Subtopic	Posts		Updated
	Archive through November 15, 2002	25		11/15 06:03am
	Archive through November 19, 2002	25		02/15 04:42pm

The hit or miss quality of the Photon Torpedo is the flavor of the Feds. A good Captain must resist the temptations of the All or Nothing promise of the Photon. Feds Captains must accept and plan for their weapons missing. Like WWII Sub Captains. Their torpedos were tough weapons but if they fired and missed it would reviel their presence and may well be the end of them. So they had to plan for a miss.

The original Feds were not as multi-layered as other races but then they added the Drone racks. That drone rack and heavy phasers can give you an out in case you miss big, or they can add insult ot injury.

The Photon can also be likened to a Maul. It's big and scarry and really hard to swing, and if it hits you're done with that guy. Half of the value of a Photon Torpedo is when it hasn't been fired yet.

With the Feds, probably more than others but as with all others, you MUST play the WHOLE ship. And don't give in to temptation to use only 16 point OLs. Your opponent isn't going to end the game in one blast you don't have to either. Of course, one advantage the Fed has over most of the other races is that if the opponent makes a mistake, the Fed CAN end it in one blast.
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On a different note:

The under loading idea just seems to fit the way the photon works. It trades a plus for a minus. Adds a little more dimention and seems like something a Federation crew would come up with in the last heroic moments to save the ship. If it became a rule I doubt it would unbalance the game, it would spawn a few term papers and end any discussion that the Photon hasn't been changed since the beginning. It would NOT require any changes to any SSDs. You couldn't repair a Photon tube faster because it is the same weapon in all respects except for the power put into it. It would take, at most, one half page of rules (and more like one quarter).

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Tuesday, November 19, 2002 - 05:14 pm: Edit

I like the idea, myself, Loren...always have. It can be really usefull for X ships, too, with their fast load capability and extra power. You can zoom around at near top speed, firing underloaded photons every turn; you can literally nickle and dime someone to death like that. VERY usefull, IMHO.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Tuesday, November 19, 2002 - 10:14 pm: Edit

Thanks, I never did submit it. Perhaps I should.

By Clayton Krueger (Krieg) on Friday, February 15, 2013 - 02:31 pm: Edit

Standard photon upgrade proposal

I propose that standard photons can be loaded with a proximity detection device that will greatly enhance warhead performance. This does not affect overloads. Basically if a standard photon records a miss, treat some of those misses as near misses, and the warhead detonates, causing half (or 4 points) damage. For example, at range 2, a roll of 6 yields 4 points of damage; at range 3-4, rolls of 5 or 6 both yield 4 points of damage; at range 5-8, rolls of 4 or 5 are treated as proximity detonation, with 6 being a clean miss; the device is not effective from range 9-30.

This would make a standard photon more attractive to load and fight with, and perhaps reduce the Fed's dependence on the all or nothing overload. Also, by loading standards instead of overloads the power curve of the Fed is increased, enhancing speed, shield reinforcement and even drone defense with extra power for tractors and suicide shuttles.

By Ed Crutchfield (Librarian101) on Friday, February 15, 2013 - 04:42 pm: Edit

Loren, did you look at the heavy and light photon rules in P6 I think it was

By Ed Crutchfield (Librarian101) on Friday, February 15, 2013 - 05:18 pm: Edit

Clayton, Ok if you can do it with a Photon ,why not a disruptor or hellbore or any direct fire weapon. I think Photons are fine and I have used them longer than many have played the game. I do admit I like the overload, like Loren said you lean to accept that they will miss. They are not easy to use, and force you to develop you tactics. The weapons are what they are how you decide to use them is what counts.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Friday, February 15, 2013 - 05:26 pm: Edit

Ed:

There are "historical" rules for light and heavy photons in Module Omega 3 (and the Omega Master Rulebook) for use by the Federal Republic of Aurora. (By and large, the FRA puts lights on its SC4 ships, a mix of lights and standards on its SC3 hulls, and a combination of standard and heavy photons on its SC2 units.)

For what it's worth, I would prefer that lights and heavies stay there, as a means of helping to distinguish Auroran fleets from their counterparts back in the Federation.

