In Module R12 is the Fast Naval Transport. It is considered the big brother to a Free Trader.

The the X-ship version (FTX) is in X-1 (R1.205)

I proposed a X-version of the FNT, the FNTX.
It would have an option mount in the bow, a phaser 1 LS and RS, and a phaser-1-360 in the stern. It would have a movement cost of 1/3 and use the FTX engines. It would retain everything else as is. A small freight uses the standard 25 box pod. The FNTX has 4 cargo areas of 20 total cargo boxes.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Monday, May 11, 2020 - 08:56 pm: Edit

What YIS?

IIRC the FNT was built for the final campaign of the Andromedan War.

And what missions/role will it be used for?

By Joe Carlson (Jrc) on Monday, May 11, 2020 - 09:37 pm: Edit

You are thinking of the small fast freighter (F-SF)in Module R11. The YIS is Y200. These small freighter were designed to be used to build bases and were not X-ships.

Make the YIS 192. Role is to supply priority cargo to X-ships, bases, regular technology ships, and planets. This ship is expensive to operate and could have been built after Y183 when FTX went into service. The FTX met the need until the Andros attacked then the cost to build and operate FNTXs was justified.

An Idea for this ship is the cargo boxes can carry fuel. It can refuel 2 ships at once. Refueling equipment fits in space recessed into the sides of the ship.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Tuesday, May 12, 2020 - 09:09 pm: Edit

Indeed.

You are probably correct.

In any event, with three phaser 1s and an option weapon mount in the bow, this is better armed than the vanilla POL (YIS 127)

You could make a case that this design (FNTX) should be the basic naval auxiliary for the Federation (and indeed any alpha empire) for their respective merchant marine service.

Economic as it transports cargo for A fee. With the weaponry listed, it could backup any police units. Since it has the same movement cost as the vanilla small freighter, it functions as a small Q ship. (Bad luck for any small freighters caught by Orion’s... they would have to attack all such hulls to ensure the don’t take an alpha strike thru a downed shield.)

Heck, you could even argue that the addition of so many more armed ships working the trade routes should reduce the losses inflicted by Orion Piracy.

(Quick, some one check on Petrick. When he reads this, his blood pressure just might spike to an all new high.)

By Mike Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Wednesday, May 13, 2020 - 12:16 pm: Edit

Why this instead of a Small Armed Freighter?

1) In the X era there is a limited amount of X eps available. And a LOT of non X eps.

2) Speaking just for myself, I would be buying warships with my X eps.

3) I COULD see some upgraded non X freighters coming into service. So a Small freighter with 2 additional warp engine boxes.

By Joe Carlson (Jrc) on Wednesday, May 13, 2020 - 12:37 pm: Edit

Mike,

The proposed YIS is Y192.

The weapons need to be reduce to 1 phaser-1 360, an option mount, and 2 phaser-3s in LS-RS mounts. The option box is limited to a GX rack, Plasma DX rack, or a phaser-1 FX.

In most scenarios you don't have to but freighters. We also have freighters with various skid and ducktail combination.

We also don't have F&E Andro war.

So you do need something that can supply your X-squadrons. The FNTX will do that mission.

So far freighters with extra engines have not appeared. My own view is the way freighter are made up can't handle the strain of extra engines.

By Joe Carlson (Jrc) on Wednesday, May 13, 2020 - 12:48 pm: Edit

Jeff,

I reduced the proposed weapons. There will not be fleets of these ships. The harder hit empires might build a few. The Feds and Klingons a larger number.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Wednesday, May 13, 2020 - 12:52 pm: Edit

Mike,
Remember that this is still just a proposal.

Nothings been decided yet.

And the addition of two warp power boxes on an armed freighter (I assume with normal small freighter engines) would only bring it up to about the same speed As a vanilla large freighter. (Speed 16 per turn movement using warp power, 17 if 1 point of impulse power is used for movement.)

If the 30 warp hex movement per turn ability of the FNT is too much, I would still push for a speed increase to 24 hexes per turn for a “modern” ( call it X1 post General war era) small and large freighters. (25 hexes per turn including use of 1 point impulse power).

Instead of adopting the armament of the FNT (3 phaser 1’s plus an option weapon box), I would advocate increasing the impulse power of a “Modern”Small freighter drive section to 2 impulse instead of 1 on the vanilla (4 impulse on the large freighter drive module). Plus I would add 1APR in the command module of the small freighter and 2 in the Large freighter.

And while we are at it. I would make a general duck tail and a LASH skid stock equipment on all new small freighters after year 202.

Still cheaper than replacing all freighters in service with X technology.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Wednesday, May 13, 2020 - 01:54 pm: Edit

See the article on Freighters in Captain's Log #23.

