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	Archive through March 19, 2016	25		03/20 01:06pm

Jeff Wile:

I am pretty sure there were no minefields in the "W" era, if for no other reason than there were no "minelayers" designed to lay such fields in that period. The "Radius Zero" detection zone would also make such a field cost prohibitive since the mine would only trigger if it was directly run over.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Saturday, March 19, 2016 - 05:40 pm: Edit

To be clearer in the above (to everybody). The detection radius of "modern" mines (whether nuclear space or small mines) means that they can cover an area by three hexes across, two of them can cover an area six hexes across.

Yes, if you hit one of them, there is then a gap three hexes across, but that detection radius also means it is possible to deploy them in depth (e.g., behind the first two mines can be a third mine offset to be centered between them, two hexes behind it two more mines, thus setting a pattern of five mines covering the area of a "minefield" that is five hexes deep with just five mines).

To get the same general coverage with radius zero mines you would have to deploy six of them in each line of the belt, and it would be no harder to "sweep a gap" as only one mine in each line in each case needs to be swept. (Sweep one radius zero mine in a line of six such mines, and you can run between the two adjacent mines safely, but if you fail to keep track of the path . . .).

There are no captor mines to help cover the situation, and nothing in the rules allows the use of early years mines in a minefield to be cheaper, so while the five mines in the example cost 15 BPV (three BPV each for large mines in a minefield), the zero radius mines needed to create the same barrier effect cost 54 BPV, and this is just one small area of the field.

There are no modifications to the rules to detect a minefield, or to identify individual mines in the Early Years.

All that being said, it should be pointed out that in the Early Years some empires are at more of a disadvantage than others in the attempt to breach a field.

The Federation, for example, would need to bring an Andorian ship as a minesweeper (to use its drones), as tractor beams only function in the rear arc making it rather difficult to sweep a mine with phasers. But the Klingons, Romulans, Kzintis, Gorns, Orions (if seeking weapons are taken in an option mount), some pre-Inter-Stellar Concordium empires, Paravians and Carnivons can all use seeking weapons. (The Tholians, of course, arrive with fully functional tractors and can sap a minefield with phasers normally.) Of course all empires (except the Romulans and Andromedans) could avail themselves of suicide shuttles as seeking weapons for this purpose, and of course the "cheap and risky" substitute of a "wild weasel" shuttle could be used (cheap in that it does not take nearly as much power as a suicide shuttle to arm and can be launched without targeting from a longer range to trigger the mine, risky in that the mine MIGHT have a target count or not be set for the size class of the launching ship meaning it may fail to "sweep" the mine).

By and large minefields probably (I have not on a fast look found an exact date) started showing up after Y145 when radius-1 triggers were developed, and that is why minesweeping shuttles and minesweepers start showing up in Y150 and later.

The above being said, it does not mean that it would be impossible under the current rules for a minefield to exist in the "W" (or "Y" or pre-Y145 middle years) era, but it does mean that to be effective at all it would be extremely expensive (to have enough density, again the rules for detecting a minefield and individual mines in that field were not modified by the Early Years rules), and extremely ineffective for the cost.

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Saturday, March 19, 2016 - 11:33 pm: Edit

Still, someone might scatter a few (a dozen or so) mines around just to keep the enemy "honest". You never know, you might just get lucky and have them run right over one or two.


Garth L. Getgen

By Jon Murdock (Xenocide) on Sunday, March 20, 2016 - 12:50 pm: Edit

I imagine that in the end the cost of the mines would make it seem pointless. In the Middle Years and later in a defense mission I would much rather have a minefield then an extra war cruiser or light cruiser (roughly the same cost in BPV at least if I remember correctly). Of course it is pretty much always better to have a weak minefield then no minefield but the minefield means you gave up something else.

In the early years I would rather have a frigate than an equivalent to the above warcruiser same-cost minefield and I imagine the various military and political groups would feel the same way.

I could see them deployed maybe at critical areas on a short-term basis if they were available but if you deploy them generally you need the ships and resources to maintain them and the empires just did not have them.

My personal grievance against mines is I find mineclearing generally does not lead to a fun scenario.

By Mike Dowd (Mike_Dowd) on Sunday, March 20, 2016 - 01:06 pm: Edit

Jeff Wile:

I am in *full* agreement that the best option is to fight over the base. The simple fact of the matter is that I HAVE NO DECISION IN THIS. I'm a player who has been tapped to follow the orders of this NPC idiot with too much •••• brass on their shoulders.

The only 'campaign' horse I have in this race is that if I beat up the player, or deny his annexation of this world, his economy suffers.

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandor) on Sunday, March 20, 2016 - 09:25 pm: Edit

Mike they are just giving the best advice.. as You said the admiral has ordered a approach battle. So You must minimize loses. Good luck

By Jon Murdock (Xenocide) on Monday, March 21, 2016 - 01:11 am: Edit

Have you considered mutiny? ;)

By Mike Dowd (Mike_Dowd) on Monday, March 21, 2016 - 07:51 am: Edit

Oh, I tried... and I was shown what an airlock door looks like...

When I get home, I'll try to post what happened during this debacle....