We will have a preview of the Zosman's in CL50, part of the "Golden Issue" theme of "tons of cool stuff."

The thing is, there isn't much real data about them, so Petrick is crafting from faint threads of knowledge. These threads are that they live far off the right edge of the map in remote home planets. They operate as pirates all over Omega because of their "stealth field" which prevents anyone from tracking their strategic movement and makes it hard to find their hidden bases until you're very close. They have no new technology but have modules where they install power-and-weapon packages from a single empire. Like the Romulans (and unlike the Orions) they have "full volume ships protected by that stealth field" rather than ships designed to be thin and small and use passive (cost free stealth). Oh, branthodons ignore the stealth field.

We don't need any help in designing them and most of the decisions and SSDs have been made, but I have found a key point at which I'm not sure which way Steve Petrick should go, and that is the "stealth field."

It clearly is needed for strategic movement.

To my way of thinking, that's all it does. Once you get into tactical ranges (on the SFB map), it doesn't work well if at all. We don't really need a stealth field rule at all except that some obscure note in the timeline says that interceptors are easier to hide than gunboats (which does not -- strictly speaking -- require tactical rules) and that target illuminators have some interaction (which seems to indicate that we do need tactical on-map SFB rules). To my way of thinking the rule should say that the stealth field has no effect on people within 20 hexes shooting at you, only 21 hexes and beyond. Or maybe you can see the Zosman if his speed exceeds your range to his ship. this would so neuter the rule that nobody would use it, and simple is swell. I have come to love simple.

Petrick on the other hand proposes a two-page rules set which says that the thing costs like a cloak, and has the effect that the Zosman (with active stealth field) can only fire with passive weapons control and that shooting at the stealthy Zosman only works with passive fire control. If the Zosman swoops in with stealth active and un-stealths, he can't use active fire control for four impulses (standard SFB rule) but you can use active fire control to blast him immediately. His theory is that you guys WANT a challenging new system with good and bad aspects that would be FUN to fiddle with.

I am a river to my people so I'll give you 72 hours to comment on the subject before I decide to neuter the stealth field or let it fly. (Off-subject comments will be deleted without notice or apology.)

By Patrick H. Dillman (Patrick) on Sunday, March 01, 2015 - 06:26 pm: Edit

I like the idea of no affect if within 20 hexes. Keeps them from just being different flavored Romulans.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Sunday, March 01, 2015 - 06:50 pm: Edit

For my part, my main hope for the Zosman stealth field rules is that they would be "something different" from pre-existing stealthy systems for other empires (such as the cloak/mask/veil, the Orion stealth coatings, or the Jumokian distortion field generators), while doing so in a way that would work well both in SFB and (eventually) in FC.

On the one hand, SPP's version sounds like it might make things more interesting in SFB. Although I might have to wonder as to how one could eventually handle this in FC, where there is no concept of active versus passive fire control.

But on the other hand, SVC's notion would make it about as easy to incorporate into both game systems. The idea of tying the stealth field to a ship's speed could make it easier to disguise hidden bases also, since one might have to be almost running into one in order to find it.

(Perhaps the use of special sensors could adjust the range involved? That could put a premium on the use of scouts to root out Zosman operations - or as targets of assassination for the Marauders themselves.)

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To clarify, would there be other empires which would automatically "see through" a stealth field, along with the Branthodons?

Take the Alunda Host. The land-octopus Mirn species use a series of bio-engineered organic systems to interface with their "domesticated" Alunda host ships - yet a "wild" Alunda lacks the kind of innate intelligence which the Branthodons have to try and lobotomize out of the brains of their Dragonships.

Even in the case of Alunda "Sig-tech" (which they will eventually use in an attempt to counter their rivals' adoption of first-generation X-ships), the Sigvirion infection only applies to the biological control systems the Mirn created to interface with the Alunda host ship. The Sig virus cannot assimilate an Alunda directly.

Would this mean that Alunda Host ships would be no better than most "metal-hull" empires (like the Vari or Hivers) at unpicking Zosman stealth fields - or is there still enough there in the "wild" Alunda biology to help them in this case?

By A. David Merritt (Adm) on Sunday, March 01, 2015 - 07:29 pm: Edit

I would prefer SPPs rules.

By Nick Blank (Nickgb) on Sunday, March 01, 2015 - 07:39 pm: Edit

I vote for SPPs rules.

