The Andromedan Battle Station is in model C3 (R10.30) and the construction battle station (BAC) is in module R11 (R10.67).

I propose adding a fourth special build satellite base mounted about the three satellite bases of the BAC.

The fourth sat base would be mounted high enough to not interfere with MWP hangars.

There would only be three sector bases. One at top of each route to the LMC. The sector base would be in the Alpha Octant.

What weapons would be in this fourth sat base?

By Joe Carlson (Jrc) on Thursday, May 07, 2020 - 03:36 pm: Edit

The fourth sat base is a Satellite Mauler Base.

Internally it is different. It has 12 batteries instead of six. The AWR is reduced to 10. The special sensors are removed. The PA panels are distributed in sets of four. The TRHs are replaced TRLs for anti-fighter use. The transporters and bridge are removed. Four additional phaser-2s covering the LR and RR firing arcs.

The mauler can fire from any arc for that turn. The secondary arcs are the ones on either side of the main firing arc.

Shock and when the firing arc is selected hasn't been worked out yet.

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Thursday, May 07, 2020 - 04:13 pm: Edit

Maulers cannot fire at a target more than ten hexes away and are not very effective until the target is at range one (though out to 5 they can bring down a shield, no problem).

They also are very narrow in arc and thus are not at all suitable for use on a base.

By Joe Carlson (Jrc) on Thursday, May 07, 2020 - 04:33 pm: Edit

Would you suggest instead of the mauler and changes adding three additional TRHs and the 4 extra phaser-2s?

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Thursday, May 07, 2020 - 04:38 pm: Edit

I don't have a suggestion for you. I don't think the Andromedans really went for big defensive installation, consider their Desecrator SB compared to galactic SBs.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Thursday, May 07, 2020 - 06:19 pm: Edit

If an Andro base has to fight, it's doomed. You don't need any more weapons than a proportionate share of a BATS.

By Joe Carlson (Jrc) on Thursday, May 07, 2020 - 08:29 pm: Edit

Thanks SVC. If need room on the BBS go ahead and delete.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Friday, May 08, 2020 - 11:56 am: Edit

I didn't say I rejected the smaller and larger bases, just the idea of a special heavy weapons module.

By Joe Carlson (Jrc) on Friday, May 08, 2020 - 12:53 pm: Edit

Okay.

The largest base would be a core model added on top of the first core module and a second BATS mounted on top of the second core model. The second BATS would be rotated so the SAT base are off set to cover the gap between the bottom BATS. This would be a semi mobile star base. I think two Infestors could assemble.

The sector base would be a single SAT base on top of the second core module.

The second core module could be a different type designed for the purposed described above.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Friday, May 08, 2020 - 05:02 pm: Edit

Not wanting to put words in anyone’s mouth, (so to speak), this proposal has some VERY interesting implications.

One of which, is the ability of the Andromedans to add or subtract base modules.

Another is the idea that the Andromedans could plant several bases In relative proximity to each other, and direct traffic in a manner to make tracking the RTN nodes very difficult.

For example, if your empires track three Andromedan ships, each on a slightly different heading, you might try to triangulate the location of the Andromedan base. But if all three ships were on course to a different base, your estimated position fix would be light years off, perhaps even dozens or hundreds of light years wrong. Brilliant piece of misdirection.

Going back to the adding /subtracting modules thing. That means the Andromedans could move bases randomly. Each time they move a base, months or years of observations suddenly become useless.

Gads, I almost feel sorry the game designer who has to model that ability into a tactical game! Grin. Almost!

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Friday, May 08, 2020 - 11:11 pm: Edit

I have not agreed to print the large and small bases but I haven’t said no. I actually thought this was THAT topic.

As for stacking bases on top of each other, I absolutely have not agreed to those. I won’t say no yet, but let’s be clear that I have given no word of encouragement.

By Joe Carlson (Jrc) on Friday, May 08, 2020 - 11:28 pm: Edit

SVC,

Understood.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Saturday, May 09, 2020 - 12:29 am: Edit

With the proviso of no encouragement...

One other possible implication with this proposal, is the Idea of building, upgrading modules on Andromedan bases (again, understood there has been no encouragement...) it’s just a suggestion, but one that would grant the Andromedans an advantage no othe4 empire in the game has.

Specifically the ability to (***in theory***) stack modules, and retain the ability to unstick as needed.

Granted that most likely the Andromedan bases will have different factors than alpha octant empire bases have, it could mean that the Andromedans could move bases as needed. To compare that ability, think about what the Kzinti hegemony would give to pull their at risk Star bases and BTS out of the path of the coalition attacks?

Or worse, if the Andromedans bases ship repair facilities... this raises the Spector of the Andromedans establishing a redoubt somewhere on the alpha octant map. One of the Andromedan weaknesses is low density repair capacity. If the Andromedans occupy the LDR for example and concentrate moving bases there? They could build concentrated stackable bases? Faster than the enemy could build bases.

They may not win, but they could bloody some noses...

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Saturday, May 09, 2020 - 09:08 am: Edit

The Andros already can move all their bases around; I'm not sure what you are saying about that which is new.

By Joe Carlson (Jrc) on Saturday, May 09, 2020 - 12:46 pm: Edit

Option 1)Each Sat Base has 6 TRHs. In making a BATS you 1/3 (6) of the TRHs can't fire. That leaves 12. If you stack a BATS on top you add an additional 12 (total 24).

Option 2)If you put one Sat Base on top of the BATS you end with 18 TRH.

Option 3)If you add a core module to one the Sat Base and then attack another BATs. The two SAT Base attached to the middle core module each loose 2 TRHs. So the total TRH count is 20.

