Steve Just some drone trying to get to the Queen

By Eddie Crutchfield (Librarian101) on Monday, December 09, 2019 - 11:15 pm: Edit

Im always the good guy and who Im playing against is always the bad guy, At least from my point of view.

By Jeffrey George Anderson (Jeff) on Monday, December 09, 2019 - 11:19 pm: Edit

"Good? Bad? I'm the one with the shotgun."

(...At least that's how I vaguely remember the quote from Ash in "Army of Darkness..." )

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Tuesday, December 10, 2019 - 12:22 am: Edit

I think choosing cargo after knowing the mission (for better damage padding in effect) as opposed to some other thing (labs or whatnot, I forget what is legal for Jindarians) is not really reasonable. If those boxes can be null, perhaps that would be a reasonable solution.

By Jeffrey George Anderson (Jeff) on Tuesday, December 10, 2019 - 01:09 am: Edit

A question, SPP...

Is there any policy regarding us chatting/emailing each other regarding all this? I mean, I'm a big Omega fan, so if I do a lousy job with tactics regarding the Qixa, it's on me, but I can almost expect to misjudge what the Carnivons bring to the table (although I am expecting to spend a GREAT deal of time with the Death Bolt Rules ).

On the other hand, maybe Kurt or Nick has spent time with (against?) the Carnivons and might be able to point out some things about them that I won't see by just reading the rules.

(Of course, I shouldn't expect Majead to clue me in about his plans, but if he wants to, I'll DEFINITELY be taking notes... )

By wayne douglas power (Wayne) on Tuesday, December 10, 2019 - 01:46 am: Edit

Jeffrey George Anderson:

(not answering for SPP)

You are the Commander of your deployed forces at the scenario, the tactics are your own, it is a great part of the fun of battle group 550.

The BBS is an area were knowledge on different empires weapons and tactics can be gained. There are also many tactic articles written, books and modules, with good information about tactics.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Tuesday, December 10, 2019 - 08:36 am: Edit

Just to correct the record: Eddie Crutchfield is quite correct! In any contest of two or more sides, there is by definition a "Good Side tm", and a (shall we say, a "not quite so good side".)

I accept Eddies (I hope, well meaning) nomination! That puts Ted Fay (sorry Ted!) and Alan Trevor squarely on the not so good side. (Depending on the week and prevailing opinions, I have it on good authority, that Alan has earned his position.)

May the best side win and dine well!

*again, just trash talk. Nothing personal.

By Kurt Byanski (Kurtski) on Tuesday, December 10, 2019 - 08:58 am: Edit

This looks like fun! It's time to layout the map and opposing forces.

By John Stiff (Tarkin22180) on Tuesday, December 10, 2019 - 12:51 pm: Edit

Well, Cargo was the first thing that came to mind. I could have Hull, Aux Control, Fabrication, Lab, Repair, or Tractor (free, i.e. 0 BPV costs). Transporters would have been the ideal choice for the scenario, but they are limited and not free. Ibid for the other two choices, i.e. Special Sensors and Barracks.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Tuesday, December 10, 2019 - 01:39 pm: Edit

Jindarian Options:

First, this is an example of why I am always asking everyone to be extra eyes checking the posted battle groups. This does not excuse the fact that I missed it too, it is a fact. But everyone should be checking battle groups for errors so that we do not come to this point.

Second, looking at the options, and looking at the opposition (Lyran, LDR, plasma-armed Orions), I would say that John Stiff's options should be tractor beams. Basically none of his opponents uses drones, which means they do not help with his seeking weapon defense (could drop batteries to snag a suicide shuttle, or death drag non-suicide shuttles of course) and he lacks the power to do a lot of "long range tractoring" with the added tractors. Further, they do not provide a lot of "padding" like cargo or hull would against internal damage.

I am, at this juncture, not "imposing" a solution, but I am proposing one and stating my rationale for it. If this is acceptable to his opponents (the aforementioned Lyrans, LDR, and plasma-armed Orions), we can move on from this point. It has no effect on anyone else.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Tuesday, December 10, 2019 - 02:37 pm: Edit

SPP's proposal is more neutral than Richard B. Eitzen's suggestion.

The idea of converting the option boxes to "null" actually reduces the number of internal SSD boxes.

Such a solution is needlessly vindictive and more punitive than is necessary. If a mistake were made concerning a drone load out or the type of some sort of boarding party (as examples of commanders options) that overstated the value of the battle force, the traditional response would be to correct the BPV, not reduce the number of SSD boxes on board the ship. (I.e. Instead of a battle force total BPV of 550, a lower amount indicating the true value of the battle force. )

It should be noted that cargo boxes provide greater general protection in DAC resolution than tractor beams do (by virtue of being located on a different row/column of the DAC). I have to look at the actual DAC, but iirc it would protect certain underlined options on the DAC. Off hand, IDNK which systems would be protected.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Tuesday, December 10, 2019 - 02:48 pm: Edit

I do not like that you call my solution 'vindictive' as the intent is fairness. It is needlessly antagonistic towards me to refer to my actions is such a light.