It included a refit, starting in Y185, for freighters that added two warp boxes.

One in five (20%) of freighters would have this refit in a scenario from Y185 to Y192. This increases to two in five (40%) after Y192, but does not further increase during the known history.

Note that freighters with this refit are capable of disengagement by acceleration.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Wednesday, May 13, 2020 - 03:11 pm: Edit

Steve:

Was there ever an SSD published showing this refit?

What about the Large Freighter? Did it also receive an engine refit? I could see a case for not giving it a refit, as the small freighter refit would allow the small freighters to keep up with the large freighters.

Thank you for reminding us of the refits.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Wednesday, May 13, 2020 - 03:20 pm: Edit

Jeff Wile:

No SSDs have been published, It is in Captain's Log #23 article on freighters. Yes, it was installed on large freighters and heavy freignters, and therefore obviously would have been installed on Jumbo freighters. It is not applicable to auxiliaries, or to WYN specific freighters.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Wednesday, May 13, 2020 - 03:36 pm: Edit

So... just taking this information in...

There is less need for a XFreighter as the more powerful engines materially improve the operations speed of such freighters.

Now there may be a need for Joe Carlsons fast naval transport X refit.

But the question is, is there a case for a vanilla X freighter?

There is no point for the original small and large freighters to be refitted. The two box engine upgrade is actually better than what an X1 refit would Do.

The refitted Small freighter Xtech refit would IIRC provide 1/3 more warp power... so a small refitted freighter with 6 warp power, given an X1 refit, would result in 8 warp power on a hull that still has 1/3=0.3334 MC. (Note:SFB tactical speed would be 24 hexes per tuur, 25 if a point of impulse power is used.

The X1R refits, again IIRC, would improve each impulse engine on a 1 for 2 base. (1 impulse box generates 2 points of power.)

Nice.

By Joe Carlson (Jrc) on Wednesday, May 13, 2020 - 08:41 pm: Edit

Jeff for Y192 this is a X-freighter.

By Mike Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Thursday, May 14, 2020 - 12:34 pm: Edit

and of course, you have the large and small ARMED freighters. Which are pretty quick.

Your logistics don't need to keep up with you; they need to be fast enough to RV with you.

By Joe Carlson (Jrc) on Thursday, May 14, 2020 - 02:34 pm: Edit

Mike,

I think SPP explained that freighter moved the supplies close to the front lines. The warship cargo carriers from the FFT to the Tug moved the supplies to an area which the front line combat units could RV. That was the GW.

The Andro war is different. They are everywhere and no where. Even a large armed freighter with skids and ducktail mixed in with other freighters are to slow to avoid an Andro raid. Hence the FTX, FNT, and the proposed FNTX. They are fast enough to disengage if intercepted so they can get the critical supplies to the place it is needed.

If you have Model C3A read page 48 "A Future Darkly" The last paragraph is directly related to this proposal. The Andros will attack the supply grid so that the fleets do not have the supplies.

This discussion reminds me of an event in Coast Guard boot camp. Our Company Commander can into the barracks around 2am and yelled attention. Then he yelled too slow do it again. That went on for about 30 minutes. The in and out of the rack game we would never be fast enough. So it goes with freighter armed or not, to slow.

By Joe Carlson (Jrc) on Thursday, May 21, 2020 - 03:23 pm: Edit

Any additional comments?

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Thursday, May 21, 2020 - 05:32 pm: Edit

I think there are fast transports and maybe rare X transports but not X-freighters. The technology is too expensive to put on a ship that cannot run away.

By Joe Carlson (Jrc) on Thursday, May 21, 2020 - 06:23 pm: Edit

SVC,

Just to clarify I have summarized the proposal. Calling it an X-freighter in hind sight is misleading.

I proposed an X version of a Fast Naval Transport (FNT). It uses the same engine as the X-prime trader (FTX) which are 8 box engine. The FTX has a movement cost of 1/2.

The movement cost for the FNT is 1/3. The X-FNT would I presume have the same movement cost (1/3) and with 16 warp would be able to run away.


I am not proposing a X version of a standard freighter. Sorry for the misleading title.

No problem or worries if this doesn't fit the game

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Thursday, May 21, 2020 - 09:52 pm: Edit

Joe, I guess your post back on May 13, 2020 may have misled people. I admit that it appeared to me that you were advocating for an X-freighter.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Thursday, May 21, 2020 - 10:19 pm: Edit

All I see is discussions of fast standard freighters, I think you need to start over with a better definition. Note, I still think this idea FNTX is not workable. But start over and keep the freighters out of the new topic.