Archive through November 05, 2019
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Star Fleet Battles: General Tactics Discussion:
Gorn Tactics:
Archive through November 05, 2019
If you are on a floating map, disengagement is your best option.
Plasma vs direct-fire is always advantaged in favor of direct-fire on a floater map, unless you happen to be fighting fusion-only Hydrans.
Yep, floating map. This was a pick up game and we sort of picked fleets without knowing what races our opponents were.
Hint for the future: If you know it's a floating map, don't pick Gorn. Selty or even Fed would be a better choice. Klink can be fun if you concentrate on disruptors instead of drones. Honestly, Lyran was probably the best you could hope for in a direct-fire race, since with the ESGs they sometimes want to get close. But with those ships, he has no reason to.
Well, you are stuck with Gorns on a floating map vs someone with disruptors. And he has a much better fleet than you (in terms of ability to do things). That is a recipe for failure.
That being said, if you don't want to just call it a day, launch a bunch of plasma to make him turn off, go out to R50, and continue the fight from there. His disruptors can't shoot you. You have not a horrible number of P1's relative to his. Just plink with P1s over and over again at R50 until you both get bored and go home.
Then next time, don't play on an open map. Or do play on an open map, and pick forces knowing this is the case.
Plasma doesn't fight in open space. Open space is just what they travel through to get to your bases and planets. House rule to use is if the enemy flies of your side of the map by distance (not possible to keep both of you on the map at the same time) they win as you allowed them to get past your interception fleet and they make it to your bases/planets.
You'll probably lose. However, your best chance for an outright victory (and more fun than range 50 plinking) is thus:
Plot moderate speed with high EW. Use ECM plasma to help your EW situation. Hopefully arrange to be doing erratic maneuvers at the first pass. Time things so that the range 15 engagement happens near the end of the turn. At the beginning of the turn be more than range 25. He can and will hurt you at range 20, so you want to start the turn at 26+ and end the turn inside range 15.
Accept the fact that he will seriously hurt one of your ships even with the EW. Keep going. Pray.
You have launched no plasma.
Once you are inside his sweet fighting zone of range 15 you have a chance. Increase your speed, put some power into tractor, and charge. •••• the ESGs, full speed ahead!!!! Go for the anchor. Sure, he'll hurt you again on the way in but even a few torpedoes can ruin his whole day if you manage to anchor.
If you don't or can't anchor him, bolt everything at a single ship and pray. You should hurt him badly.
If things don't work out, then run and don't feel bad because you were at a severe disadvantage in the first place. If things do work out then you might still be able to pull a win out of it!
And it involves more space carnage than range 50 plinking and it's more "Gornly" than running away. 
Ted wrote:
>>And it involves more space carnage than range 50 plinking and it's more "Gornly" than running away.>>
It certainly is, but I don't think he'll even be able to catch the Lyrans if they Lyrans don't want to be caught. The CW has, what, 34 power? It can turn on the ship, arm 4 standard disruptors, move speed 31 all turn *and* still have a point of power left over. I suspect that the BCs can do even better, power wise. They can dip in and out of FA all day long and never get closer than R12 or so if they want R15 disruptor shots.
Not my experience, Peter. The Gorns with high speed can press the issue. And if all he's firing is disrupters he won't do enough damage
I'm not seeing how on an open map against someone who is moving speed 31 you can press the issue such that you get inside of R12.
The Lyrans can fire phasers if they want to fire every other turn, which works too--move speed 31, arm standards, get to R15, fire all disruptors and facing phasers, turn off, spend the next turn moving speed 31 and reloading phasers, spend the turn after that firing all phasers and disruptors.
The Gorns have a bit more power to work with (although not necessarily the ships listed above--the CL+ and DD+ aren't super power efficient) than the Lyrans due to not needing to do anything but hold a couple S torps. So if EW is in play, they can probably get a shift in their favor, but that is still a losing fight for the Gorns, assuming infinite time and patience.
I am dubious the Lyrans can actually move 31 and still dip in and out of FA arc, and that's based on my play experience in these fleet battles. Not with the Gorns moving in the high 20's or 31 themselves. I've never seen a D&D race actually keep this up for more than a few turns in actual battle myself, either as BP or as the disrupter race. Eventually the Gorn will get to you. The question is how much damage can the Lyran do before he gets there.
After the phasers are fired the Lyrans slow down.
