When I get home, I'll take a look at the Klingons if no one else has grabbed them by then. But I'm not confident my tactics will be any good.

I've never been all that interested in Omega or the LMC. I'm not sure why...

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Quote:

...no one gets to say "You have to promise I get to use my favorite empire." (Well ... you can say it...

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By Eddie Crutchfield (Librarian101) on Wednesday, December 04, 2019 - 08:21 pm: Edit

I have always felt that the Klingons were the most forgiving ships. Good weapons that shoot every turn, good maneuverability to get you out of that place you should not have been. If you find your first tactic did not work, you had the opportunity to do something else, not like many other empires that are more restricted.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Wednesday, December 04, 2019 - 08:26 pm: Edit

Well, if you were ever to give the Omega Octant a fresh look, and if you happen to be interested in another non-carbon-based life form with a vision of galactic conquest, perhaps it might be worth considering the silicate Trobrin Empire. The Trobrin have powerful direct-fire and seeking weapon options, a type of phaser that never has to roll to hit, and discrete belts of armour to protect their hulls... when the crew refrains from eating them, that is. (Trobrin consume various forms of rock as their base diet, and often rely on their armour belts as a supplementary food source during long-range patrols.) Plus, you can see what their ships look like over on Shapeways.

Or, if you were to double-back to the Neo-Tholians, one option could be to consider the Tholians of Draco - who, as of Y175, were still in the midst of their own intergalactic transit. A detachment of smaller ships from that task force might allow for a more "rag-tag" approach in building a battle force than the 312th would provide for, even if web casters were to be kept off the table.

By Kurt Byanski (Kurtski) on Wednesday, December 04, 2019 - 09:15 pm: Edit

Dive in with any race. It’s a great way to study one you might not normally play.

By wayne douglas power (Wayne) on Wednesday, December 04, 2019 - 09:31 pm: Edit

Indeed

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Wednesday, December 04, 2019 - 11:05 pm: Edit

Well, I got home later tonight than I had anticipated and don't have time to figure out a battle force tonight. I still have a few days and will definitely try to post one before the 8 December deadline.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Thursday, December 05, 2019 - 04:44 pm: Edit

Still at 15 empires submitted

Federation

Romulan

Kzinti

Gorn

Archeo-Tholian

Orion

Hydran

Andromedan

Lyran

Inter-Stellar Concordium

Lyran Democratic Republic

Jindarian

Vudar

Carnivon

OMEGA OCTANT

Qixa.

By John Wyszynski (Starsabre) on Thursday, December 05, 2019 - 09:46 pm: Edit

Orion (Revision 1)

John Wyszynski
USS Maryland

Orion - Kublai Cartel
BRH Kublai Assassin (145): Options: 2xPPD (+24); Drones: 2xType-IV-M (+1), 2xType-I-M (+1), 2xType-I-M-ATG (+2);Cloak Refit (+25); 1xT-Bombs (+4) = 202
BRH Kublai Revenge (145): Options: Plasma-S (FP) (+7), 2xPlasma-F (LP/RP) (+2); 2xType-IV-M (+1), 2xType-I-M (+1), 2xType-I-ATG (+2); Cloak Refit (+25); 1xT-Bombs = 187
BR Kublai Eyeglass (115): Options: 2xPlasma-F (LP/RP) (+2), 1xDrone Rack B (+1), 2xSpecial Sensor (+20); Drones: 2xType-IV-M (+1), 1xType-I-M (+0.5), 1xType-I-M-ATG (+1); Cloak Refit (+20) = 160.5
Total = 549.5

By John Wyszynski (Starsabre) on Friday, December 06, 2019 - 07:14 am: Edit

Question regarding rule #8: As an Orion force, it says that one of the ships may be an independent. Does that mean that one of the ships can be equipped outside the cartel restrictions? Specifically could one ship in the force above be equipped as a Federation zone ship instead of the ISC zone?

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Friday, December 06, 2019 - 03:00 pm: Edit

Still holding at 15 submitted battle groups, but time is running out.

John Wyszynski:

It does mean that one ship can have weapons not available to the the Cartel selected, but it does not mean that the independent can have an otherwise illegal weapons array, e.g., a Battleraider with five phaser-Gs would not be allowed. You could include a ship with disruptors in a plasma cartel force, or a ship with plasma torpedoes in a disruptor cartel force. But you could not have a Stasis Field Generator in any case because of the restrictions on that technology.

