For #3, I could do two CC+ (150 each) and add the F refits with commander's options. That only leaves 2 points for other options, so no t-bombs if he brings drones.

Luckily scatter-packs and special drones are commander's level rules so those won't be available.

By Ginger McMurray (Gingermcmurray) on Tuesday, November 05, 2019 - 04:01 pm: Edit

Umm, duh. COs are 20%. Not 10%.

I could do 2x CC+ with F refits and still have room for 4 t-bombs each.

By Michael Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Tuesday, November 05, 2019 - 04:18 pm: Edit

Do you know who you'll be facing?

Because it matters a lot.

By Ginger McMurray (Gingermcmurray) on Tuesday, November 05, 2019 - 04:19 pm: Edit

Michael,

No. Hence the "I don't know what my opponent will be flying" portion of my post.

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandor) on Tuesday, November 05, 2019 - 04:49 pm: Edit

If following S.8 Patrol scenario rules. You can only have one CC not two. With 300 points you can get a BC and a HDD+ not two BC. A BC ie a CA with both the + and F refit. Cost is 160 BPV.

You want a mix of heavy S torps and smaller F torps. So you can fire off the S torps but have enough of the smaller F torps left to hurt him with if he closes to overload range.

By Jon Murdock (Xenocide) on Tuesday, November 05, 2019 - 05:07 pm: Edit

Pretty sure you cannot buy refits with Commander's options.

By Ginger McMurray (Gingermcmurray) on Tuesday, November 05, 2019 - 05:19 pm: Edit

Doh! I'd missed that. I can't find an SSD marked "CA" though clearly it's in the master ship chart so it has to exist. What am I missing?

Re: refits as COs. I had seen them on Annex 6's chart but missed the portion of S3.24 which only allows them for historical scenarios. Scratch that idea.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Tuesday, November 05, 2019 - 05:30 pm: Edit

Ginger McMurray:

The Gorn BC is a refitted CA. The SSD of the BC should spell out what things you have to take off to get the CA (plasma-Fs, downgrade the plasma-S-RP/LP to plasma-G-LF+L and RF+R, delete the LS/RS phaser-3s off the top of my head, not looking at the SSD).

Anyone giving advice should keep in mind that he said this would be on a FIXED map, which means driving in for the "Gorn Anchor" is a possibility against many opponents. But he has to be leery of the drone chuckers (Gorns are not real good against masses of small seeking weapons). He would be about even virtually most of the other plasma-Chuckers.

In short, any advice offered needs to consider the fixed map angle.

Jon Murdock:

(S3.24) REFITS which are available in the year of the scenario but which are not specified for the ship may be purchased as Commander’s Options in a fixed, i.e., historical, scenario. If a ship never received a particular refit (as noted in either its unit description or on its SSD) it cannot purchase that refit as a Commander’s Option unless the opposing player(s) have agreed to allow this as an experiment. If you buy a refit with Commander’s Options, this does not increase the Effective Adjusted Combat BPV (S3.211).

So you can buy them (if available and not installed) in a "historical scenario" (which this obviously is not), but not as part of a pick up scenario or "general scenario." So you are partly right and this is just noted to make that differentiation.

By Ginger McMurray (Gingermcmurray) on Tuesday, November 05, 2019 - 05:34 pm: Edit

Thanks, Steve! I was worried the printer had eaten a page while making copies and they hadn't told me.

Side note: "she," not "he."

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Tuesday, November 05, 2019 - 07:03 pm: Edit

Ginger McMurray:

Apologies for the gaff on my part. Always a problem when communicating solely via a print medium, all the visual and aural cues are missing.

By Ginger McMurray (Gingermcmurray) on Tuesday, November 05, 2019 - 07:04 pm: Edit

Thoughts on the CLF+ vs. the HDD+?

Right now I'm leaning towards CCF+ and either HDD+ or CLF+.

The CCF+ is a few points more than the BC but gets extra batteries for them.

The CL is definitely going to pop sooner, but an extra S-torp is lovely tempting.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Tuesday, November 05, 2019 - 07:54 pm: Edit

I'd go with the CLF

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Tuesday, November 05, 2019 - 09:18 pm: Edit

Ginger McMurray:

The Gorn CC does not gain any batteries. The batteries are moved from the back of the forward bubble (being replaced by the Flag bridge) and added to the front end of the rear bubble (doubling the batteries there, but not increasing the number of batteries over those of a Gorn CA/BC.

