| Subtopic | Posts | Updated | ||
| Archive through January 08, 2021 | 25 | 01/09 11:04am |
| By Paul Franz (Andromedan) on Friday, January 08, 2021 - 10:20 pm: Edit |
Shawn,
The issue is the following are arcade/video games, not tactical board games:
| By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Friday, January 08, 2021 - 10:31 pm: Edit |
Are *any* of those really modern?
| By wayne douglas power (Wayne) on Friday, January 08, 2021 - 10:34 pm: Edit |
I like SFBOL as the tactical board game it is; not a video or an virtual type of "Modern" game.
| By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Saturday, January 09, 2021 - 09:16 am: Edit |
The recent Ogre Video Game adaptation looks like it is probably what most folks who are looking for a modern implementation have in mind; it still looks to work just like regular Ogre (i.e. turn based on a hex map), but with a 3D view map and animation for combat (i.e. when the Ogre fires missiles, there is pretty missile animation and an explosion in the target hex, on the pretty full color map).
That being said, I also don't think that would work real well for SFB (I mean, I suppose it could, but I wouldn't really want to play tournament games like that. But maybe?), and probably requires a serious, serious investment in game developing.
| By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Saturday, January 09, 2021 - 11:04 am: Edit |
It would be possible, with A LOT of work, to have animated GIF counters (i.e., the drone looks like it's shooting out exhaust, ships blink, phaser fire shows blue blots between units, etc.).
I can't even conceive of how huge the scope of work would be for that, though. Paul F. would need a team of animators and programmers to make it happen, I imagine.
| By Paul Franz (Andromedan) on Saturday, January 09, 2021 - 11:43 am: Edit |
Peter,
I agree that it would take a lot of development. And I am not sure if that is the correct fit for SFB. Though, if we can get the 3D models of ships so that they could be soon on a map like Ogre. That would be a big draw. The tough about modernizing to the degree that Ogre did is the SSDs and how they would look.
My assumption is they would need to look like the ones from Starfleet Command where the ship is more of an abstract view of the ship.
I do a little searching this morning and found a game that even though it is strategic it still uses counters to represent units (possibly it is because it is strategic that it would work). That is Shadow Empire.
Wargamer has an article Worlds Collide: The Future of Board Wargames that seems to indicate that people will play board games on the computer even it is just counters moving around a stylized board.
So currently, if modern means a full screen map with floating status window and windows that will make it easy to add pieces to the board. That is possible. To me, the tough part of about that is the integrating the chat feature which people have relied upon.
SFB is different from most of the board games that I see online during my search. That is most of the board games support multiple moves per turn and then the actions are pretty simple. That is there is no concept of actions occurring in a particular order, which is one of those things that defines Star Fleet Battles and Federation Commander.
So hopefully the client can be improved so that more people will want to play.
Actually, that brings up a question:
Seems that most of the computer games I looked at focus on a single game. Would people want me to have separate clients for each game or at least have you select what type of client you will login as?
Therefore in the chat room and such you would only see people for that one game and the other people logged into the server would be "hidden" from view.
| By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Saturday, January 09, 2021 - 01:00 pm: Edit |
It is also worth noting that Ogre is a way simpler game; there isn't sequenced movement, everything only fires once per turn (well, more or less; the Ogre does a lot, but most units move once and fire once per turn), there isn't allocation every turn, there isn't really internal damage to record (again, the Ogre is more complicated than most units, but there is generally one of those in a given game), ranges are short so the 3/4 view of the map isn't likely to be disorienting (i.e. counting 15+ hexes on a 3/4 orientation map view seems like it would be difficult).