Not that I have 'standing' but I think SPPs suggestion is also reasonable.

By wayne douglas power (Wayne) on Tuesday, December 10, 2019 - 03:27 pm: Edit

Apologies for not checking all the submissions.

Jindarians (R16.1C11) No more than two groups of boxes can be the same.

(what has been done in previous Battle Groups when errors in submissions have happened?)

By Eddie Crutchfield (Librarian101) on Tuesday, December 10, 2019 - 04:08 pm: Edit

Steve concerning shuttles landing on the Asteroid, Do we use the rule under asteroids for landing on Asteroids where it ends the turn on the asteroid and lands the next turn, if so does it wait or does it land immediately on impulse 1. If so how long does the shuttle need to remain on the Asteroid. I think when the scenario was first written that the tractor rules and the landing and taking off for shuttles were not the same as now. Its been a while since I used these particular rules.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Tuesday, December 10, 2019 - 04:24 pm: Edit

Eddie Crutchfield:

See (P3.42).

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Tuesday, December 10, 2019 - 04:53 pm: Edit

Wayne Douglas Power:

An error of this type is (honestly) not one I can recall getting to this point before.

Generally there are "math" errors.

Someone forgets to pay for something, or miscalculates their totals. Those (only found when i am manually checking every battle group as I am editing the tactics) are generally handled by penalizing the battle force by subtracting Commander's Options until things come into BPV balance. Deleting T-bombs, or Boarding parties, or extra deck crews. This is always done with an eye towards fairness and an assumption that this mistake was an honest one (the player did not deliberately exceed the BPV and then hope that I would be charitable and only delete those things that are not useful to him in the revealed scenario).

Then there are people who miscalculate UP. That is to say they believe they have spent the whole 550 BPV, and on review it is discovered that they did not. If you were to look at all of the submitted battle groups in past Captain's Logs you will find some that are below the price point, even though they could have obviously purchased a few more boarding parties, or a T-bomb or two, or some deck crews, or what have you. If you did not spend all of your available BPV before the scenario was revealed, the mistake is on you. I will correct the math, but I will not spend your excess BPV for you, nor will you be allowed to spend the unspent BPV at that point.

There is a governing principle to "be fair" [which is why I am going with the tractor beams in this case, to start, but will have to look at (R16.1C11) that you pointed to also and may add other things]. But I try to always err on the side of being fair to everyone, not just the player who made an honest mistake, but his opponents. As noted in this case, the tractors will not help the Jindarians much (really at all since they could easily use existing tractors against seeking shuttles), but will take damage.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Tuesday, December 10, 2019 - 06:22 pm: Edit

Jeff Wile:

I have deleted this message as, while you were obviously attempting to be explanatory, your choice of expression was going entirely the wrong way.

Respectfully:

Steven P.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Tuesday, December 10, 2019 - 06:39 pm: Edit

Understood.

By John Stiff (Tarkin22180) on Tuesday, December 10, 2019 - 07:33 pm: Edit

All three Orion ships have drones. Taking Tractors may not be fair to the Orion - though powering them all at the same time would be an amazing feat for the Jindarians. The BCH has 10 unlabeled boxes. The CA has 6 unlabeled boxes.

Just saying.

I think that Petric and I are the same age - I know I am getting more forgetful in my old age.

By Randy O. Green (Hollywood750) on Tuesday, December 10, 2019 - 07:35 pm: Edit

Just correcting Jeffrey George Anderson's Ash quote. It was actually, "Good, bad.. I'm the guy with the shotgun plasma."

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandor) on Tuesday, December 10, 2019 - 07:56 pm: Edit

Make the boxes Fabrication and works.

By John Wyszynski (Starsabre) on Tuesday, December 10, 2019 - 08:36 pm: Edit

My Orion force is really a mixed weapon force. As it has seven drone racks (plus possible scatter packs), more enemy tractors would be to my disadvantage.

The bigger error with the Jindarian force is that the BCH is a size class 2 ship, violating rule #1.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Tuesday, December 10, 2019 - 08:50 pm: Edit

John Wyzynski:

My error.

I checked your original submission and did not think to look for revisions.

When I get to the office tomorrow I will see what I can come up with that I think is fair.

By John Wyszynski (Starsabre) on Tuesday, December 10, 2019 - 09:14 pm: Edit

Question regarding the Prospecting Shuttles on the Jindarian ships: Can they pick up crystals? They have less cargo spaces than the admin shuttles; which is 15 spaces. Annex #7K says a PROS can carry only 2 spaces.

Rule (R1.F12) appeared in both F1 and J2. The F1 description says 5 (or 10) spaces. This text does not appear in the J2 version; moved to the Annex?

By wayne douglas power (Wayne) on Wednesday, December 11, 2019 - 01:49 am: Edit

Not only is it a good idea for players to check the battle group submissions, it is also a good idea that players read the scenario rules instruction.