By Ginger McMurray (Gingermcmurray) on Tuesday, November 05, 2019 - 10:50 pm: Edit

Wow. I'm no longer allowed to look at SSDs while I'm supposed to be using at least 3/4 of my brain for work, but am really only using 1/4. :-D

So the CC+ only adds 2 flag bridges over the BC. I doubt the 4 points will affect victory conditions, but I'll go with the BC just in case.

BC and CLF+ it is!

Thanks everyone! I'm coming back after a long (20-year) hiatus and clearly need some more experience.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Tuesday, November 05, 2019 - 11:10 pm: Edit

Ginger McMurray:

Just remember the added BPV is for the added flag bridge boxes which is two extra points of damage, and the increased command rating, which lets you bring an 11 ship fleet with a scout.

By Steve Zamboni (Szamboni) on Tuesday, November 05, 2019 - 11:21 pm: Edit

Pair of Gorn DBC's at 145 each could be entertaining if you want matched power curves.

By Ginger McMurray (Gingermcmurray) on Wednesday, November 06, 2019 - 12:54 pm: Edit

I've rarely played Gorn (maybe never?) and I've rarely flown against them. I've only everused a fixed map once. It was Hydran vs. Andro, so no help here.

What are good tactics for plasma on a fixed map? Is it just "run in and anchor" or is a ballet possible? Size reference: the map will be the one that comes in the box.

By Jon Murdock (Xenocide) on Wednesday, November 06, 2019 - 01:27 pm: Edit

Trap them against the wall and fire plasma. Plasma is harder to use on a floating map. Both anchoring and ballet are workable strategies but it is hard to give advice unless you know what the opposition is. Fighting a Kzinti, a Hydran, and a Romulan would all be different.

By Jeff Anderson (Jga) on Friday, April 03, 2020 - 07:15 pm: Edit

With the self-isolation break, I've had some ideas (more likely "Hallucinations") for some possible Gorn BC tactics, and thought it fun (WE NEED SOME FUN!!) to put it out...

... So you all, my friends, can shoot all sorts of holes in them.

Idea/Hallucination #1: The Gorn Shuffle. The heavy Plasma Torpedoes are on LP/RP arcs. The gap between those arcs on the back of the ship is small enough that, when the ship does a standard turn, anything that's in the "Blind Spot" will ge in arc for one of them. As such, even though the CA/BC #4 shield isn't particularly strong, it can absorb multiple hits at range while the ship dances away from a (more powerful?) enemy. With the higher speed of Sabot Plasmas, it will preserve the critically needed #1 shield and might be a possible way for this ship to fight on a floating map.

Idea/Hallucination #2: Gorn Chaff. Rules for Bacony and Track enable the Gorn to launch all of their shuttles at the same time. Imagine if the Gorn launch five shuttles all simultaneously (keeping one aboard as a potential Wild Weasel?). This cluster of shuttles has a potentially hefty bit of firepower, due to the five Phaser-3s. HOWEVER, if one of the shuttles is a G-7 and an opponent doesn't think of it, he may think he's off scott free after the five Phaser-3 salvo and might blunder into a Suicide Shuttle. The four... Excuse me, FIVE shuttles will only occupy two of the six available Seeking Weapon Control Channels as "Remote Controlled Fighters, so they can be (in theory) defended from intercepting fighters (or shuttles operated by the enemy as fighting platforms) by a Plasma-S Shotgun.

Anyway, I haven't playtested either of these ideas, but I still thought I'd throw them out while we're all in lock-down, thanks to COVID. Please feel free to blast ALL sorts of holes in them.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Friday, April 03, 2020 - 10:00 pm: Edit

Jeff Anderson:

While scatter-packs can be held on a balcony, neither wild weasels OR suicide shuttles can be. So if you launch five shuttles from the balcony the enemy knows none of them are suicide shuttles.

By John L Stiff (Tarkin22180) on Friday, April 03, 2020 - 10:52 pm: Edit

Jeff,

Now you have me Hallucinating..

I dreamed of a Gorn retrograde. The heavy Plasma Torpedoes on LP/RP have no "gap". And the front shields are stronger. Of course, being a dream, the opponent tries to close!