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Friday, December 06, 2019 - 03:20 pm: Edit

Tholians being smarter and better looking (as well as more modest) than other - allegedly - sapient beings, we are able to win even when using the inferior technology of the lesser empires. I will therefor be submitting my Klingon force tonight. The core of the force will consist of:

D5W IKV Slaughtermaster
D5K IKV Eviscerator
D5K IKV Fluffybunny
D5S IKV Despair

I will need to check my books tonight to complete the drone loadout and cost of Commander's Option items. But unless my memory misleads me, those ships should all be in service by Y175.

By Eddie Crutchfield (Librarian101) on Friday, December 06, 2019 - 06:01 pm: Edit

All by 175 is correct.

By John Wyszynski (Starsabre) on Friday, December 06, 2019 - 08:33 pm: Edit

Orion (Revision 2)

John Wyszynski
USS Maryland

Orion Kublai Cartal

BRH Kublai Assassin (145): Options: 2xPPD (+24); Drones: 2xType-IV-MX (+2), 2xType-I-M (+1), 2xType-I-MH (+2); Cloak Refit (+25) = 199

BRH Kublai Revenge (145): Options: 1xPlasma-S (FP) (+7), 2xPlasma-F (LP/RP) (+2); Drones: 2xType-IV-M (+1), 2xType-I-M (+1), 2xType-I-MH (+2); Cloak Refit (+25) = 183

BR Eyeglass (115): Options: 3xDrone Rack B (+3), 2xSpecial Sensor (+20); Drones: 7xType-IV-MX (+7), 2xType-IV-MHX (+3); Cloak Refit (+20) = 168
Total = 550

The Assassin and Revenge are Kublai cartel ships, the Eyeglass is an independent operator who's home base is in the Federation.

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Friday, December 06, 2019 - 11:10 pm: Edit

Klingons

Alan Trevor
USS Virginia

D5W IKV Slaughtermaster - 150

Each drone rack contains 1xType-IVM, 3xType-IM, 1xType-IM ECM drone - (2¹/₂ for 5 speed upgrades per rack): total cost +5.

MRS - +8

Convert 2 Boarding Party to Commando - +1

Convert 2 Boarding Party to Heavy Weapon - +1

2xTransporter Bombs - +8

Total Cost - 173

D5K IKV Eviscerator - 112

Y175 Refit - +2

Each drone rack contains 1xType-IVM, 3xType-IM, 1xType-IM ECM drone - (2¹/₂ for 5 speed upgrades per rack): total cost +5.

1xTransporter Bomb - +4

Total Cost - 123

D5K IKV Fluffybunny - 112

Y175 Refit - +2

Each drone rack contains 1xType-IVM, 3xType-IM, 1xType-IM ECM drone - (2¹/₂ for 5 speed upgrades per rack): total cost +5.

1xTransporter Bomb - +4

Total cost - 123

D5S IKV Despair - 120

Y175 Refit - +2

Each drone rack contains 1xType-IVM, 3xType-IM, 1xType-IM ECM drone - (2¹/₂ for 5 speed upgrades per rack): total cost +5.

1xTransporter Bomb - +4

Total Cost - 131

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Friday, December 06, 2019 - 11:14 pm: Edit

My favorite empire is the Tholians. My second favorite is the Romulans. Because of that, I'm not fully up to speed on drone load outs. I would appreciate it if someone would check mine, both for legality and for correct cost.

That's also why I didn't want to get "fancy" with the drones. I tried to keep it fairly straightforward.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Friday, December 06, 2019 - 11:17 pm: Edit

Alan Trevor:

Drone speed upgrades for the MRS's drones? See (J8.0). Near the end of the rule section is an item on MRS supplies.

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Friday, December 06, 2019 - 11:45 pm: Edit

Bah! Humbug!

I'll have to post the revised force tomorrow. I'd probably just make another mistake if I tried tonight.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Friday, December 06, 2019 - 11:51 pm: Edit

Were you paying for 5 speed upgrades for 4 drones per rack?

You can use internal armor on drones for no cost.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Saturday, December 07, 2019 - 12:06 am: Edit

Richard Eitzen:

It is Y175, so drone rack refits are installed. So each rack holds six spaces, and he has four single space drones and one double space drone in each rack. Upgrading a single space or double space drone to medium speed costs 0.5 BPV per drone. Each ship has two drone racks, so the total cost of drone speed upgrades for a given ship's drone racks is 2.5 per drone rack times two drone racks is, as correctly noted, 5 BPV.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Saturday, December 07, 2019 - 12:23 pm: Edit

Note: Tomorrow, 8 Dec 19, is the last day to submit a battle force, or modify/change an already submitted battle force.

