According to the appropriate R-section entry in the Federation Master Starship Book, one reason why Star Fleet does not operate diplomatic cruisers is due to the Federation's belief that it better projects its power and security by sending a VIP Transport [(R2.48) from Module R2] instead. I suggested exploring that concept a bit further in a separate proposal thread.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Tuesday, January 17, 2017 - 02:52 pm: Edit

Again, since the publication of the EPT, I simply do not see the need for a specific "diplomatic" variant of the Armed Priority Transport. My opinion.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Tuesday, January 17, 2017 - 11:23 pm: Edit

It occurs to me that there are several variants that might qualify for a type of police support squadron.

The APO, police oiler would carry sufficient fuel for two or perhaps three POL corvettes refueling. Would increase the time on station for the POL's.

Normal APT could similarly provide replacement parts, stores or even limited personnel transfers for three POL corvettes. Possibly fuel for one POL?

A APH (small hospital variant) to provide medical support for a province or even two provinces that lack major or minor world or a star base? Could also supplement fuel for police ships?

APR repair ship variant, another police ship support ship providing services to two provinces at same time that lack proper base facilities?

APG Petrick discussed this above... with regards to a APG assigned to a police support squadron this ship acts as accommodation ship. Personnel transfers to or from assignments in the police ships await assignment or return to regular base on the next convoy. Might hold a FLGS police battalion if no FLGS available.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 01:53 pm: Edit

Just personally I don't think police ships are ever far enough from planetside facilities to need support ships.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 03:28 pm: Edit

Ordinarily, I am sure you are correct.

What about exceptions? Such as new surveyed provinces in the un mapped area towards the galactic center?

What about reoccupied provinces that Enemies retreated from during the General war? Between the devastated worlds and destroyed prewar bases, the infrastructure that normally support police and civilian users just do not exist until rebuilt.

How did the coalition support police and civilian ships in all of the territory captured from the alliance before they could set up new supply grid nodes? How did the coalition gather the newly mined ores, minerals and refined metals without supporting the frieghters used to carry the newly produced resources to the factories and ship yards back in their home worlds?

WHat did the Alliance do about the resource production in the captured territories during the drives against the Klingon and Romulan home worlds in the late general war period?

The choice boils down to doing without while new supply grid nodes are put into place, or setting up temporary capacity.

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 04:05 pm: Edit

But even at that, Jeff, why would the Police need a separate design for a re-supply / re-fueling ship???? Just use the same design as Star Fleet.


Garth L. Getgen

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 07:36 pm: Edit

Garth, its a question of economies of scale.

Star fleet is supporting 100+ star ships through thirteen star bases at fixed locations...which if you do the math translates to supporting 5,000+ crew units on ships plus various star bases and 34 total battle stations in each star base are.

A police ship squadron, at the rate of one pol or armed cutter/ CUT per F&E hex or sector per province which translates to as few as four ships to a max of seven. (Assuming all such provinces are no less than four sectors nor more than seven). You have done the crew rosters, you better than most should realize that four PoLs have 40 crew units, and seven POLs would have 70 crew units. If the mission called for establishing a seven ship police squadron in the new survey area for which no bases currently exist, how do you propose they be supplied? A normal convoy would be far more than what logistical support 7 pols would need.

Even at that, a convoy used to extend the supply grid wouldn't provide any medical support, couldnt support a police battalion, or provide ship repair.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Thursday, January 19, 2017 - 05:32 pm: Edit

Jeff Wile:

Age old question: Which comes first, the chicken or the egg?

You are pretty much assuming the police patrols come, and then the logistics. Could be very different. First comes the logistics, then comes the police patrols. In short, it is the creation of wealth that brings both the criminal and the lawman. Neither functions without wealth first being created. The criminal cannot survive off his own nefarious acts unless the situation provides enough wealth that his acts will support him. It is the need to protect burgeoning wealth that invites the appointment of law officials and finally enough of a tax base to support a police department.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Thursday, January 19, 2017 - 07:46 pm: Edit

In the American western frontier, it was the army that led the way. Building roads, establishing forts, maintaining patrols.

I didn't understand that unprotected the citizens had to establish themselves first.

By Richard Wells (Rwwells) on Friday, January 20, 2017 - 02:09 pm: Edit

In the New England frontier, government intervention came later. The basic track of the road from Hartford to Albany and Lyman's fort were established about 20 years before Connecticut government turned the track into the Great Turnpike in the Great Woods and about 25 years before the landing on Royal troops 120 miles to the east in Boston. In SFU, a colony should easily manage to be even more self-supporting.

By Eddie Crutchfield (Librarian101) on Friday, January 20, 2017 - 06:22 pm: Edit

Jeff as the country moved west it was generally the explorers that went first, the Mountain men and trappers going beyond the existing limit, then it was those that took advantage of the Mountain men's work, the traders that established the trading posts and private company forts, people settled around these and the military later generally would build their forts on or near these. The roads were built on trails established by the pioneers not before. Did you ever read or see James Micheners Centennial? Really gives a nice view of how the west was really won.

