Ok, read the scenario.

Looking at the balance options, I would simply replace the YF-AS with an unarmed F-S (standard EY freighter) and call it good.

Also remember that EY suicide shuttles are not reliable once they take damage.

As written, with competent players, the scenario is basically unwinnable for the Lyran (barring some insane mistake on the Hydran players part).

By Michael Urquhart (Michaelu) on Monday, October 24, 2011 - 01:02 pm: Edit

Is there a list somewhere of good balanced scenarios?

By Troy Latta (Saaur) on Monday, October 24, 2011 - 01:52 pm: Edit

Is the Lyran objective to kill the whole Hydran force, or just the freighter? Is there a penalty for losing his ship?
If it's just the freighter and his ship status at the end doesn't matter, the Lyran can come screaming in, take his licks, and pop the freighter. End of story. The Hydran parking in this scenario is ALLOWING the Lyran to come close to his objective.

By Mike Kenyon (Mikek) on Monday, October 24, 2011 - 02:01 pm: Edit

I concur with Troy, I don't have Y3 in front of me, but USUALLY when the ships are way out of wack, the victory conditions are such that victory is acheivable even if the destruction of the opponent is not.

It's also fairly common in these circumstances that the victory of the "heavier" opponent is such that it requires some action that would complicate the turtling.

One possible option for the Lyran is that even with P2 you should be able to snipe the freighter. If they're not moving, then get to an amenable range (4?), pop a 1-3 ECM/ECCM (if you're playing with EW) configuration pound down the freighter while posting a fairly large brick on the facing shield.

The challenge there would be picking a range where you can raise a brick large enough to largely defeat the damage that the 4 P2s can do against you, while still being able to do damage to the YF-AS which doesn't have the power capability to fire and brick (from my notably poor memory). If the freighter raises a brick, it can't fire, and then you get into the guessing game of who's firing this turn. Not great by any means, but likely prevents you from taking considerable damaage and allows you to deal some out. At R3, you're getting beaten solidly. At R4, you're trading best shot volleys of 12 to 6, but likely damage is 2 and 4. A couple lucky shots and you've got internals on the freighter...

Of course, if there's a fixed time limit, you are going to have to do the overrun, probably twice. May want to come in hot with the ESG at R1, may take out some of their shuttles and the drop your own at the same impulse the ESG goes down. Try to time is so that you can launch at some speed (1-4) that'll go the next impulse.

It doesn't sound like an easy one, to be sure.

By Michael J. Sexton (Lb4269) on Monday, October 24, 2011 - 11:23 pm: Edit

In this scenario, the Lyran win it if they control the freighter at the end of ten turns. They lose if they blow it up or don't get their cats aboard. The freighter can warp tac, but it cannot move from the hex. The warp tac can keep a fresh shield to the Lyran pretty much all the time. He did do some good sniping at R3, he did 7 damage, and the freighter turned that shield away and gave him a fresh one each time he came in. (The freighter has 8 shields all the way around.)

He could not beat either the clock or the Hydran phaser superiority. By not moving, the Hydrans had extra energy to put into a variety of other nasty things as well. The Hydrans also out battery the Lyran.

The more I look at, the more I see how impossible a mission I put poor Michael U in. At first glance, it looked like a rather exciting little brawl...

I am still hoping some pro out there will point out some way to beat the tactic I used. I sure can't see one.

By Mike Strain (Evilmike) on Tuesday, October 25, 2011 - 12:32 am: Edit

Give the Lyran a YCL or YDD instead of a YDT and see what happens.

By Jonathan Biggar (Jonb) on Tuesday, October 25, 2011 - 02:10 pm: Edit

As the Lyran, try approaching on the shield boundary of a damaged shield on the freighter on the second pass battle pass, timing the approach to late in the turn when the freighter can only have one remaining TAC. The Lyran needs to force the freighter to use the TAC to protect the shield and then take advantage of the delay before the freighter can TAC again to maneuver to hit the down shield a second time.

