarios)
2) A strategic campaign where the object is to gain as much teritory as possible.
3) A fixed set of scenarios like "The Captain's Game" or "Lone Gray Wolf"
Paul Franz
I would probably play in any of these, but preference is:
2
3
1
best to worst: 3,1,2
To me the elements that can make up a good campaign are: relatively low BVPs (500 in any one battle tops), limited attrition units (no carriers or PFTs), closed map/fixed objective.
I would be interested in any, but:
2, 1, 3
It might be interesting to have "Admirals" controlling the force make up of each side and assign ships to scenarios, then Captains taking the ships assigned and playing the scenarios.
Perhaps an option might be considered to allow F&E type combat to resolve any fleet battles not finished in a specific amount of time.
My preference is: 3
Robert
Paul. You lose any games? Well, we might have fun teaching you about all those silly non-Tourney rules - like EW, EM, narrow salvoes, boarding party combat, etc. 
There was talk of a minimum bvp per turn. Besides what makes you think I will hae losses.
Less economic rounds the better imo. Less paperwork and moderation thus needed.
And the latter part of your quote sounds like a challenge to me, but after all you were the one saying you would be playing to a draw.
Paul F,
1,3, and a very distant 2. SFBOL is for playing battles. 1 or 3 tells us how to play those battles asap. 2 is just messy, very messy. And alot more work for both moderators and players alike.
I would have to say my preference is 2, 1, 3.
Small squadron actions are the best, with an occasional (read: quite rare) fleet battle with several people on each side, but if there is the possability of fleet battles there probably does need to be a way to resolve battles that for whatever reason don't get played out by people.
Nick
Heh,
I meant losses in the same way you used it. I can play for a draw and never experience losses that I have to use economy to replace.