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Saturday, December 07, 2019 - 03:23 pm: Edit

OK. If I am reading J8.531 correctly, I could elect to simply make all my MRS drones "slow" and keep my force posted last night at 11:10 PM as is. But that seems silly. Why would a Klingon force actually do that, other than "counting points" for a scenario - something that would not occur on a "real" mission.^* So I need to pay for speed upgrades for 10 spaces of drones, the other 10 spaces of MRS drones being reloads.

Speed upgrades for the "standard" load would involve one Type-IVM (.5 points), 6xType-VIM (1.5 points), and 5xTypeIM (2.5 points); with the identical reloads being "free". So a "standard' MRS drone load out at this time costs a total of 4.5 points.

But the rule allows me to use a different MRS load out if I wish. If my 20 spaces consists of 4xType-IV, 8xType-VI, and 8xType-I; I would need to pay for 2xType-IVM (1 point), 4xType-VIM (1 point), and 4xType-IM (2 points); with identical reloads included in the cost. I can pay for this by deleting one transporter bomb.

SPP - If I have done this correctly, please modify my force from 11:10 PM yesterday as follows.

Reduce D5W Slaughtermaster T-bomb load out to a single bomb (-4 points)

MRS Drones - 4xType-IVM, 8xType-VIM, 8xType-IM (+4 points)


^*I can see circumstances in which a drone-using commander might choose to include some slower-than-standard drones for "tactical" rather than "scenario bookkeeping" reasons; assaulting a webbed Tholian base or trying to clear enemy forces out of an asteroid field, for example. But even then, keeping all your ship-launched drones at the standard speed (medium - for this Battle Force scenario) and including the slower drones only for the MRS seems a peculiar way to go about it.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Saturday, December 07, 2019 - 03:28 pm: Edit

Speed 8 or 12 drones do fine against ESGs, can work as counter drones, and can be used well against slow targets. It probably makes sense to have a small portion of your drone load be slow to save a bit on points.

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Saturday, December 07, 2019 - 03:44 pm: Edit

Richard,

But that still seems to me to be a "scenario bookkeeping" choice rather than a "tactical" choice. Do speed 8 or 12 drones do better against ESGs or slow targets than speed 20 or 32 drones do? If not, why would the commander choose them? (Well, conceivably for an Orion, the cost of better drones might come out of his own personal pay... and if he is going after freighters he might feel that the slow drones are good enough. But for a commander in a regular fleet...?)

And even if you have a preference for slower drones for genuinely tactical reasons (clearing that enemy force out of the asteroid field), why would you only choose such drones for your MRS, and not your normal drone racks?

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Saturday, December 07, 2019 - 03:54 pm: Edit

Seriously, for battle groups we generally assume that the quartermasters have cleaned out the older slower drones since the Medium Speeds appeared, and the slow or moderate speed drones should only appear if a mission IS KNOWN IN ADVANCE to require them. As most actions are in deep space, you are more likely to go into the asteroid fields hunting Orions with the standard drones than you are to have had a chance to go to a resupply point and pick up some specially ordered slower drones. So we have very much tended to frown on taking slow drones to try to save a few fractions of BPV points to say purchase a few extra boarding parties to defend your Klingon D5.

If we did a battle group where we told you IN ADVANCE that you are going to be operating in an asteroid field for some reason or other (or some other terrain types where it is also useful) or defined a situation where you in turn could make a case that the drones would actually be useful, that would be different. But it is extremely unlikely in Y175 that a ship of any empire would be toting around a few slower and less useful drones [these are the reloads that will start in you scattter-pack(s) at high weapon status after all] when they are more likely to really need to the longer range and speed of the more modern drone.

To with:

Type-I or Type-IV Slow Speed Drone, Speed 8, maximum range (without extended range) 24 hexes.

Type-II or type-V Moderate Speed Drone, peed 8, maximum range (without extended range) 24 hexes.

Type-IM or type-IVM Medium Speed Drone, Speed 20, maximum range (without extended range) 60 hexes.

Be it noted that Range 24 drones pretty much never run out of "control range" (35 hexes), and Medium Speed Drones will do that readily, which requires maintaining pursuit of the target to keep the drone within the range of a controlling unit.

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Saturday, December 07, 2019 - 03:57 pm: Edit

SPP,

Is my modification, posted at 3:23 PM today, satisfactory?