Large hull/boom variants
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Star Fleet Battles: SFB Proposals Board:
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R15: SELTORIAN PROPOSALS:
Large hull/boom variants
With a medium shipyard a possibility in this galaxy, and therefore the BCH, DN, DNH and BBL ships possible, may we not have CV, SCS, and PF tender variants where applicable?
While I'd LOVE to see that, John, I honestly don't think it's possible.
It's my understanding (and I could be wrong; I often am 
) that the Hive Ship IS the Seltorian shipyard in this galaxy. Even if they want to change things, they can't. They can't even adjust the production schedule from it.
Now, it is possible that the Klingons helped the Seltorians build another shipyard (I doubt even their Sages could have managed it without help), but I personally don't see that happening either. My reason for that is the response when the Seltorians attempting to escape the ISC Echelon of Justice fled to Klingon space, instead of offering their (former) allies sanctuary, they blew the survivors from space.
My skepticism aside, I do still think it something worth investigating and, if you have anything worked out for WHAT these ships are, I encourage you to submit them.
The CVA/SCS would go under obvious variants, not sure about a DNP though (only the Lyrans and Romulans so far) ...
They do have a DCS with their CA ...
Jeff, from F&E Minor Empires:
(546.51) MEDIUM SHIPYARDS: The Seltorians may only begin construction on a medium shipyard once the setup of a transportable shipyard is complete. It takes six turns plus six EPs per turn to complete a Seltorian medium shipyard. Once complete, the medium shipyard is capable of producing two L-Hulls and three L-Booms per year. See (715.1), (715.13), and the Seltorian Ship Information Table for definitions of L-Hulls and L-Booms and how they create ships. (A dreadnought needs an L-Hull and two L-Booms; a battlecruiser needs an L-Hull and one L-Boom.)
The likelihood is low in a historical game, but the possibility is there for player made non-historical games.
Also, in the Federation and Empire thread, look at the Seltorian SIT. The BBL and DNH are listed, and historically the Seltorians needed Klingon technical assistance to build three boomed ships. So it is possible, and as far as we know only in this galaxy and quadrant.
Stewart, I agree with the CVA/SCS opinion. The DNP might be a strong contender as the Seltorians liked PFs a lot. Look at the HSP, BWP, NSP, and AWP. Also, as the pilots of their fighters were Klingon mercenaries IIRC, large hull PFT variants would likely be preferred.
That the Lyrans and Romulans had them whereas the Seltorians didn't can be due to their historically not having any large booms and large hulls in this galaxy. You know, the whole HS limitation thing.
This is not to say this cannot be explored, but the problem with the Seltorians has always been there very limited existence (five years) and their very limited construction capability (one Hive Ship with two size class 3 bays and four size class 4 bays, reduced to two size class 4 bays by the including of PF mech-links in the two rearmost bays) giving them a very limited order of battle (number of ships built and number of ships arrived with). Adding ships to them is literally going to have to go the Conjectural route. The Klingon empire is economically exhausted and I just do not see them "building Seltorian ships for their allies, and so there is no other source of Seltorian ships until the next wave of Seltorians arrives (in about 100 years).
Good luck next wave of Selts. In 100 years the Tholians are going to have 2x ships in general service...
Mike Grafton:
No. In 100 years the Seltorians will face off against the Subject Empires of the Norks, of which the Tholians will simply be one (along with the Romulans, Klingons, Hydrans ...
Never The Romulans will find a super weapon and take over the galaxy
(one Hive Ship with two size class 3 bays and four size class 4 bays, reduced to two size class 4 bays by the including of PF mech-links in the two rearmost bays)
That's the Nest (R15.26), the Hive (R15.13) has two more SC4 bays...
Norks? Shouldn't that be "Xorks"?
Also, ... about that "100 years". The Tholians may know the travel time from M81 galaxy but how can they know for certain that a follow-up expedition to the Selts that showed up in the Milky Way didn't set off just a few years later? SVC and SPP may know, from a designer/developer perspective, that the Seltorian follow-up won't arrive for another 100 years. But from an "in universe" perspective the Tholians have to at least consider the possibility it will be much sooner.
Stewart W. Frazier:
Teach me to rely on my unreliable memory and open my big mouth without looking at the SSD first (which I have now done confirming my error). Thank you for the correction.
Alan Trevor:
Yes, Xorks.
Slidarian Corporal;
Dear Ketrick, two errors in two posts? Step this way, I think you need a spot of vacation time in the "tanning" booth.
SPP, I'm working on an assumption that both SFB and F&E have the same history in the Star Fleet Universe, and what is true in one game is not contradicted in the other. If I'm wrong, my bad.
Rule (546.51) from F&E Minor Empires paves the way for the possible construction of large hull Seltorian ships. Given their economy, it is very unlikely it would happen. It isn't probable, but is possible.
Due to their limited economy and facilities most of the units in the Seltorian SIT are conjectural, however none is listed as conjectural in the notes column. I infer that means workable plans existed for their construction, but the funds and/or facilities weren't available.
My suggestion for large hull variants is for campaign play.
...but when the LAIRSHIP arrives, then maybe then DNs and BCHs can be built...
In F&E, some things the Seltorians can possibly due depend on permission/help from a host empire. Historically, I suspect the Klingons did not give permission/help with certain things.
Richard, that's correct that the Klingons technologically aided the Seltorians, for example X-tech. If the Klingons shared X-tech, where did they draw the line?
X-tech Seltorians are only rumors, not proven fact. The Klingons WERE suspicious about the Seltorians, take that for what you will.
There's vagueness written into the R15 ship descriptions and an SSD and SIT line item for them. It's good for conversion. I'm just trying to get the addition of a few obvious large hulled variants added for player use.
According to (546.4) in F&E Minor Empires, each Seltorian Hive or Nest Ship is equipped with key components to remotely fabricate a transportable shipyard, or TSY. Actually doing this requires the Hive or Nest Ship [which each have limited "tug" facilities listed under (546.35)] to be assigned this mission over four turns. Once complete, the TSY augments the Hive or Nest Ship's production capacity, as listed under (715.12).
So if a Seltorian player chooses to start building a TSY upon the establishment of their base planet in Spring Y182, the earliest they can complete the TSY is in Fall Y183. So, under (546.51) as quoted above, they could then start work on a medium shipyard in Spring Y184, potentially completing it by Fall Y186.
Alas, there is as yet no F&E scenario in print detailing the ISC intervention against the Seltorians (though I hope one could be worked up eventully), so I'm not sure if it's been clarified as to whether or not the destruction of the Hive Ship historically took place in Spring or Fall Y186. That said, if the ISC had delayed their operation, or if the Pacification itself had not taken place - say, in one of the "Paravian timelines" from Module C6 - perhaps this might have facilitated the deployment of Size Class 2 Seltorian warships in the Alpha Octant from Y187 onwards.
On a side note, I wonder if the Andromedans might have eventually targeted the Hive Ship for destruction, had the ISC not done it for them. Perhaps that might make for an interesting showdown between rival extra-galactic forces...