By Gary Downing (Garydee) on Sunday, March 01, 2015 - 07:43 pm: Edit

I want SPP's rules

By Norman Dizon (Normandizon) on Sunday, March 01, 2015 - 08:11 pm: Edit

Historically, there are some important points to consider about the Zosman's "Stealth Field":

Y114...Maesrons discover the first of many Zosman bases, destroying it and several raiding ships that attempt to escape the area. In a gesture of peace to the Probr, with whom they now share a long border, they pass along information on how to locate the previously undetectable Zosman installations.

Y141...Maesrons make a new breakthrough enabling them to counter Zosman Stealth Fields and discover their bases. Maesons, momentarily at peace with all races except the Marauders, go on a "pirate hunt" and eliminate nearly all Zosman bases from their territory.

Y148...Zosmans make an improvement to their Stealth Field and begin a new wave of raiding and piracy.

Y186...Zosmans now observed to be operating as mercenaries for most of the races.

There are important conclusions that can be drawn from these Historical points:

1) In Y114, the Maesrons gave the Probr information on how to locate previously undetectable Zosman installations. This seems to contradict the idea that "you just get close and see them." If the Stealth Field can be penetrated by Passive Fire Control, then how were the hidden bases discovered and how was the information on how to discover them passed on to the Probr?

2) In Y141, a new breakthrough is discovered that enables the Maesrons to counter the Zosman's Stealth Field and discover their bases. Again, this seems to contradict the idea of "I see you at Close Range" and "I can shoot you with Passive Fire Control."

3) In Y148, the Zosmans make an improvement to their Stealth Field. Since it leads to a new wave of raiding and piracy, it seems like a pretty significant improvement. But most importantly, this tells me that there was a Previous Version of the Stealth Field and a New, Improved Version of the Stealth Field.

4) The note in Y186 is important because the Zosmans were not just pirates. They had dealings with various Omega empires and even hired out their services to them.

It is my opinion that Bruce Graw did indeed intend for the Zosman Stealth Field to have real Tactical Applications for Star Fleet Battles. While the Stealth Field certainly had Strategic Uses, I don't believe the original intention was solely Strategic.

The idea of firing under Passive Control while using the Stealth Field is interesting. But I think the original idea for the Stealth Field would have been something different. I agree with Gary that it would have been something unlike any other existing Stealth technology.

However, such a new Stealth Field would need to be thoroughly playtested, as it would affect not only the Omega Sector, but the Alpha Sector as well. After all, anyone can play a Duel and pick out an Alpha Sector empire and fight against the Zosman Marauders.

Lastly, there is an important note in Captain's Log #36 that is worth examining. Bruce Graw states:

"A given Zosman ship might have a number of modules, each containing technology from a different Omega Sector race."

To me, this would be an important point to be playtested. Having a single empire having access to multiple Omega technologies can easily become unbalancing, unless certain restrictions were imposed. However, only thorough playtesting would reveal what is "workable" and what is "not workable."

So what is the Best Solution? I don't know. SVC's idea is simple and avoids tampering with established rules. SPP's idea is interesting but may not exactly fit the Historical Stealth Field concept. Another idea could be developed for the Zosman Stealth Field, but this would require playtesting and with Captain's Log #50 right around the corner, probably isn't a possibility.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Sunday, March 01, 2015 - 08:34 pm: Edit

1. Because you have to get really close and space is really big. Locating a base is locating the area first and the zip code later.

2. Maybe not a problem. Again, "discovering bases" means being within a couple of hundred hexes and is irrelevant to SFB.

3. Easily handled later; we're doing the mainstream rules now.

4. Again, irrelevant to which way we go with the rules, and indeed, supports my version. Orion pirates work as mercenaries too.

Norman is welcome to his opinion which is no more or less valid than mine. Bruce said that Zosmans would copy everybody's weapons. The Orions are workable and the Zosman's won't be difficult.

By Norman Dizon (Normandizon) on Sunday, March 01, 2015 - 08:40 pm: Edit

Thanks for the quick reply SVC. I'm sure the Zosmans will turn out great. I vote for your version of the Stealth Field.

By Nick Samaras (Koogie) on Sunday, March 01, 2015 - 09:49 pm: Edit

The Orion's are generally limited in their weapon selections to mainly those empires they are operating within. Will the zosmans have a similar restriction?

By Glenn Hoepfner (Ikabar) on Sunday, March 01, 2015 - 10:02 pm: Edit

I like SVCs version just barely, very barely more than SPPs version. I could go with either one but the only thing I can't see right now is how SPPs version would be incorportated in FC (as Carney pointed out (above)).
If there's a solution already planned for adaption to FC, then its a straight 50/50 for me and that doesn't help you one iota.