I mean, I can certainly see the appeal to some upgrades like in the Ogre computer version, but again, seems very complicated to make work, I'd imagine.
| By Aaron Staley (Awwwdrat) on Saturday, January 09, 2021 - 01:06 pm: Edit |
I would like to log in for my game of preference only please.
| By Patrick H. Dillman (Patrick) on Saturday, January 09, 2021 - 01:20 pm: Edit |
Login for one game, please.
| By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Saturday, January 09, 2021 - 03:45 pm: Edit |
Those last two seem to be current player change requests which is not what this topic is about, unless someone says that is an obstacle to new players. Paul should do it but I'm not sure it's part of this specific discussion.
| By Ginger McMurray (Gingermcmurray) on Saturday, January 09, 2021 - 05:00 pm: Edit |
What I mean is "doesn't look like a 1990s Java application." I'm definitely not expecting animations or anything like that. I'm also not a UI/UX designer so unfortunately I don't know what else to add to that.
And again, please don't take this as a criticism of your skills or the work you've done. I've done websites, pc, android, and iPhone apps. Some have been "in the wild" and growing for a decade. I understand the passion, patience, and performance it must take to do what you've done
| By Shawn Hantke (Shantke) on Saturday, January 09, 2021 - 05:22 pm: Edit |
Maybe I should have been more clear with what I was posting. I was listing the Star Trek computer games that SFBOL will get compared to and how those games have evolved over time.
Referring to SVCs counter analogy, my though was that by looking at those other games ideas for improving SFBOL would be generated.
My main point was that computer games have evolved over time. I am well aware of the differences between the early text based games and the newest PC games.
How long has SFBOL basically stayed the same? Sure there have been a ton of minor improvements and it get the job done, and works well but how many major facelifts in its history?
How different is the first game in the Starfleet Command series from the last game in the series and how long ago did the last game come out?
SFBOL doesn't have a multimillon dollar budget, three+ years and a hundred person team with which to invest into a "AAA" game.
What can be improved in SFBOL and what is the balance between making bit playable vs being pretty?
The old Ogre game has more units than the old but doesn't use much terrain (So OGRE and not GEV) the new game has terrain but not as many units were added. The AI of the old game was brutal and the new game AI is laughable. Like most new games it was shipped unfinished and they hoped to make enough in sales to improve the AI and ad the rest of the units. As far as I know the sales weren't great and support has been dropped.
Graphically the old Ogre game and the new Ogre game are worlds apart. In my opinion SFBOL looks similar to the old Ogre game. Can it look exactly like the new game, I am not sure. Can it be improved and maybe fall somewhere in between, I sure hope so.
| By Shawn Hantke (Shantke) on Saturday, January 09, 2021 - 05:34 pm: Edit |
Youtube- I agree that some good tutorial videos on using the client would help new players immensely.
Heck even a bunch of videos about just how to play SFB or FC would help. Some videos about tournament play would also be nice.
In the old days when you bought a videogame it came with a manual and many game were unplayable if you didn't read the manual. Now games don't come with manuals and they have built in tutorials that walk you through how to play.
I played 5 or 6 games on SFBOl with friends a few years ago. I am sure the client gets easier over time with familiarity, but the games we played took easily twice as long as a face to face game would have taken. It was nice at the time since we couldn't play face to face but it was so time consuming we basically stopped playing on SFBOL.
| By Paul Franz (Andromedan) on Saturday, January 09, 2021 - 06:21 pm: Edit |
Shawn,
I agree that as you play you learn how the interface works and that the control are antiquated and need to be redone.
The titles you gave were not really helpful due to them being video games. Which is a totally different way of interactive with the computer vs a turn-based approach. I think the games like Shadow Empire, Panzer Corps 2 and the like. They give me a better sense of the controls and information that is displayed.
I agree creating videos is something that I need to do. The first step is writing the scripts of what needs to be shown. Split them up into episodes.
When it comes to videos how to play SFB/FC as in showing the rules of playing SFB/FC might be a little difficult. Those would probably needs to be videos that are split between telling what the rules are and how the rules interact with playing.
| By Ginger McMurray (Gingermcmurray) on Saturday, November 19, 2022 - 12:44 pm: Edit |
I have to admit that I originally tried it and hated it. The interface was very daunting and I didn't have the time back then to devote to learning the ropes. I fiddled around with it some today with help from Nico (Pico?) and was able to get a good grasp of the basics fairly quickly. I'm looking forward to playing with it some more.
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