By Shawn Hantke (Shantke) on Thursday, July 31, 2014 - 11:37 pm: Edit

I miss playing SFB so I have been thinking about some solo play. My absolute favorite scenario is SH2.0 The Surprise Reversed. I love trying to figure out the optimal way to destroy as much of the fleet as possible before they wake up and you have to make a run for it. The scenario has a single attacking ship surprising a fleet that is basically asleep and inactive. The scenario give variation examples for non historical attacking ships and surprised fleets for the Federation, Klingons, Romulans, Kzinti, Gorn, Tholian, Hydran, Lyran, WYN, LDR and ISC. Does anyone have any suggestions for variation ships from any other empires not listed, to be the attacking ship or ship for the surprised fleet?

By Matthew Potter (Neonpico) on Friday, August 01, 2014 - 01:40 am: Edit

[deleted by author]

By Michael Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Friday, August 01, 2014 - 10:04 am: Edit

Well, I think there are at least TWO cases of they Roms in the GW coming to grief when surprised at Anchor.

The surprised reversed is the classic scenario but the reason the Kzinti withdrew (their excuse at least) from the drive on Romulus is they destroyed "the second star legion" (IIRC) at anchor and so reasoned that they had screened that flank enough anyway...

By Randy Blair (Randyblair) on Friday, August 01, 2014 - 11:30 am: Edit

Empire	Ship #1	Force #2
Andromedan	PYT	INT w/3 COB

By Shawn Hantke (Shantke) on Friday, August 01, 2014 - 10:03 pm: Edit

Randy, would the Intruder have the Cobras in the hangar or deployed? Seems like it would be in trouble. Though the surprised fleet runs minimum shields until released, PA panels would be tougher at standard, then worse for the attacker at reinforced when released.

By Randy Blair (Randyblair) on Friday, August 01, 2014 - 10:46 pm: Edit

The SH2 rules explicitly state shields, not PA panels. I would rule that PA panels couldn't be raised at all. And yes I would have the Cobras in the hangar.

By Ginger McMurray (Gingermcmurray) on Monday, December 09, 2019 - 06:04 am: Edit

Thoughts on Incident on the WYN Border? My plan as the Orion is to

1) pray I roll a 6 for the starting turn.

2) pray I get a lock on once he's close enough to reach him with drones inside of 8 impulses.

3) pray I keep lock on or ATG takes over after he turns off.

4) pray

Also, does it seem weird that the scenario says the prions fire on the Klingons? They just came out of the radiation zone and aren't even close. The scenario is set up to be a fight, whereas in a real situation you'd think that the pirates would get closer, play "sure we'll trade," then unload when fire control comes back online.

Why show your hand at range 40ish when it's a losing one that early?

Note: I haven't counted BPV. Is the difference so great that the Klingons can't just dip into range ten, get a few points from labs, then disengage?

By Jon Murdock (Xenocide) on Monday, December 09, 2019 - 11:03 am: Edit

Any Klingon who decides to "trade" with an Orion PF tender in that scenario deserves court martial. I would expect the security overseers would have the captain shot for pirate sympathies.

I think the Orions fired first because they knew the Klingons would quickly realize they were not mercs and figured that if they did not fire first the Klingons would.

By Ginger McMurray (Gingermcmurray) on Monday, December 09, 2019 - 12:56 pm: Edit

I don't mean trade, I mean dip into range 8-9 and use labs for a few free victory points, then run away. Per the scenario, they get 1 VP per point of information gained.

By Jon Murdock (Xenocide) on Monday, December 09, 2019 - 12:59 pm: Edit

You lose points for disengaging though if I remember the scenario right. You would probably have to stick around and do quite a bit of scanning to counteract that.

By Ginger McMurray (Gingermcmurray) on Monday, December 09, 2019 - 01:08 pm: Edit

Not in this specific scenario. The klingons are allowed to leave, though no ship can go until it's gotten within range 10 of an Orion ship or PF.