What Ted said. Unless you are fighting a direct-fire fleet with 210 degree disruptor arcs (heheheh), sooner or later you will close the range if he keeps turning in to fire at you.
He does have 5 disruptors on 270 degree arcs + 3 FA +L and +3 FA+R disruptors. That's 8 disruptors on FX arcs.
I think chasing the Lyrans is a mistake. The Gorns need to be the ones being chased or let the Lyrans disengage if they don't want to turn and pursue the gorns.
Actually Ted if you are talking about the campaign as the fleet batles then I'll throw the following caveat in there.
In those particular battles my objective was to destroy ships while maintaining mine. A R15 shoot and scoot injures them slowly but due to our rpr rules injured doesn't really work.
I would think a R15 bolt shot would work as well ie bolt all there and then have the gorn turn and run. Yes you'll be losing shields during the run turns but with with around 41 damage a turn the ints shouldn't be too severe. Of course if you can bolt on the #5 or 3 shield after he turns away to run you could escape near scot free.
Either way the gorns are battling uphill either way. Instead of an open map using a double map allows the gorns to take some punishment on the way to cornering the lyrans.
With those ships the lyrans have like 13 p1's and 5 disr in a 270 degree arc so even chasing him he can do OK damage.
In the totally boring and not fun category of play. What you have to do is move the battle back outside the range of his disruptors (30 or 40) and turn it into a phaser 1 battle, where you will outnumber him.
Ted wrote:
>>I am dubious the Lyrans can actually move 31 and still dip in and out of FA arc, and that's based on my play experience in these fleet battles. Not with the Gorns moving in the high 20's or 31 themselves.>>
I mean, it certainly depends on what is happening on the map, but if both sides are moving 31 (which I think the Lyrans can do indefinitely if they don't arm disruptors on the turn after they fire the P1s--I can't remember what the BC+P looks like, but I'm pretty sure it can haul at 31 when either arming all disruptors as standards or arming phasers), I'm pretty sure that the Lyrans can dip into 15, turn off, run, rearm, dip back into 15, and do it again. Over and over again. I mean, yeah, you'll hit different shields each time, but after doing this 3 times, someone won't have any front shields anymore. Assuming, like, what, 12x disruptors and 16xP1 and no EW shift, that is 40 damage. An EW shift drops this considerably (I think the 40 damage becomes 26 with a shift of 1), but it is still, pretty much, free damage.
>>I've never seen a D&D race actually keep this up for more than a few turns in actual battle myself, either as BP or as the disrupter race.>>
Oh, sure. But this is a function of "I got bored 'cause this game is stupid" rather than "I can't do this forever". Which isn't a measure of the game mechanics. It is a measure of human endurance :-)
>> Eventually the Gorn will get to you. The question is how much damage can the Lyran do before he gets there.>>
I don't know that the Gorn will eventually get you if you are persistent. I mean, yeah, a really stupid, endless, boring game. But that is what you should get on an open map.
Gregg wrote:
>>In the totally boring and not fun category of play. What you have to do is move the battle back outside the range of his disruptors (30 or 40) and turn it into a phaser 1 battle, where you will outnumber him.>>
Heh. Already hit that a few posts up. The problem is that with the particular fleets mentioned (Gorn DN, CL, BDD, DD vs Lyran BC, BC, CW), I don't even think the Gorns outphaser the Lyrans...
Let's see, 2 Lyran BCB+p [44 power + 6 btty, 4 disr, 10 P-1 (2 P-3, 4 ESG)], plus CW [32 power + 3 btty, 3 disr, 4 P-1 (4 P-2, 2 P-3, 2 ESG)]
FA firepower = BC - 9 P-1 + 4 disr + CW - 4 P-1 + 3 disr. L/R arc = BC - 5 P-1, 2 disr, CW - 1 P-1, 1 disr.
vs
Gorn DN [58 poweer + 6 btty, R, 2 S, 10 P-1 (2 F, 2 P-3)], CL [29 power + 2 btty, 2 S, 4 P-1 (2 F, 2 P-3)], BDD [23 power + 2 btty, G, 4 P-1 (2 F, 2 P-3)], DDF [20 power + 2 btty, G, 3 P-1 (2 F, 2 P-3)]
FA firepower = DN - R, 2 S, 8 P-1, CL - 2 S, 4 P-1, BDD - G, 3 P-1, DDF - G, 3 P-1. L/R arc = DN S, 6 P-1, CL - S, 2 P-1, BDD = G, 3 P-1, DDF - G, 2 P-1.
