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	Archive through January 31, 2020	25		02/05 02:34pm
	Archive through February 20, 2020	25		02/21 04:50pm

So, what about the F15s? None of their CVBs ever got destroyed?

By Shayne Demeria (Nighthawk) on Thursday, February 20, 2020 - 09:42 pm: Edit

A Few thoughts and counter points.

1. Adding the 4 boxes will make the ship tighter, but I know things would be shifted around.

As I stated, maybe some officer in a rush drafted out a ship intended to replace the standard CVA, and what looked good on paper, proved to be problematic.

2. Earlier version, but possibly slightly worse than the DVA.
If there are flaws, I as a player don't really mind. After all, this could have been a rushed version so there were flaws that they ironed out in the DVA that followed.

As for the SCS, they probably dusted off the old plans because the older ship had the space needed to be able to fit the full complement of shuttles.

I agree that there are hurdles, and I will have to work on them to figure it out. More to follow, once I find the SSD, and try to figure out how to revamp it to make a full CVA. However, I might be stuck with a 1/2 squadron of A10's. Who knows.

By Mike West (Mjwest) on Friday, February 21, 2020 - 12:02 am: Edit

Shayne,

Good luck with the proposal!

Mike,

I got the impression that the CVBs were just too expensive to make, So they were effectively irreplaceable. So, if they were lost, they would just be replaced with normal CVSs or NVSs.

I could be wrong on that, but the F-15s were used even less than F-14s. The only two I can think of are the CVB and the conjectural BB.

By Jeff Anderson (Jga) on Friday, February 21, 2020 - 11:40 am: Edit

Shayne, I stumbled across something by accident. There's a ship in Captain's Log #38 that, I think is almost, if not exactly what you're looking for.

The color text says, "(R2.A29) DREADNOUGHT HEAVY CARRIER (DVA): An improved Federation heavy carrier built on a guided weapons dreadnought (R2.61) hull from Y179. While the full battery of photon torpedoes was retained (all of the modifications were restricted to the engineering hull), power would have been a problem when trying to reload the A-20s under combat conditions.

"The dreadnought heavy carrier is a variant of the guided weapons dreadnought (R2.61).

"Carrier: This ship is a true carrier; see (J4.75), (J4.93), (J10.111), (J11.13) and (J15.22).

"As with the earlier heavy carrier (R2.13), it operates a squadron of F-14 (R2.F1) fighters (from a single bay that included four shuttles), but the A-10s (R2.F2) were replaced by A-20 (R2.F9) heavy fighters in semi-external (J1.561) bays (allowing all to launch at once). Mines can only be laid from the bay with the admin shuttles (M2.113). Other data is the same as the heavy carrier (R2.13) [including the two SWACS (J9.0)]. The MRS (J8.0) and SWAC [(J9.0)/(R2.F3)] shuttles are not included within the BPV. See [(J9.531)/(R2.F3A)] for use of an E-3A heavy SWAC."

By Mike West (Mjwest) on Friday, February 21, 2020 - 04:50 pm: Edit

Jeff A,

That's the "DVA" ship we have been discussion since the first post of this discussion. Shayne wants to take the six A-20s on the design and replace them with 12 A-10s. That's what he's asking for and all he is really asking for.

By Shayne Demeria (Nighthawk) on Friday, February 21, 2020 - 09:51 pm: Edit

currently working on something using the base DNG. not even going to compare to the DVA until after I hashed something up.

By Jeff Anderson (Jga) on Saturday, February 22, 2020 - 01:13 am: Edit

Mine bad. Love to see what you come up with.

By Shayne Demeria (Nighthawk) on Thursday, August 13, 2020 - 03:27 pm: Edit

Well my hopes for designing this went bye bye. Water pipe broke in room with my SFB stuff. Everything soaked and wrecked. Wondering if anyone else might take up the idea of this.

A CVA with the 2 x 12 fighter squadrons on a DNG hull.

It has to be slightly worse off than the DVA, and can fall under inbuilt or limited production.

I also am willing to give credit where credit is due and will gladly pass credit to anyone who can design it.

Thanks in advance, as it is going to take me a while to reestablish my SFB material to say nothing of my F&E stuff as well.

By Mike Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Thursday, August 13, 2020 - 07:46 pm: Edit

Note that if the YIS is such that you are choosing between 12 A10 and 6 A20, I have been told that the A20s are going to be what is picked. Because of the speed advantage. Plus not needing an EWF. etc.

A10s are never going to catch an enemy that stays at high speed. Nor can they outrun, or even stay at the same range as, pursuing fighters.

