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We've decided to cut EW for now except for bases which can loan themselves 4 ECM.

We're in Y178 so fast drones are available but not general availability. I had a few scattered through the fleet but they had to compete with starfish drones in the the limited slots.

Re: hellbores. It's hard to turn fresh shields in when a lot of your weapons have bad arcs such as the LF/RF split. Granted those arcs also give more maneuver options if you are OK with losing half of a ship's heavy weapons. It'll be an interesting battle either way.

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Friday, November 25, 2022 - 03:54 pm: Edit

Note that generally hellbore splash damage is spread over many shields and most of it will not matter. While more shield damage may be done, it will be very rare that more internal damage is done compared to prox photons at that range bracket.

By Ginger McMurray (Gingermcmurray) on Friday, November 25, 2022 - 04:23 pm: Edit

Barring judicial use of phasers (and thus slower speeds) most hellbore damage will go to the weaker rear shields at first. Those matter less once the range finally closes.

That said, a fleet heavy in hellbores and light in fighters will likely see me closing fast so the dance contest won't last long.

By John L Stiff (Tarkin22180) on Friday, November 25, 2022 - 07:40 pm: Edit

I think photons at range 30 is the right call when fighting Hellbores at range 30. There is no need to give the Hydrans a range 22 shot. Though perhaps someone can roll for both theoretical fleets at 22 and compare damage.

By Mike Erickson (Mike_Erickson) on Friday, November 25, 2022 - 07:49 pm: Edit

>> judicial use of phasers

judicious?

Or should we imagine judges in Star Trek garb carrying phasers to keep order in the courtrooms?

--Mike

By Ginger McMurray (Gingermcmurray) on Friday, November 25, 2022 - 08:23 pm: Edit

Maybe prejudicial use of phasers? It would explain why the Feds attacked the Hydrans.

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandar) on Saturday, November 26, 2022 - 05:05 pm: Edit

Range 22 hits on 1-2 fires twice a turn. uses 3 points of power. Holds 5 in the capacitor. Long range sniping. 1 out of 3 hits? Twice a turn.

The lowly PC?

By John L Stiff (Tarkin22180) on Saturday, November 26, 2022 - 06:22 pm: Edit

Ugh, PC rolls worse than a Photon and damages less than a Disruptor.

If we are going exotic ships, the Jindarian Rail gun almost equals the FED.

Range 31 to 55, to hit 1-2, damage 1.
Range 26 to 30, to hit 1-3, damage 2.
Range 21 to 25, to hit 1-3, damage 5.
Range 16 to 20, to hit 1-4, damage 8.
etc.

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandar) on Saturday, November 26, 2022 - 08:45 pm: Edit

They are talking about photons using proximity warheads. 1-3 to hit 4 damage every other turn.
2+2 power to arm and fire.
4 photons 2 hit 8 damage. every other turn.

PC 1-2 to hit 1 or 2 damage twice per turn.
Range22 being best for the PC.
2 for first shot 1 for second shot. 3 per turn
4 PC 2 hits a turn for 4 two turns 8.
(Note firing twice a turn.)

All this does not take into account lucky rolls. It is the fact that the PC gets to fire twice in a turn.

So long range sniping?

By Ginger McMurray (Gingermcmurray) on Saturday, November 26, 2022 - 09:22 pm: Edit

What are the arcs on the PCs? Can you dance a long time without having to keep them in your FA for half a turn while the cannon shots become available? I'm wondering which fleet could maintain the long range for the most number of turns if we assume the opponent's goal is to close ASAP. If PCs are FA then you have to move towards the enemy multiple times per turn while the Fed is only moving towards them once every other turn.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Saturday, November 26, 2022 - 10:18 pm: Edit

Seltorian and home galaxy Tholian ships tend to have FA arcs for their particle cannons, whereas M81 Pirate ships have mostly FA option mounts with one LF+L mount apiece.

In fairness, the Seltorians and M81 Pirates would see particle cannons as a means to a different end: getting a target ship's shields reduced to the point where shield crackers can be used to facilitate boarding attempts.

And of course, home galaxy Tholian fleets have another means of disrupting an opposing fleet's movement in open space, courtesy of unrestricted access to web casters...

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The "lost empire" Carnivons have the disruptor cannon, which can use DERFACS (but not the UIM). DCs on Size Class 2 units can go out to range 40, but those on Size Class 3 ships tend to be "merely" limited to Range 30.

The Carnivons themselves mostly mount their DCs in FA arcs, though Orions in "lost empire" Carnivon timelines can install them in "wing" mounts.

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In terms of long-range sniping options from outside the Alpha Octant, a two- or three-point tachyon gun warhead can hit on a die roll of 1-4 all the way out to Range 32.

Phaser-wise, quantum phaser-1s and -2s are among the best in known space for this role, not least since they have four points of built-in ECCM as standard.

There is as yet no faction which uses both tachyon guns and quantum phasers in tandem - unless you consider the potential for a Zosman Marauder cell to use such weapons while operating on the border of Mæsron and Probr space.