By wayne douglas power (Wayne) on Friday, January 20, 2017 - 07:12 pm: Edit

Generally the same with explorers in Australia.

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandor) on Friday, January 20, 2017 - 07:14 pm: Edit

This may be more like discovering the new world. Exploration ships go out find a planet that is habitable. A group of people want to colonize said world and win the right to do so. They move in and establish the colony.

If the colony is close to the Romulan neutral zone. Then money would be spent on defenses for the colony as well as perhaps some ground troops. This would of course hurt the economic growth of the colony.

If the Colony is not close to a hostile boarder then more money can be spent on developing the economy of the new colony and less on defense.

In all cases the Navy will add the new colony to patrolled areas. As in the colonization of the new world that new colony is really on it.s own. The navy stops by and it will be put on a trade route depending on what it is selling are buying.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Friday, January 20, 2017 - 08:57 pm: Edit

As I recall, some companies during the age of exploration actually maintained military forces.

The west India company maintained a number of military units, battalion and regiments in India. They also operated naval units...for some reason I believe they built warships and maintained ship yards. The HMS Trincomalee is a 38 gun frigate that still exists and is on display in one of the United Kingdom's sea ports is an example.

I don't recall anything comparable in the current rules for Star Fleet Battles.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Friday, January 20, 2017 - 09:04 pm: Edit

I take that back. Before the start of the General War, Romulan Privateers/raiders attacked Federation colonies and worlds, infact I think a history article in a captains log documented it at the time the U.S.S. Macedonia was destroyed.

I don't remember what non star fleet units, if any, were in existence at the time.

By Terry O'Carroll (Terryoc) on Friday, January 20, 2017 - 09:59 pm: Edit

There were private security companies, there's an article on one of the largest called "Black Diamond" in one of the CLs. They would have been operating armed civilian units.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Friday, January 20, 2017 - 10:23 pm: Edit

terry, I have no problem believing that there were any number of private security companies, no doubt some using APTs and perhaps even some unpublished variants of APTs.

The most recent new idea seems to be that as new areas are opened to colonization in the Federation, civilians must be prepared to pay for mercenaries or bring their own defense forces as Star Fleet will not show up until said civilians can pay for it.

By Dal Downing (Rambler) on Saturday, January 21, 2017 - 02:37 am: Edit

Jeff did you even watch TOS. How many times while on frontier patrol was the Enterprise give a distress call to a colony that was destroyed before they got there?

TOS did seem to give the impression that naval units and were often days if not weeks apart and the Arena even stated most colony's provided a Defence Force.

By Eddie Crutchfield (Librarian101) on Saturday, January 21, 2017 - 10:28 am: Edit

Jeff the West India company was Dutch organization it was the East India Company in India. In Canada it was the Hudson Bay Company.

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Saturday, January 21, 2017 - 03:04 pm: Edit

In my mind, with the Y102 unilateral declaration of the Federation border at 4750 parsecs radius centered on the Capital Zone, Star Fleet made a mad dash to the border and started mapping the region. This means they had the core region (Capital plus six surrounding hexes) heavily explored (95+% by Y168), with the border regions (two or three hexes around the rim) mapped out for military purpose (~50% by Y168), leaving a middle ring some four to six hexes wide of "fly over country" that is lightly explored (perhaps 10-25%) save for a few travel routes between the center and rim.

Each F&E hex is 125 million cubic parsecs with at least a million (and perhaps ten million) stellar bodies and dozens if not a couple hundred viable planets. There could be alien civilizations yet to be contacted just a thousand parsecs form Earth, not to mention who-knows-how-many lost colonies from Earth's early days (or Vulcan/Andorian/etc) for some unsuspecting freighter to stumble upon.


Garth L. Getgen

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Wednesday, January 25, 2017 - 10:44 pm: Edit

APE: escort version of the CUT.

Just an opinion, but for pick up games having this as an option would be nice. The APE would be a less expensive option for a cheaper light escort.

Potential down side, might see F&E guys be split on this... as having an APE available is better than no escort at all.

Not sure what COMPOT will be but at a guess similar or less than a E3.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Saturday, January 28, 2017 - 02:02 pm: Edit

APO: Armed Priority Oiler.

Seems a little superfluous in peace time. Standard freighters would carry scheduled fuel deliveries. Might have a few for emergencies. Would it make sense as utility support vessel for Star bases? Available for emergency refueling of star ships on priority missions?

War time use to resupply isolated bases or colonies?

By Michael Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Saturday, January 28, 2017 - 05:30 pm: Edit

I would think a half sized pod, dedicated to refueling, would be a better deal for that rare need for emergency refueling. (heck a skid might be enough).

Park on at each Base/Battle Station and just have the closest theater transport or military freighter come by to tote it over yonder.

By wayne douglas power (Wayne) on Saturday, January 28, 2017 - 06:08 pm: Edit

APO: Armed Priority Operation.

Prime Team.

Crazy idea I know, I am remembering some RPG days when all the player characters traveled around in a modified cutter, going on missions, operating as a Prime Team.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Saturday, January 28, 2017 - 06:36 pm: Edit

Belly packs for APTs and FTs?