Yes, yet another photon torpedo modification.

Looking at the 'Great Photon Debate', I had an idea for improving photon-users' flexibility, without changing the average damage potential:


The Photon Magazine.

Loosely derived from stasis-box technology, this modification allows holding an armed torpedo, while arming a fresh torpedo in the tubes.

Usage: an armed photon torpedo may be transferred from the launcher to the magazine during Energy Allocation. The torpedo is held there and may be transferred back to the launcher, ready to fire, at any time, provided there is no torpedo already in the tube.

Limits: no more than one photon per launcher per turn may be fired, nor may they be fired at an interval of less than one quarter turn. Also, the magazine is always empty at the start of a scenario, regardless of weapon status.

Capacity: each magazine may hold a maximum of two armed torpedos.

Holding: it seems reasomable to require that holding costs still be paid for torpedos in the magazine.

Overall, this does not increase the total number of times photon torpedos are fired during the game, but does allow a Photon-armed vessel to defer firing during early turns to permit rapid fire later in the day.

I would assume that this refit would have a BPV cost per photon tube, and that it would have to be applied to all photons on a given vessel, or to none.


Of course, this may be a totally 'pie in the sky' concept (perhaps firing twice in successive turns would shatter the launcher); or it may be a modification only found in the 'threat file'.

edited message

I went away and thought about this some more: I think that Jessica Orsini proposed something very like this with her Thunderchild CL design. Jessica, I apologise for any inadvertent plagiarism.

At the moment, I'll leave this up in case anyone wants to discuss the concept.

SVC, you have my permission to kill this topic if you feel it is not needed.

By Jessica Orsini (Jessica) on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 09:51 am: Edit

"I went away and thought about this some more: I think that Jessica Orsini proposed something very like this with her Thunderchild CL design. Jessica, I apologise for any inadvertent plagiarism."

Not really. The idea behind the Thunderchild Armored Cruiser was that two photon generators were hooked up to a single photon tube, in an early effort to field a four-photon cruiser. Yours seems to be to have a single photon generator and tube, but allowing a generated torp to be loaded into the tube and held there while a second torp is armed in the generator. In function, I suppose that the two would be somewhat similar, except that the Thunderchild actually had additional photon boxes on the SSD, while yours would apparently not.

By Tony Barnes (Tonyb) on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 10:02 am: Edit

The problem I see with this is the Cheesy Factor...

Imagine a base assault, open map engagement, or any case where the fed can hang around a while away from the enemy. They stay away and charge up 3 turns of photons, charge in, and don't have the normal tradeoffs.

By Jeff Laikind (J_Laikind) on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 01:27 pm: Edit

Actually, something similar was proposed and outlawed many years ago.

The orginal Fed CVA had individual "Photon Freezers" for rearming each A-10. And they were all shown on the SSD. (Now, the photon freezers are part of the shuttle box in the ready rack.) Under the ship modification rules, people would add "Photon Freezers" to their photon torpedoes.

Alas, this was declared to be illegal.

By Charles E. Gray (Cgray45) on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 05:21 pm: Edit

How about explosion rules? You're holding a ready armed photon in a system that requires a transfer mechanism to the main firing unit-- ifyou take a hit, how about a 1 in 6 chance the torps go off in the tubes?
Also, another possibility would be giving up any possibility of overloads-- the tubes can't handle it with the modifications. Still powerful, but now less overwhelming.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 09:15 pm: Edit

I think WS-III should give the choice of either.

The Phottorp has been overloeds with 4 points of power on the previous turn.
Or you may hold the Phottorp as standard and complete.
Both the WS-III rules.
Or you may have one standard Phottorp in the freezer and an empty turbe to start arming a new phottorp in.

In this way the four points of warp power availible under WS-III could be placed in the freezer.


C.E.G.:

Why not just apply the rules of D12 coupled with the full warhead damage.
That'll learn ya not to hold Phottorps in the freezer.

By Andrew C. Cowling (Andrew) on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 11:07 pm: Edit

I wasn't thinking of allowing arming in the magazine, only in the launcher.

Let's see:

You arm the photon in the launcher. Next you transfer it to the magazine, still paying holding costs. Finally, at a subsequent point, you move it back to the (empty) launcher, ready to fire.

For example:

A Fed CA at WSIII has four standard photons armed, and transfers them to the magazine during EA on Turn 1. This requires 4 points of holding energy. It also begins arming 4 more torpedos during Turn 1 (8 more [warp] power needed). It cannot then fire photons this turn without first ejecting the torps it is currently arming.

In Turn 2 the CA completes arming the new torpedoes as prox photons (another total of 12 power including magazine hold costs). On T2 I25 the CA fires 3 prox photons at a Klingon D7. (Don't ask why only 3!) It may now reload the three empty tubes from their magazines, and have them available to fire on T3 I1 (and can overload them during EA, if required).