By Shayne Demeria (Nighthawk) on Friday, August 14, 2020 - 05:17 pm: Edit

Mike, understood. But I was thinking a unit that comes in after the DNG, but before the DVA.

Flight group needs to be the a10 and f14.
Maybe it was the failed experience with this unit that leads to the better DVA.

By Mike Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Saturday, August 15, 2020 - 01:10 pm: Edit

i don't have my books.

What is the YIS of the A10, A20, DVA, CVA, and SCS?

Because this shouldn't be better than a CVA or SCS.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Saturday, August 15, 2020 - 01:42 pm: Edit

A-10 Y171

A-20 Y177

A-20F Y179

CVA Y171

DVA Y179

SCS Y186

By Mike Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Saturday, August 15, 2020 - 11:27 pm: Edit

So the DVA & DNG carrier are post A20F... Soundsl like they were designed and built just for that reason...

It's almost like SVC and SPP had an actual plan in mind!

By Shayne Demeria (Nighthawk) on Sunday, August 16, 2020 - 12:32 am: Edit

There currently is no official heavy carrier based on the DNG,

The DVA comes out after the A20F, but there is currently none for the time between 175 and 177 which where I was asking for an official heavy carrier based on the DNG.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Sunday, August 16, 2020 - 02:36 am: Edit

It would be very difficult to build a DNG-based CVA before the CVA. Why wasn't the CVA based on the DNG? The only way to do a DNG-CVA is after the CVA by several years. Which the (R2.A29) built in Y179 already is. That's the best we can do for you. Sorry, but history painted this one into a corner you cannot escape from.

To be clear, when the DNG appeared it was desperately needed as a DNG. They could not spare a DNG hull to become the DVA until Y179. You cannot get one early. I guess you could get a conjectural never built DVA and I guess building it in F&E instead of a DNG might be an option but the DNG is so desperately needed and the DVA only slight better than a CVA so I do not see anyone doing that. So there is never going to be a real historical DVA75. If your opponent won’t let you use a conjectural ship then I am not going to force him to allow it.

I think we are done here. The proposed ship already exists. If you want a footnote authorizing 12 F14 and 12 A10 fine, but nobody wants that in Y179.

By Shayne Demeria (Nighthawk) on Monday, August 17, 2020 - 07:17 pm: Edit

Steve, understood, but with the list Mr. Patrick posted the CVA was Y171, I was trying to get an official one in between 175 and 177.

I understand that they would be using the DNG as a dreadnaught,

I would like to see an official CVA between 175 and the advent of the DVA, even if it was conjecture.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Monday, August 17, 2020 - 07:47 pm: Edit

Then you do not need me. Just take the DVA R2.A29 and replace the 6 A20s with 12 A10s. Voila. Done.

By Shayne Demeria (Nighthawk) on Monday, August 17, 2020 - 10:57 pm: Edit

Isn't the DVA's A20's on mech links?

If so then swapping the A20's for A10's doesn't work.
They need an internal bay.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Tuesday, August 18, 2020 - 01:02 am: Edit

Bays, links, six, half a dozen, you wanted a ship and I gave you all there was to give you. You are not going to get a DNG CVA in Y175.

And as noted, there is no way to shoehorn 24 fighters into a DNG anyway, so that's just not going to happen, officially or conjecturally.

By Jeff Anderson (Jga) on Tuesday, August 18, 2020 - 09:59 am: Edit

This isn't meant as a real, formal proposal, it's just me being a jerk.

What about a carrier version of the DNG that operates just ONE squadron?

My "Reasoning?"

We saw that with two powerful ships, the DNL and BCJ, the Federation were able to modify them to operate a squadron of F-14 fighters without any loss of capabilities from their base hulls.

The DNG did have enough "Room" for some upgrades/improvements; we saw that with the DNH. Maybe it's just me, but that suggests there should be enough room on board that hull to do the same sort of modifications that gave us the DVL and BCV.

Again, this is just me being a jerk...

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Tuesday, August 18, 2020 - 11:02 am: Edit

The only carrier version of a DNG would be in Y179. Just take the DNV and delete the A20s entirely. Voila.

By Jeff Anderson (Jga) on Tuesday, August 18, 2020 - 07:56 pm: Edit

Well (and again, this is just me being a jerk ), there are a couple things a DNG has that aren't on the DVA.

(For ONCE, I've actually pulled out the SSDs for BOTH ships and am looking at them side-by-side.)

Hey! Here's another (utterly looney) thought; what if there was a version of the DNG that, at the cost of one each Battery and Transporter in the secondary hull, had two extra tractor beams and all six were outfitted with heavy fighter mech-links for F-101s?

(... Aaand is this getting too far away from the original thoughts of this thread... )