By Troy J. Latta (Saaur) on Sunday, March 01, 2015 - 10:04 pm: Edit

I would prefer there to be some tactical ramifications to the stealth field. In our campaigns we mix strategic fluff into our tactical scenarios all the time but I understand we're a minority in that regard.
Why mention a stealth field at all unless it has some effect on gameplay?

By Ken Rodeghero (Ken_Rodeghero) on Sunday, March 01, 2015 - 10:39 pm: Edit

I vote for SPP's version.

By Kenneth Jones (Kludge) on Sunday, March 01, 2015 - 11:12 pm: Edit

SVC's seems easiest.

Ideally I would like strategic cloaks with tactical level D17 Tactical Intelligence.

It's been a long time since I looked at those rules But some stealth IE range reduction for sensing techniques might be simple to adopt.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Sunday, March 01, 2015 - 11:34 pm: Edit

Could one way of handling the concept of Zosman stealth field advancement be to separate its effectiveness at operational and strategic movement levels?

One could have it that the original stealth field worked, and continues to work, when it comes to hiding operational movement (or "cruising" speed, as shown here). But the higher warp energy output of strategic ("dash") warp speeds might have run the risk of exposure.

Perhaps the Mæsron breakthrough of Y141 was in this area. With a few decades' worth of data reports to analyze since the first known Zosman activities in Mæsron space, enough ion trails or sensor fragments may have been left behind by Zosman ships using "dash" warp movement for the Mæsrons to track the ships back to their hidden network of bases, leaving them more exposed to the kind of large-scale anti-piracy operations which the Pax Mæsra afforded the Alliance (or Empire) the luxury of undertaking.

Fast forward to Y148, by which time the Zosmans may have figured out how to more effectively sheath "dash" warp movement. This would allow them to act with a freer hand across the "on-map" Omega Octant - a task made easier by the Mæsron Civil War and Collapse.

That might be a way of keeping the same system in place at a tactical level (at least prior to the potential onset of Zosman X-ships), but without requiring any new rules for the likes of SFB or FC to have to worry about.

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Sunday, March 01, 2015 - 11:40 pm: Edit

Is it a stealth field that hides the ship, or is it simply a different type of FTL drive that doesn't give off the same Warp signature that everyone else's ships do, and there is no good method to track it will due to the physics involved???

If so, that would lead more towards SVC's idea that it's good for strategic distances only and of little impact at tactical ranges.


Garth L. Getgen

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Sunday, March 01, 2015 - 11:55 pm: Edit

SPP's version is what I prefer.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Monday, March 02, 2015 - 12:16 am: Edit

My assumption is that availability drives Orion weapons limits and the same thing drives Zosman regional limits.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Monday, March 02, 2015 - 06:55 am: Edit

Add one more vote to the SPP tally, my only concern is the "glass jaw" aspect.

If the Zosman Raiders have to fight using passive fire control system, they have to get very close to inflict damage which might make them too vulnerable to certain weapons systems like ESG, Tholian Web, Mines or anything that affects everything in a hex (such as mine detonations).

By Nick Samaras (Koogie) on Monday, March 02, 2015 - 01:03 pm: Edit

SPP version for me

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Monday, March 02, 2015 - 02:23 pm: Edit

I like SVCs version except I'd like to see a a midrange half effect so there isn't an all or nothing border. Say 20 to 15 there is a -2 to hit.

This would mean they'd start warming up active fire control in this range for either an active strike or a feint to provoke a midrange gamble shot out of the opponent.

At long range their can be tracked, right? How about only if their weapons are armed (and with PFC)?

Anyway, I'm not really a Omega guy so I'll leave it at that.

By Charles Chapel (Ctchapel) on Monday, March 02, 2015 - 07:43 pm: Edit

I like simple, as there is less "lawyering" involved. Put me on SVC's page and I agree with Loren.

By Deirdre Brooks (Deirdrebrooks) on Tuesday, March 03, 2015 - 08:04 am: Edit

I haven't played in a long time, so I might be hopelessly optimistic. Even so, I like Petrick's idea.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Tuesday, March 03, 2015 - 11:51 am: Edit

We're going with Petrick's version.

I didn't count the votes of the guys from "that other department" who wanted the simple version so they could claim the two pages for more of their stuff.

By Guillaume Williams (Uioor1) on Saturday, April 04, 2015 - 08:03 pm: Edit

Now that Captain's Log #50 is out has anyone tried the Zozmans yet?