I do not support adding more than 1 core (or special core) module.

Option 3 wastes a lot of the Sat Bases TRHs. I don't think it is viable.

Option 1 has a lot of overhang and it may not be possible for such a structure to stay together.

Option 2 makes the best use of the additional core module and Sat Base. It also doesn't have the perceived structural problems of option 1.

By Jeff Anderson (Jga) on Saturday, May 09, 2020 - 03:59 pm: Edit

I don't want to sound like too much of a jerk (honest!), but in my opinion, if you want to upgrade the defenses of an Andromedan base, there're mobile weapon platform hangar modules (R10.55) and minefields. The latter are a really viable option, thanks to the Andromedans being able to use trans-captor mines (M11.0) or (possibly even) Mobile Mine Platforms (R10.53) to help fill in blanks that minesweeping might cause.

By Joe Carlson (Jrc) on Saturday, May 09, 2020 - 04:51 pm: Edit

Jeff,

I agree. My proposal is about the base. Appreciate you pointing out what other defense the Abdromedans have.

What I am intending is this is the base at the first and next set of nodes where each route enters the Alpha sector. Within this group of nodes the Andromedan forces can't retreat.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Saturday, May 09, 2020 - 05:31 pm: Edit

I do not think that the Andromedans relied on one node within the edge of the Galaxy. They relied on one node up to the edge of the Galaxy, and that node led to several nodes within the Galaxy.

The Andromedans had to rely on the simple fact that the powers within the Galaxy did not routinely patrol the space beyond the edge of the Galaxy, or even along the Galactic rim. After all, if they did, there would be no point in the invasion.

So the base outside the Galaxy was protected by its innocuousness against the background, and provided the connection to several bases within the Galaxy. Any one of which connected to the general line.

Basically no base, no matter how well defended, is impervious to attack. If that is the only base, and the Galactic powers have found it, then it will be destroyed. Adding defenses just makes it harder to evacuate it when it is found by a lowly police ship that stumbles across it and manages to send the word before it is destroyed.

So, what you have outside the Galactic rim is a lone sat base which is the point where Andromedan ships exiting the Galaxy head for the Magellanic cloud. Inside the Galaxy is several bases that arriving Andromedan ships go to to continue moving along the RTN to enter the Galaxy. Any one of these can be moved to avoid the Galactics gaining data, but all are just satellite bases.

The Andromedans set up three of these lines to have further redundancy of their invasion, and used each for a little time so that none was overloaded.

By Joe Carlson (Jrc) on Saturday, May 09, 2020 - 05:52 pm: Edit

SPP,

Is this base "outside the Galaxy" the A-level base in Operation Unity?

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Saturday, May 09, 2020 - 06:07 pm: Edit

Operation Unity says there were at least three routes from the galaxy to the lesser magellanic cloud. Those bases were defined by that campaign.

I just do not see the Andros building fortresses. Their whole system relies on bases that aren't found.

By Joe Carlson (Jrc) on Saturday, May 09, 2020 - 06:37 pm: Edit

SVC and SPP,

Okay. I appreciate that we have a place to make proposal and that both of you look at them. Thank you. Accept the answer that Andros didn't build a base between the BATS and the Starbase.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Saturday, May 09, 2020 - 08:28 pm: Edit

One aspect to consider might be how the Andromedans were obliged to handle the vagaries of the Galactic Energy Barrier.

There are numerous examples of attempts to cross the barrier which caused damage to those ships that made it through, forced other ships to turn back, or led still others to be destroyed somewhere along the way. Even the Iridani Questors, who are the only other known faction to make a regular habit of crossing to and from the Galactic Rim prior to the Andromedan War, are noted as finding crossings to be difficult on occasion.

In the case of the Andromedans, I'm not sure if it's been noted that they are able to use the RTN to cross the barrier at all, or if they have to use the equivalent of operational movement to get from one side to another. Either way, it's possible that there are only a handful of points along the Barrier at which any sort of regular crossing can be made, of which they might have been obliged to pick three (to get into and out of the Alpha Octant) and go from there.

For what it's worth, it would appear that however many routes led into and out of the Omega Octant, these did not necessarily overlap with the routes used by the Iridani to place their own supply docks on either side of the Barrier. So far, only one Andromedan invasion route into Omega has been confirmed to exist, as noted in the Sakharov article in Captain's Log #51. But I've always assumed that at least two others remain to be found - along with some means by which the invaders launched their invasion of the Iridani Cluster.

Which doubles back to the question of bases. Perhaps one reason why the Andromedans might have placed larger bases "inside" the Galactic Rim at the end of each route from the LMC could have been to better facilitate any repairs of ships which had just passed through the Barrier.

Or, for that matter, to facilitate the deployment of Concretor and Immobilator monitors. Since neither unit type has its own displacement device capacity, there might need to be some means by which RTN-capable Motherships of the appropriate size are flown in to the required location and converted on-site. (A construction battle station might perhaps be able to produce a brood of mobile weapon platforms for the monitor to subsequently deploy.) At the very least, such conversions might be needed for any monitors assigned to the "arrival" nodes themselves.

Which is not to say that such a base need be larger than a battle station, but this might perhaps explain the use of something other than a regular satellite base in order to support traffic into a target region of the galaxy.


On a side note, I've been wondering of late whether or not the factors which caused the Andromedans to use the LMC as a springboard for their invasions of the Alpha and Omega Octants apply in their home galaxy as well. In other words, perhaps there is a comparable Barrier surrounding M31 also; in which case, the invaders might have been obliged to conquer one (or more) of Andromeda's own satellite galaxies, so as to use it (or them) as starting locations for the postulated Intergalactic Trunk Line.