By Clayton Krueger (Krieg) on Friday, February 15, 2013 - 06:37 pm: Edit

Ed,

First, the photon already has a proximity fuse. As far as I know, the other direct fire weapons do not. Second, the photon torpedo is a 3 dimensional object made of matter, or at least it's represented that way on the TV shows and in the movies. I'm not sure, but the other weapons seem to be energy pulses, waves or beams. A physical object should be able to contain sophisticated guiding/detection systems, especially in the 23rd century. In WWII, we develop a short wave radar detection system to detonate our anti aircraft rounds, greatly increasing their efficiency.

But, alas, I agree that "the weapons are what they are how you decide to use them is what counts". Nothing will come of this discussion, but sometimes its interesting to pop ideas out there and see what kind of feedback I get.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Friday, February 15, 2013 - 07:05 pm: Edit

Barring a radical revision to the game in a new version of SFB I don't see any changes to photon torpedoes happening until X2, if then.

By Terry O'Carroll (Terryoc) on Friday, February 15, 2013 - 07:22 pm: Edit

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Quote:

A physical object should be able to contain sophisticated guiding/detection systems, especially in the 23rd century.

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By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Friday, February 15, 2013 - 07:29 pm: Edit

There are other direct-fire weapons which assume the presence of a physical warhead, but most of those assume that the propulsive force propelling the object is coming from the launcher (as opposed to coming from the warhead itself, such as with a drone or plasma torpedo). Some such weapons allow for last-minute course corrections, but I don't get the impression that a photon torpedo (in its SFU incarnation) has that kind of flexibility. While it has the ability to adjust its detection radius (as shown by the pre-existing proximity fuse) there doesn't seem to be much that allows the torpedo itself to adjust its own flight path.

But even if it was technically possible to engineer a new type of photon warhead which allowed it to made mid-flight course corrections, I'm not sure that it would be that good an idea to do so from a game balance perspective; the weapon (to include its light and heavy counterparts) seems to be effective enough already.

(Plus, the photon is already at an advantage in SFB; photons in FC or ACtA:SF have no proximity modes, so photon-armed ships in those game systems have to make do without that option.)

By Ed Crutchfield (Librarian101) on Friday, February 15, 2013 - 07:44 pm: Edit

Yes it does already have one, that is based on the standard, note E4.33 in that the damage is based more on the distance from the target that it detonates than a reduced warhead. the proposal sound like a disruptor if you note the different damage amounts at the different ranges.

As a naval wargamer I am very familiar with the proximity fuse used in World War II.

Thanks Gary, I knew it was in P6, but since I dont play Omega I di not know it was used in its other formats there.

By Reid Hupach (Gwbison) on Friday, February 15, 2013 - 07:54 pm: Edit

seems if I recall correctly, the first encounter with a romulan the enterprize smoked it out using proximty PHASERS which has never been added to the game

By Ed Crutchfield (Librarian101) on Friday, February 15, 2013 - 08:37 pm: Edit

Reid it was a proximity phaser fired by sensors and it was called a Traverse pattern. Checked the script reprint.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Friday, February 15, 2013 - 09:00 pm: Edit

Since Balance of Terror was the first starship combat ever in Trek and the "phaser" effect used was closer to photon torps than the phaser effect, most fans simply retcon "prox photon" in for "prox phaser".

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Friday, February 15, 2013 - 10:01 pm: Edit

Wow. Way to resurect an ancient thread. For some reason I thought I first started with the BBS in 2003 (a player since 1979) but I guess it was the summer of 2002.
So what do you know, it has been ten years working with ADB.

By Reid Hupach (Gwbison) on Friday, February 15, 2013 - 10:34 pm: Edit

just adding the point to the conversation

By Jim Dauphinais (Jimdauphinais) on Saturday, February 16, 2013 - 08:17 pm: Edit

The special effect used for proximity phasers was the same later used for photon torpedoes. Hence, proximity phasers became proximity photons.

Balance of Terror was the very first starship combat episode of Star Trek. At that point in the series we had not even seen the Klingons yet.