The Lyrans have a phaser advantage (total - 24 to 21, FA - 22 to 18).
How is it possible to stay in the "Glory Zone" and keep the opponant ship in the Plasma tracking arc?
Peter, I don't think it's a matter of boredom, you physically can't keep dipping into FA and hit the Gorn if both fleets are 31. The Gorn *WILL* catch the Lyrans because the Lyrans have to cover more distance doing all that maneuvering.
Even with 270 degree arcs it may not be possible for more than half a dozen turns. Not if the Gorn matches speed and keeps on the Lyran's tail.
Going that speed, the Gorn's shields will be shredded by the time he gets there. Just nothing left for reinforcement. Full refits wouldn't even help. None of our refits add power, just weaponry.
..... and shields
If both sides move at 31 and the Lyrans use disruptors the Gorns will eventually catch up - slowly if the Lyrans stick to the FX disruptors, fairly fast if the Lyrans try to use the FA ones as well.
Presuming the Lyrans take the free shots and run it becomes a long chase. One of the key statistics for this sort of battle is each ships available power at top speed (I call this AP31). Another is the number of phasers available - rear on the disruptor race, forward on the plasma.
Those Lyran BC's have scads of power but few rear phasers. The Gorns have a reasonable forward phaser array but limited power. Given infinite time and player patience Lyran phaser fire will force the Gorns to break off pursuit, allowing the Lyrans the space needed for another Disruptor shot. The Gorn player would probably be able to invoke Stalemate before then since the squadrons aren't large enough to punch through shields quickly. I presume you're not using EW - if you are it gets even harder for the Gorns as the BC's can better afford EW than the smaller Gorns. Passive fire control by the Gorns (for the free ECM) may help a little.
In a standalone game saying 'you win, now let's swap sides and then agree never to do this again' works. In campaigns players tend to be less willing to deliberately play badly (I call it badly since few real captains would risk defeat just because a winning strategy was boring) and avoiding this situation should be addressed in the campaign rules.
Plasma Vs Disrupters on a open map. Yes it sucks for the plasma ship.
First ECM is your best friend. Use passive fire control for the larger ships and EM for the smaller ones. 2 points and 4 points from a natural source. Always if playing Plasma on a open map buy a scout. Use a ECP 3 more ecm. Before sabot can not change speed but you will only do that once you get close and can charge. With out scouts you can have 4-6 points generated by the ship. 2 from passive fire control or 4 from EM. Plus 3 from the ecp total 9-11 or 11-13. With out a scout he has 6eccm unless he uses a MRS shuttle (speed 8). a minimum of a 1 shift more likely a 2 shift. If the Disrupter ship wants to keep speed even more of a shift.
Next go slow speed 15 are 14 and move on the oblique shield 6 are 2 facing him. Reinforce that shield. Launch plasma to meet him at range 15 depending on his closing speed. You can dance like that until your shields get weak then run away.
Mind you once he starts putting 6 points into eccm slowing him down and moves into the range 15 bracket. When he turns in to shoot with his Disr. Then burn the reserve warp and charge him are during the turn bracket. The trick is to rotate your heavy plasma so you have some ready every turn and plus your plasma Fs. Mind you your longer range plasma may chew up his facing shields as well.
I've got 300 points, basic and advanced missions (no commander level rules, no modules), fixed map. What are the pros and cons of the following options? Which would you choose?
1. DNF and DD
2. DN and DD+
3. Two cruisers
4. Just a DNF (for the "freebie" victory points)
5. Something else?
I don't know what my opponent will be flying.
Off topic: this is (almost my first time flying Gorn). I've read the tactics manuals and played against plasma a lot a couple of decades ago, but any advice you can give me is always appreciated.
1. Different combat profiles may make them hard to operate together. 3rd choice.
2. Same, but I would rather have my upgrade on the big ship. 4th choice.
3. Are these the refitted BCs with added F torps or bog standard 2 g torp cruisers? If the former this is my favorite due to the ease of them operating together and has a very credible plasma threat. 1st choice.
4. A good ship and spare points in the final calculation probably better than bringing a frigate with delusions of grandeur. 2nd choice.
Tips: Don't fight Hydrans or Kzinti. Probably avoid Klingons too.