By Ginger McMurray (Gingermcmurray) on Monday, December 09, 2019 - 01:35 pm: Edit

A huge piece of the scenario boils down to what the Orions roll. If you're starting turn one and have to go through the entire radiation zone cycle you're in deep doodoo. If you roll a 6 then the Klingons are.

The interesting thing is how many scout channels the Orions have and how useless they are.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Monday, December 09, 2019 - 02:59 pm: Edit

Ginger McMurray;

Better study the WYN Radiation Zone rules a little more closely.

If you get a lock-on and launch seeking weapons under that lock-on, you retain the lock-on for those seeking weapons (and for no other purpose) until they hit their targets, are destroyed, do not otherwise meet control limits (the target moves to a range longer than 35 hexes from the controlling unit), or you decide to gamble on another lock-on role (perhaps to fire direct fire weapons) and fail. See (P7.22).

Further, the "self-guiding" ability of any seeking weapons is also affected by the radiation zone, and is not "automatic." See (P7.221).

By Jeffrey George Anderson (Jeff) on Monday, December 09, 2019 - 03:38 pm: Edit

One thing I never understood about the scenario; why did the Orions open fire so early? Why not try to bluff their way out of the situation or, at the very least, bluff their way through enough of a delay to recover from the WYN zone effects?

"Howdy, Cap'n," the jovial Orion rolled off his tongue with a casual wave of his hand. "What can I do ya for?"

"You need to heave to and prepare for an ISF inspection," Chief Constable Komar brusquely ordered.

"Okay, okay," the Orion acknowledged. "Just to let you know, we're on a mission against the Furrballs on behalf of the Galactic Bureau; they 'Advised' us to leave the WYN zone in Klingon space. If you wanna confirm it, I can send the specifics to ya, code four.

"Might take a bit, though. We keep that info on an old computer; sum'n most hackers nowadays ain't gonna give no mind to. Keeps it secure, but the old computer's still a bit frazzled from the `Zone..."

(Meanwhile, the Orion is recovering from the WYN zone effects, luring Komar's forces in, and "Polishing the Cannonball" for his passive targeting. )

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Monday, December 09, 2019 - 04:04 pm: Edit

Ginger McMurray:

As to the Orions opening fire so quickly, you could put it down to startled over-reaction.

Today, my car was sideswiped in the parking lot. Jean Sexton and Al Beddow were both passengers in my car, when it happened. Jean had a far more hyper reaction than I did, even though it is my car that was damaged.

I am not allowed to get angry and blow my top, as much as there was a part of me that wanted to. I am required to remain in control of myself and deal with the facts on the ground.

The Orions, however, may have seen the Klingons when their scanners cleared and just immediately started shooting.

By Ginger McMurray (Gingermcmurray) on Monday, December 09, 2019 - 05:16 pm: Edit

Gotcha. I was reading that paragraph to mean you had to make another roll. That is a drastic change for the Orions' chances. I knew ATG was affected by the zone since drones still count as units, but their presence would allow another rol, hence the "pray."

Since the lock-on stays around, I may not even pay for it. Not a lot of reason to give the enemy the VPs, even though it could be useful.

I can definitely see someone giving a knee jerk reaction to 5 klingons on the starboard bow, starboard bow, starboard bow. :D

By Ginger McMurray (Gingermcmurray) on Monday, December 09, 2019 - 05:45 pm: Edit

Scratch the part about not paying for things. Modified victory conditions removes the calculation of differences in combat BPV and commander's options don't increase the gross adjusted BPV for purposes of S2.20 (C). I'll probably get ATG anyway, just in case I need to reroll for lock on. The klingons will have 9 drone racks between them and everything is speed 32. I've got a lot of tractors on the PFT, but not a lot of power to operate them.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Monday, December 09, 2019 - 06:09 pm: Edit

Ginger McMurray:

Ah but

"We come in peace, shoot to kill, shoot to kill, shoot to kill men!"

From "Star Trekkin."

Of course, "Banned From Argo" is more my speed.