By Jeff Anderson (Jga) on Saturday, April 04, 2020 - 12:52 am: Edit

SPP, suicide shuttles can't be held on a balcony, but can the other four shuttles be released from their balcony locations on the same impulse as a suicide shuttle is launched directly from the shuttle bay?

John, yes this is a (pale) retrograde. However, the "Novel Feature" (more like a dime store rag feature, but that's another story) is the combination of the ship still moving forward (thus possibly enabling her to do an escape acceleration if things go WAY south AND protecting her #1 shield for an end-game Gorn Anchor) with a staggered Plasma Torpedo launch (which can give better players than me all sorts of tactical options; the psychological guessing game of "Is it a Pseudo" comes to mind).

By Jeff Anderson (Jga) on Saturday, April 04, 2020 - 01:15 am: Edit

SPP:

Blathered first thoughts; sorry if they were too incoherent.

TBH, I think I'd have been wiser to read up on the balcony rules before blathering out as I did, but as I stated with the proposal post, this is something meant to be shot full of holes as a way of giving all of us in the community a bit of relaxation and, I hope, fun and amusement.

I will re-re-read those rules this evening () and (hopefully) be able to answer my own questions.

Before doing so, my thoughts are that the Gorn can use Wild Weasels and Suicide Shuttles, so the fact that neither one can be held on balconies suggests that the Gorn need not use them to launch shuttles.

Still, your post about them not being able to launch them that way just gives me more confidence that an opponent will not think in terms of there being a suicide shuttle in a gaggle that the BC just released.

The reference to the G-7 was one option in my (alleged) mind to compensate for a signature feature of Suicide Shuttles; the G-7 has two phaser threes, thus letting the gaggle fire as many phasers as there are shuttles in the cloud.

(I may be a LOUSY player, but I do know enough to know a shuttle prepared for a suicide mission isn't able to use its phaser )

Anyway, again, the G-7 is meant to camoflage the Suicide Shuttle that way. Another option for that MIGHT be an MRS, but the storyteller in me doubts any Gorn worthy of commanding a Battlecruiser, were s/he assigned an MRS, would use it in such a high risk for the reward as this.

Anyway, these are still first thoughts on an idea. Now, to break out the Master Rule Book for a pleasant midnight read...

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Saturday, April 04, 2020 - 03:21 am: Edit

Jeff Anderson:

While checking rules, remember to check (D17.0).

When the Gorn CA/BC launches five shuttles (or six) you know the four from the balconies are definitely not suicide shuttles, so if there is a risk of being hit by suicide shuttles, you need only worry about the ones from the bays. The ones from the balconies are only dangerous if their phasers arm. That being said, if you see a G-7, you might think about its plasma-Ks, but that is your choice.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Saturday, April 04, 2020 - 02:19 pm: Edit

Under (D17.0):

Under Strategic level S5: "From this point, all targets can be tracked as individual units, except as provided in (F2.6)."

At 16 hexes range (no modifiers) the shuttles on a balcony system can be detected (Level F).

At 12 hexes range (no modifiers) the specific type of shuttle can be identified (level H).

So if you are within 16 hexes of the Gorn ship and can "see" the balcony, you know how many shuttles are on it. And can track each as an individual if they launch, including being able to discern that "those four launched from the balcony, but these two launched from the bay." At 12 hexes range, whether the shuttles have launched from the balcony or not, you can tell that "those three are GAS shuttles, while that third one is a G-7."

[Note that under (D17.91) if you are not using Tactical Intelligence, you always know the information from levels A through K, so if you are not using Tactical Intelligence, you KNOW what shuttles are on the balcony and by type no matter what the range.]

Also note that I am aware that a Gorn CA/BC has six balcony positions, but as I said previously you cannot keep suicide shuttles or wild weasels on a balcony (J1.534), so the only way to have a suicide shuttle or a wild weasel is to keep the shuttle so armed or prepared inside of the bay. And as noted, if you are not playing with Tactical Intelligence, you always know which shuttle was launched from the bay and which shuttles were launched from the balcony, and if you are playing with tactical intelligence if the range is less than 17 hexes and not modified by the electronic warfare situation, you will know that data at range 16 or less. So launching a bunch of shuttles from your balcony is not going to conceal the shuttle launched from the bay.