Peter,

OK, I'll ditch the -1 die roll for the Drex.

I do think the Alunda PCG should have a cap though. It's a marginally useful device at best with a high power cost.

I would like to see it get some use though, because it's an Alunda kinda thing to use.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Monday, October 17, 2016 - 10:08 am: Edit

>>OK, I'll ditch the -1 die roll for the Drex. >>

That s probably the best way to try and balance the ship. If it keeps all the rest of the Super Computer benefits (movement precedence, HETs, whatever), it still gets to be a super computer ship. But that -1 to hit all the time seems like it would make it really difficult to make a viable, even ship out of. At least in the non tournament game, you can nullify the -1 to hit with EW, and the Drex are historically low on power, meaning it is probably a balanced concept. But in the tournament game, you can't use EW to try and balance that out.

>>I do think the Alunda PCG should have a cap though. It's a marginally useful device at best with a high power cost.>>

Seems reasonable. I don't know that it is worth trying to get rules changed, and if this doesn't pass muster, it isn't that big of a deal. In the very small number of circumstances where the PCG can be useful, the Alunda copious reserve power can make it happen. And I think the one time I actually used it in a tournament game, it was over a turn break so I allocated 3 power to make a 4 hex cloud and backed into it. Which worked fine and didn't require holding the thing.

By Barry Kirk (Barrykirk) on Thursday, November 17, 2016 - 04:49 am: Edit

Looked over the Alunda rules for the PCG. Let's put a five point cap in it.

Try that out in the next playtest game we have.

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandor) on Monday, April 24, 2017 - 08:34 pm: Edit

Just played a Tournament game vs Matt. Using the Peladine TC vs the Frax TC. I used the scatter pack and drone upgrades.

Turn 1 I launched a enveloping G torp and the scatter pack loaded with 5 drones. he fired the range 15 disr shot missing with 3 of 4. My brick would have taken 9 so was not worried. He ran up into the corner and along the wall. End of turn 2 i got to close and took some internals and lost my front shield.

Turn 3 i closed thinking about a anchor. very bad move as he used a WW and then fired under WW and plastered me i did not fire. I did do some latter damage but the battle was over.

First turn was good latter turns i played badly. I do not think the ship needs a scatter pack. The 2 points for drone upgrades is a good thing as well as being able to get a pair of type IVs.

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandor) on Monday, May 29, 2017 - 05:17 pm: Edit

played a second game vs Matt with the Peladine TC vs the Frax TC.

Did not use the scatter pack are drone upgrades.

Turn 1 I moved 17 with a 13 point brick on my no2 shield. he moved slow then fast about mid turn. i launched a couple of drones early. Then launched plasma about Mid turn as he came in. I side slipped and turned across his T his no 1 my no 2. His disrupt-er fire was horrible hitting 1 out of 4. Did not even dent my brick.
my plasma hit near the end of the turn doing some shield damg.

Turn 2 I turned off keeping out of overload range. Fired a F torp to keep him off. I think I should have fired a F torp and g torp turn 1 then could have done the same turn 2.

Turn 3 i screwed up. Thought he would be overloading and going slow. So turned about knowing i could fast load the G torps as F torps off batty. He was to fast and caught my no 1 shield. dropping it with phaser. I should have fired the other side F and fast loads sooner.

As is i lost my front shield and just manged to mangle his no 6. He had not loaded Disr. then used btty to put them thru my front shield.

game over turn 3. Still I do not think it was the ship. My play was sub par. The Frax is tough for all plasma Ships.

I would like some drone points. So i could get a pair of speed 32 drones. As well as a pair of type IVs

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Monday, May 29, 2017 - 05:50 pm: Edit

The Peladine should, by default, be able to have 2 type IV drones (the rules on drones are "all ships with drones can swap 2xI for a IV, twice; the Kzinti can do this 3 times").

It does not, by default, get a SP, as the Kzinti and Klingon only get them by virtue of special rules about their TCs. Which is probably for the best.

Having played the Peladine a bunch, here are my thoughts on it:

I think it is kind of hopeless from the get go.

As it stands, it has 2xG torp, 2xF torp, 9xP2, 2xP1, 2x drone.