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Although, the Zosmans and Chlorophons can combine quantum phasers with energy howitzers - which on one- and two-point shots can fire out to range 30 with 1-2 rolls to hit (or 1-3 rolls to hit at range 23) to land "shield-cracking" damage on three adjacent shield facings at once.

Plus, the Phons themselves can use spore casters to disrupt enemy movement as far as 20 hexes away - though the disruption caused is not on the same level as that provided by the web caster.

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Another non-Alpha heavy weapon with a potential long-range option is the focused energy beam - which rolls a 2-6 on 2D6 to hit out to Range 32, with a 32-impulse delay between shots. Although the Iridani cannot use their target illuminators to adjust the die roll for a FEB beyond Range 20.

Still, as most Iridani ships have "broad-siding" heavy weapon arcs, they don't have to be facing towards the opposing force when firing them.

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While the Federal Republic of Aurora inherit Star Fleet's use of proximity photons for "standard" warheads, and can set both light and heavy photons to proximity fuses also.

Plus, their "hybrid" destroyers provide a mix of light photon and disruptor armament - to include access to the UIM and DERFACS - which might be useful for an FRA squadron or fleet facing Andromedan opposition.

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandar) on Sunday, November 27, 2022 - 07:06 pm: Edit

Ginger with the PCs yes You have to keep them in FA. to get both shots. Most players tend to charge a Seltorian as they are not a crunch race at all. They do not dance well either. The PC can be charged with 5 power so fire a standard as they come in and then an overload if they get into range. It is real hard to get two long range shots in.

Now if the Fed fires Prox then the Selt can fire both shots... not the same shield I am sure either. Or the Selt gets into overload range.

I found it real hard getting two shots a turn at range.

I did think about Neo-Tholians with the Web caster. Fire a long range snipe, throw up web to block or slow down the enemy. So you can close and fire overloads or get another snipe in that turn. Not sure how easy it would be to do on the map However.

By Ginger McMurray (Gingermcmurray) on Sunday, November 27, 2022 - 11:03 pm: Edit

So it sounds like Feds are near the top of the pack for long range fleet sniping. Some can match in terms of damage but have to split shields by firing across two turns.

Gimme Lorilyll in Omega for it any day. Quantum phasers plus good arcs plus speed plus insane turn modes equals win.

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Monday, November 28, 2022 - 08:38 am: Edit

Random Noise:

Ginger: I hadn't been aware you were't using EW in your Admiral's Game. What about erratic maneuvering? Can ships still use EM?

Tarkin: Agree about range-30 versus range-22. I believe the Feds win at range-30 but lose at range-22. But there are still two problems to consider.

1) The Hydrans may try to fight at range-40. Hellbores won't do a lot but photons (unless X-tech) do nothing a all.

2) (And related to 1) With the power curves of some of the hellbore ships, it will be difficult for the Feds to control the range. A few ships, like the BCH and NCL, can try to play that game but a lot of the other Feds really can't.

Richard Eitzen: I partly disagree with your 3:54 PM post from Friday. I think your point is valid for large fleets capable of firing massed volleys of proximity fused photon torpedoes, which will tear down shields and do significant internals even at range-30. But for smaller forces, where the ability to wreck a ship in a single volley is more questionable, outside of overload range, the ability of the hellbore to do internal damage through non-facing shields becomes more important. Note that this latter case will tend to eventually happen even in large battles, as both sides take losses and become less and less able to blast through enemy shields in a single long range volley.

The other issue with hellbores is their superiority in conducting "Mizia" attacks.

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Monday, November 28, 2022 - 08:53 am: Edit

Forgot to comment on Seltorians and particle cannons.

Two points:

1) Seltorians generally have well-above-average phaser suites. Several of their ships also have above-average power.

2) Seltorians in this galaxy have PFs and fighters. They can try to use these attrition units to keep the enemy away from their main warships, allowing multiple long-range fires. Note that the Setorian PFs are, in my opinion, among the best in Alpha. I persoanlly rate the Tholians as just slightly better, but the difference is small. Their fighters are late-model Klingons and can put out significant drone waves the enemy will have to force through in order to close.

By Ginger McMurray (Gingermcmurray) on Monday, November 28, 2022 - 08:54 am: Edit

No EM. The only sources of EW will be natural ones such as weasels, small targets, and terrain.

By Ginger McMurray (Gingermcmurray) on Monday, November 28, 2022 - 09:27 am: Edit

Edit: moved Seltorian talk to the Seltorian board.

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Monday, November 28, 2022 - 10:33 am: Edit

My post did assume large fleets.

By Ginger McMurray (Gingermcmurray) on Monday, November 28, 2022 - 11:20 am: Edit

IMO it's safe to say that disruptors are the kings of dancing when dealing with single ships or smaller fleets due to their accuracy to damage ratio. Especially if you can get FH or FX into the mix.

The more ships you get the more important it is to be able to concentrate the most damage on a single shield. It means you can cripple or destroy something in a single turn. Or at least force it to make the hard decision on whether to keep pointing a down shield at you or turn off and leave the rest of the chasing ships. Photons excel there.