At the end of I32, Turn 3, the CA's Photon status is as follows: Tubes A, B and C each contain a standard photon, taken from the magazines; Tube D holds a proximity fused photon; and the magazine for Tube D holds a standard photon.

Question: is stacking the arming/holding costs sufficient? Do there need to be other penalties?

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 11:10 pm: Edit

You want to hear something funny? The original design of SFB had disruptors using ammo from a clip magazine, moving loaded arounds out of the chamber and back to the clip for later firing....

By Andrew C. Cowling (Andrew) on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 11:17 pm: Edit

Too much flexibility, perhaps?

By Jonathan McDermott (Caraig) on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 11:25 pm: Edit

In some sense, Steve, that can make sense, actually. Replace the 'disruptor clips' with fuel cells that hold fuel for the particle accellerators, some kind of explosive-power-release unit, and it could make some very wierd sort of sense. =)

Hmmm.. direct-fire, magazine-fed weapon. Probably been done several times over with Omega, at least.

By Dwight Lillibridge (Nostromo) on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 08:57 am: Edit

in traveller there is an energy feed system that uses fuel at the moment of firing, they are called HPG's. the fuel is burned at the moment of firing to produce the weapon effects, such as plasma or a stimulated gas feed laser.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 09:48 am: Edit

We dumped the disruptor clips to simplify the game. They had three or four kinds of ammo, each with a different table, and you had to shuffle to load just the right one for your shot. Finally decided that was too much bother.

By Alan Bloniarz (Madmax) on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 11:02 am: Edit

The concept is good, however, the result would be every game turns into 'run away for 6 turns then kick butt'.

By Jonathan McDermott (Caraig) on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 12:27 pm: Edit

SVC: Sounds intriguing all the same. I guess those rules are lost, though. Pity, I'd be curious as to what the different types of ammo there could be for disruptors. =)

By Andrew C. Cowling (Andrew) on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 05:50 pm: Edit

SVC: I thought about this some more last night, and came up with a possible negative.

Given that magazine-fed disruptors are an idea that has been around for ever, and that the concept has now been extended to photons: if this flies, how long could it be before magazine-fed plasma is added?

(Now there is, to my way of thinking, a scary thought. It could be just what the Romulans need to allow Galactic Domination.)

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Saturday, March 16, 2002 - 09:20 am: Edit

ACC: Just because the idea was considered (and rejected) 25 years ago, and has now come up again, doesn't mean that it's going anywhere.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Saturday, March 16, 2002 - 08:58 pm: Edit

Although...what was considered ( and rejected ) 25 years ago might make for a good CL artical about the tangential nature of game writting.
If coupled with other originally proposed and eliminated ideas.

Or at least I think a "things that almost were" artical would be a good read.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Tuesday, March 26, 2002 - 01:46 am: Edit

Magaine fed weapons. Perhaps 2X tech. Just to be really differant in that time someday when everything else is done.

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Monday, April 07, 2008 - 09:14 pm: Edit

Wow, I just found this old topic. Funny thing is a couple weeks ago I came across some old notes I had written up for "quick loading" or "hot-shot" photons.

The way it would have worked was:

Within four impulses after firing a photon, but not the same impulse nor into the next turn, one point of reserve warp is put into prep-charging the tube. During the allocation of the next turn, two points of warp power are added to the charge. During that turn, but no sooner than sixteen impulses since it fired last, one more point of reserve warp is added to the tube, which is then fired. Up to two more additional points or reserve warp power (in half-point increments) may also be added to overload the torp (increasing it form a standard 8-point warhead to a 9- to 12-point overloaded warhead). The reserve warp coud be noted during allocation, but doesn't actually get applied until during the turn; ergo, if the battery is destroyed or the power used for something else, the proceedure stops. If the last point of power isn't added to fire it, the trop reverts to a normally charged torp. The first point of reserve warp power is lost, but the two allocated points count as first-turn arming.

If completed as a "quick load", the photon will fire as per normal rules. However, the photon tube will overheat and be unusable for the remainder of the current turn plus three complete turns. Additionally, there is a two-in-six chance the tube will be destroyed for 1d6 worth of internal damage as follows: 1= the photon tube, 2&3= warp engine (player's option which), 4-6= random on DAC.

If the ship has Outstanding Crew and/or any of the following Legendary Officers: Weapons, Engineer, or Captain; the tube will only be off-line for two full turns, and will only explode on a one-in-six chance. A ship with Poor Crew cannot use this proceedure.

This is such an extreme-risk proceedure that it would only be attempted if the ship were (1) able to use other emergency proceedures (i.e., probes as weapons, etc) due to being crippled, (2) flying solo and outnumbered (by total BPV) by three-to-one odds, or (3) part of a two- or three-ship group that is outnumbered (by total BPV) by five-to-one odds.

SVC & SPP both shot the idea down back in '94. Based on this topic, it still doens't have a chance in heck of flying. Oh well.


Garth L. Getgen