The G torp lacks hitting power and distance to either scare anyone away or provide serious hitting power. The P2s can't hurt anyone outside of R3. The drone racks are better than nothing, but just make the ship very vulnerable to damage (as it loses a plasma *and* a drone on a given volley of internals). As such, it really can only pose a threat as an anchor ship, which it is good at doing, as it is only ever gonna be paying 2 power (to hold the 2xG torps) on a given attack turn, so can really have a good tractor. But as everyone knows that is all it can do, they can respond appropriately, and make it really hard to anchor them (i.e. anchoring someone is a good way to win, but to really pull it off, you need to surprise them; if they see it coming, it is really easy to prevent).

I don't know what the way to fix the ship is. You can't just upgrade the plasma G's to S torps, as then, well, it is just a Gorn with worse phasers and a couple drone racks (and probably too good...). Adding a SP just makes the ship even more of an anchor threat. Upping a bunch of the P2s to P1s might make it very strong, but possibly too strong, but is also completely non historic.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Monday, May 29, 2017 - 06:41 pm: Edit

With the Zosman update file from Captain's Log #52 in mind, I was wondering if it might be worth taking a second look at the Zosman heavy cruiser from Captain's Log #50, to see whether or not a potential playtest TC could be made out of it.

As noted in CL52, there is a distinction between the "at-home" Zosman forces based over in the Phi Sector and the various Marauder cells operating across the "on-map" Omega Octant. The "at-home" Zosmans rely mainly on Mæsron-sourced weapon types; there are rules in place governing the "primary", "secondary", and "tertiary" sources of weapons for a given Marauder cell.

For the purposes of playtesting, one could perhaps start by road-testing a would-be TCA with a choice of tachyon guns, tachyon missiles, and wide-angle phasers to start with - and, possibly, allowing some of its admin shuttles to be swapped out for shuttle bombs. (If one were to assume that whatever TM options were allowed for a Mæsron tournament cruiser would also apply to the Zosman ship, so in turn could any would-be shuttle bomb rules here apply also to a potential FRA tournament ship.)

Gradually, one could then try out a given "primary" loadout at a time, but perhaps avoid any "secondary" or "tertiary" options for a while. So, for example, if one wanted to try out a Trobrin-sourced weapon suite, one might try to avoid mixing in any non-Trobrin weapons, or at least not right away.

Over time, as a better sense emerges of how well (or not) the base hull works in a tournament context, one could then consider whether or not to open the keys to the "secondary" and/or "tertiary" weapon drawers.

This might be a different approach to that taken by the Orions, but may be somewhat easier to work into an "all-Omega" tournament setup.

Although, I'm not sure how one ought to handle the playtest Stealth field rules. If this system was to be allowed, should it have the same sort of limitations as the cloak; or would it be necessary to bar the Stealth field from being used in tournament play outright?

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandor) on Monday, May 29, 2017 - 06:54 pm: Edit

I do not think it is hopeless. I do agree a scatter pack is to much. A pair of speed 32 drones would help the G torps at longer range. As they must shoot some phasers at the drones.

You do not have to anchor just do a overrun. All those phasers at range 1 are 0. All that tractor power can make a good brick instead. The drones and plasma either make him run or use up phasers not firing at the ship. It is getting there before it hurts you.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Monday, May 29, 2017 - 11:40 pm: Edit

Maybegive the f torps psuedo-torpedoes?

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Tuesday, May 30, 2017 - 12:21 pm: Edit

G torps just don't have the legs to keep folks far enough away--they work on the ISC 'cause there is also the PPD behind them, so if you just stay away from the ISC, he PPDs you to death, and if you close in to mug them, you have to go through 60+ points of plasma.

With the Peladine, you are just going to fight it at whatever range is best for you (4+), where the P2s are mostly harmless, and the G torps only make you run for half the time to run them out to nothing.

Pseudo F's might help? I mean, at least that is a minor, incremental upgrade.

Like, the big issue is that P2s are bad, even if you have 9 of them, and keeping the ship with a mostly historical armament means having to juggle plasmas and drones, and again, if it had 2xS torps (and then everything else), it would likely be a monster, but with 2xG torps, it is anemic and needs to get really close to hurt anyone.

By Andrew J Koch (Droid) on Tuesday, May 30, 2017 - 01:09 pm: Edit

Why would 2 S torps make it a monster?

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Tuesday, May 30, 2017 - 01:11 pm: Edit

It would be Gorn like with drone racks.

By Andrew J Koch (Droid) on Tuesday, May 30, 2017 - 01:28 pm: Edit

Why would 2 S torps make it a monster?

