In Captain's Log #48 there is a Tholian "Pocket Battleship". The description states that the ship was intended as a "heavy defensive cruiser". But only one was ever built, and it apparently spent a good chunk of its service life as a "hollow shell", lacking most of its weapons.

It is well established that the Tholians (in this galaxy) had a lot of trouble building larger hulls. So it's worth considering why the ship was basically regarded as a failure and no subsequent follow-on hulls were ever built.

The ship used 4 of the "hard to build and maintain" destroyer engines. But those engines were clearly not prohibitively difficult to build and maintain. The Tholian DD has a YIS of Y115 and was kept in production through the General War at least. Indeed, the advanced tech version of those engines, for the DDX, were presumably even harder to build. The Tholians obviously considered the superior power of the engines to be worth the extra trouble. Building more such ships might reduce the number of DDs by 2 per PBB. But to quote from (R7.60) Neo-Tholian Forces (page 27 of Module C2 rulebook), "There may have been some smaller units, but these were scrapped to bring the heavy ships up to full capabilities. The Tholians reasoned that they had more than enough small units, but needed heavy ships desperately." The fact that building additional PBBs could reduce the number of DDs by 2 per PBB would not, in and of itself, justify only producing one. They could build either a single PBB or 2 DDs depending on the current strategic need, which might change from year to year.

A more plausible reason for the ship being considered a failure is the weapons load. Why did the ship spend a good chunk of its lifetime as a "hollow shell"? There has never previously been any indication that the Tholians had difficulty building adequate numbers of disruptors for their needs (unlike web casters). But it is highly plausible, given the description of the PBB, that they had extreme difficulty fitting that many disruptors into a hull that size. And unlike the Romulans, the Tholians were not used to supporting ships that suffered from shock. (In fact the PBB description suggests that shock damage might have caused or at least contributed to its destruction.) So based on the information ADB has so far provided, the weapons load is the most probable reason that the ship was regarded as a failure.

So I propose that, after considering the problems with the PBB but desiring to produce more powerful (non-X) cruisers, the Tholians built a few "PBC Pocket Battlecruisers". A PBC is as follows:

Delete 2 disruptors but upgrade the phaser-3s to phaser-1s. The ship no longer suffers shock. Delete the external fighter bays.

The PBC has 4 disruptors and 9 phaser-1s, compared to 6 disruptors, 7 phaser-1s, and 2 phaser-3s for the PBB. The PBB has more raw firepower but the PBC has no limitations on using the weapons it has and, significantly for a ship intended as a "heavy defensive cruiser", is better at fighting behind web. The external fighter bays are deleted as an economy measure since they are almost extraneous given the 6 PFs the ship can carry (though as casual PF tender rather than a true PF tender). There could of course be a photon torpedo version. Convert the 4 disruptors to FA photon torpedos and convert all APR to AWR, as on the CW-to-CWP conversion.

Could there be an X-tech version? Probably not. There are X-tech War Cruisers (though they have to be built from the ground up, not converted from existing hulls) but there are no X-dreadnoughts (other than the Jindarian asteroid-ship X-dreadnoughts). I suggest that, given the amount of weapons and power relative to the hull size (even in the "downgraded" PBC), the ship be treated as a dreadnought for X-tech. The phasers, APR (or AWR), batteries, and shields can receive the XP upgrade (within the limitations of the hull size). But there no X-tech PBCs and no XP conversions to the heavy weapons. Rather, the ship becomes the Tholian's primary "non-X" heavy cruiser until such time as the entire warship production is shifted to X-ships. It should also be noted that the ship is not a flagship. Its CR is only 6, the same as the CW from which it is derived. The standard-tech fleets would still be commanded by DNs or CCs.

By Jeffrey George Anderson (Jeff) on Monday, April 23, 2018 - 02:07 am: Edit

Another interesting idea, Alan, but with regard to how useful she might be, I would reference two ships as comparisons...

The first would be the WYN BCS "Nancy." As is stated in the flavor text for her, she had a long history of engineering problems, including breaking down on her way to responding to an incursion. The flavor text for the Tholian Pocket Battleship very much reminded me of that.

For that reason, I would suspect that the one hull that was completed was used as a short ranged defensive unit; kept near some place where she could be easily repaired when her unreliability kicked in.

That brings up the other ship I couldn't help but think of; the Tholian Monitor. Powerful defensive unit that, like this ship, is kept on a short leash.

However with the Monitors being a (reasonable) success (at least with regards to what they were used for), having them available would probably keep the Tholians a little sour on the troublemaking PBB.

However, even outside the "Flavor Text," the modifications you're proposing for the ship immediately jump out at me as making her a good ship to have fighting behind a web; something any good Tholian base commander would LOVE to have nearby.

(hmmm... what about a variant of the PBB with all its Disruptors replaced with Phaser-1s...)

By Jon Murdock (Xenocide) on Monday, April 23, 2018 - 10:28 am: Edit

Other then the web tender I can't see the Tholians designing a lot of ships for web defense. Defensive web used well is already an "I win" button unless the enemy out-BPVs you by around a 5 to 1 margin.

Doing it with a large hull seems like a waste of resources.

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Monday, April 23, 2018 - 11:38 am: Edit

Jon,

But the PBB (and proposed PBC) don't just sit behind webs. They defend the Holdfast and might have to fight in "open space", or might participate in a base defense. But the Tholians can't afford to just cower behind webs and let the Klingons (or whoever) pick off isolated outposts and various freighters. (For one thing, the Tholians don't have enough ships to place a strong garrison at every webbed location.) So the Tholians need to have mobile forces that can patrol Holdfast space, and keep the "space lanes" open. They also need to be able to freely move through their own space to reinforce threatened planets or bases, since some will, at any given time, be lightly garrisoned. This may involve them in a fight that, while within the boundaries of Tholian space, is nevertheless dozens or even hundreds of light years from the nearest BATS. That is what the PBC would do, with its cruiser-level combat power plus 6 PFs. Given the amount of power and weaponry relative to hull size, it won't have long strategic range. But it is excellent for threatening invader forces within the confines of Holdfast space, or falling back behind the webs of a threatened base. And that's why the Tholians can't rely solely on things like Web Tenders and Monitors. Such ships are not satisfactory for defending Holdfast space, only for defending fixed points.

By Jon Murdock (Xenocide) on Monday, April 23, 2018 - 11:46 am: Edit

I was responding to JGA's comment about a WYN style defensive unit for web defense and not the original design.

Most Tholian battles are outside the web and most big Tholian ships need to be flagships for those kinds of battles.

In other words, we agree.

By Jeffrey George Anderson (Jeff) on Monday, April 23, 2018 - 04:52 pm: Edit

Jon, I was blathering on (and on and on) based on my perceptions of the "Hollow Shell" of a ship and, from there, my preconception of "Why" it would be so, particularly in the face of the Tholian need for heavy units.

The facts are that both the CL #48 PBB and Alan's PBC sound like the perfect ships (at least in theory) to fill JUST what the Tholians would be most interested in having.

With regard to my blathering about a heavy unit solely staying close to a base, instead of doing its job in open space, I combined my preconceptions for the ship being a drydock queen with the flavor text for a favorite Tholian cruiser variant, the CPA (R7.41, Module R6), and got on another one of my fixations.

Mine bad...