By Andrew J Koch (Droid) on Tuesday, May 30, 2017 - 01:28 pm: Edit

and phaser 2s

By Andrew J Koch (Droid) on Tuesday, May 30, 2017 - 01:29 pm: Edit

apparently I've lost any posting skills I may have had

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Tuesday, May 30, 2017 - 04:21 pm: Edit

Yeah, I think it having 2xS torp, 2xF torp, 2x drone racks, 9xP2, 2xP1, 14x C Hull would make it kind of terrifying. I mean, yeah, the P2s still suck, but at least with S torps, it can play enveloper games and then when it goes in for an anchor, it can really mess you up.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Tuesday, May 30, 2017 - 04:32 pm: Edit

I'd consider doing something non-standard - like giving it 2 D torp racks instead of F torps. But that might make it too tough on D&D or the Hydran.

Or give it 1*F torp. Who cares if it's "off balance."

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandor) on Tuesday, May 30, 2017 - 05:24 pm: Edit

The S torps would make it to powerful i have to agree there. The Two plasma G do not have the range of the S. One must get closer for them to hit. Plasma S can be fired to hit some one trying to reach range 15 on your plasma ship. Envelopers are best for that attack. A G-Torp has to get a ship entering range 8. Overload range... and that will still not insure a hit. I forget sometimes about the Pseudo rules for tournament games.

The Peladine is a short range ship. Think about a fusion only Hydran ship with no fighters. How do you get in range with out being beat to a pulp first. The scatter pack might help trap a ship into a corner.. along with Pseudo torps.

The King Eagle is just as bad. It of course has the cloak and The R torp can hit you at range 20 plus and still hurt.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Tuesday, May 30, 2017 - 05:37 pm: Edit

Another possible fix is to give the Peladine G torps, but also give it fakes for two F torps. That would help out quite a bit.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Tuesday, May 30, 2017 - 06:10 pm: Edit

I said that already Ted!

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandor) on Tuesday, May 30, 2017 - 09:22 pm: Edit

Ok sitting in the tub looking at SSD,s. What a life. The Peladine CAT is based on the CA with parts of the + refit. With the turreted PH-1 extra shields and 2 B drone racks. With out the 2 extra warp and the plasma arcs are upgraded but the G torps are not replaced. It says nothing about stasis boxes for the F torps.

A lot of Tournament cruisers are based on the CC. I propose using the CC with out the plus refit. Power remains the same. (there could be 6 btty as the CC has are 5 as all TC,s have) Drop 2 shuttles again a TC thing every one has 4 shuttles. Phaser suit is the same other then the 2 PH-1 are RX PH-3. Add the Flag Bridge this is great as the Peladine is low on bridge any way. The CC has 2 Type A drone racks with out the + refit. Leave them that way. The plasma arcs should be FA for the 2 G torps and F torps RF-R and LF-L. With out Stasis boxes and no pseudos. I would give it the + refit shields only to keep it even with the rest of the TC shields. Then allow the scatter pack and 2 type 1 drones for 1 type IV twice.

Playing the unrefitted ships in Matts campaign. I found that using a drone wave to restrict the other ships movement. Then coming in the other way with the ships allows the plasma are drones a chance to hit. On the tournament map it may even chase the other ship into a corner. Allowing the Peladine to get in close. Note that the Peladine could fast load both G torps and a pseudo G torp looks just like that out to 5 hexes. Also bolting the Torps inside range 5 1-4 hit every torp hitting for 10. average 20 to 30 damg.

Just some thoughts. Also the scatter pack could be used as a 3rd seeker wave to give time to reload the other torps.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Wednesday, May 31, 2017 - 08:42 am: Edit

>>With out Stasis boxes and no pseudos.>>

I'm unclear on what you mean by "without stasis boxes".

By wayne douglas power (Wayne) on Wednesday, May 31, 2017 - 08:50 am: Edit

I think Gregory means Plasma-F stasis boxes (FP2.41), (you may need to pay one point for holding the plasma-F).

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Wednesday, May 31, 2017 - 10:14 am: Edit

---

Quote:

I said that already Ted!

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By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Wednesday, May 31, 2017 - 10:21 am: Edit

And to Ted Fay, who jumps into conversation mid-stream, we give to him...


a boot to the head!

(CLUNK!)