Hydran Refit for Orion Ships
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Star Fleet Battles: SFB Proposals Board:
New Ships:
R08: ORION PROPOSALS:
Hydran Refit for Orion Ships
Unlike any other species in the "Alpha/Beta" area, any Hydran pirates have to make extensive modifications to the Orion designs just to be able to survive and work on them. Since they have to take all this effort to make the ships work for them anyway, why would they not refit their otherwise fixed weaponry to use local technology?
The idea is simple:
- Any wing-mounted fixed drones are replaced with fusion beams. (Similar to how plasma empires replace the drones with plasma racks.)
- Rear phaser-3s are replaced with Ph-Gs. I assume that each ship with rear Ph-3s would get a single Ph-G in each position (right rear and left rear), for a total of two per ship, regardless of whether they had 1 or 2 Ph-3s in each position. The cost is the loss of the extra Ph-3s (if any) and the inability to use Ph-Gs in the option mounts. If a ship doesn't have Ph-3s (e.g. LR), this item doesn't apply and they can use a single Ph-G in an option mount if desired.
This refit only applies to Orion ships crewed by Hydrans. Orion ships with non-Hydran crews operating in Hydran space do not have the option of this refit.
Mike West:
"Unlike any other species in the "Alpha/Beta" area, any Hydran pirates have to make extensive modifications to the Orion designs just to be able to survive and work on them. Since they have to take all this effort to make the ships work for them anyway, why would they not refit their otherwise fixed weaponry to use local technology?"
Cite Rules reference or published material that specifically supports your statement.
EDIT: I misread the initial statement. You were referring to the Life Support systems of the ships and using that to suggest that other changes would be/could be made. I am well aware of the references to the life support situation, but there is nothing that says they further modified the ships to have phaser-Gs as standard part of the design, and there is not going to be. Drone rack conversions may be discussed [there are no drones in Hydran space so resupplying drone racks would be somewhat tedious on those ships that have them as standard equipment, on the other hand, those ships are so rare in the Orion cartels (enforcer ships and Salvage cruiser hulls only) that it can be ignored and assumed that the limited supply of drones they could acquire would suffice]. There is, after all, rules for Orions with plasma-D racks replacing the drone racks. But Orion Hulls with phaser-Gs replacing the standard phasers on the hull is DOA.
That's fine. Gotta suggest to make sure.
Ok, I still think the option to replaced non-option drones with fusions would be cool. Pick arcs you think make most sense. I would still like to see that.
And, yes, I am making assumptions. I was also explicitly calling them out so they could be denied, challenged, or confirmed. Even the idea that any Orion ship would be modified to handle Hydran crews is an explicit assumption that could be flat out wrong.
If I were going to replace drone racks on Hydran specific Orion ships, I'd put fighters in them.
If they were in the hull, sure. But they are all in the wings. So, I figured fusions made the most sense.
That said, if fighters actually work, I am not opposed to that. The main point is just to put something useful (but not overpowered) in place of the drones.
Color me embarrassed, other than the SAL, I thought they were in the hull, just behind the wing.
Although it is worth noting the repair capable mech links, fighter carrying mech links on the wings, and the SALs have impulse there.
I've always assumed that the wings on Orion ships are one-deck thick, so it's possible for the crew to access the weapons and such mounted on the wings.
Garth L. Getgen
I got to support Dave Merritt. Fighters...
The other interesting data point is that an Orion option mount can be one of the following:
- Cargo (can be in any option mount)
- Hull (cannot be in a wing mount)
- Barracks (cannot be in a wing mount)
Something an option mount canNOT be:
- Shuttle box (anywhere)
Considering that no option mount can be a shuttle (and thus fighter) box, and anything designed to hold more complex systems than "open space" in wing option mounts, I doubt replacing wing drone mounts with fighters is possible.
Presumably any repair capable parts of wing PF mech links is accomplished with collapsible repair bays.
So ... I'll stick with the request for fusion beams. As SPP states, it only really applies to two hull forms (CA/BC/BCH and SAL).
As there are no cartels that operate exclusively in Hydran territory, and as both cartels that operate in Hydran territory (Daven and Hamilcar) have significantly greater operations in Klingon territory, I think it's largely a moot matter; the drone racks should stay.
Fighters on Orion ships other than carriers, even in the fighter rich Hydran empire, is a non-starter. These are Orion ships even if they were crewed by Hydrans, not Hydran ships.
Another point that should be considered is that Orion ships do not remain with one cartel all their service lives, but move from cartel to cartel (for various reasons, not just limited to a failure of an enforcer captain to become the new crime lord of the cartel).
I would further comment that while it would doubtless be a major pain, the Orions could have a few Hydrans on any of their ships. The Hydrans by definition would probably only have their quarters simulate their own biologic needs and would otherwise wear encounter suits while on duty. That such encounter suits are possible for their biology is aptly demonstrated by the 140 Hydran marines currently pounding on your bridge hatch. That is to say the technology involved in the encounter suits allows a marine to function as if the environment was suitable for shirt sleeves, even though your ship is a Tholian cruiser (and the same applies if Tholians were boarding a Hydran ship, much less one of the various species in between, i.e., Terran (and Federation member species), Klingon (and Klingon subject species), Romulan, Kzinti, Gorn, Andromedan (well, their boarding robots anyway), Lyran, ISC (as a group of their different species), Seltorian, Jindarian, Vudar, Carnivon (if survivors of their species were encountered), Paravian (ditto as the Carnivons), Borak, Peladine (whether Ranel or Dolphin), and so on.
Would this be something like the "life support belts" seen in the animated series? Prior artwork for Hydran environmental suits looked quite bulky (if I am remembering it correctly).
Douglas Saldana:
There are no modifiers for boarding a ship with different atmospheric properties than the boarders are used to, whether the extremes of Hydrans boarding Tholian ships or vice versa, whether the boarders are Humans on a Tholian ship or Hydran ship, or, again, vice versa. So it is what it is. And there are apparently enough encounter suits that you can, in addition to the marines, send over crew to help operate the ship once you have captured it, so the technology is apparently readily available.
If I might hazard a guess?
The personnel in the Boarding Parties are well trained professionals. As such, they have enough experience working (or even LIVING) in their encounter suits that they're like a second skin.
In SFB, this is reflected by standard Boarding Parties being two per Crew Unit where Militia, the regular science/engineering personnel on temporary assignment as infantry, are one BP equivalent per Crew Unit.
Getting back to working/living in their environment suits, I suspect professional Marines may even use them in non-hostile environments, just for the additional protection they provide from stuff like CS gas.
(Like I said, just hazarding a guess. 
)
As stated in the first post, this suggestion is only for Hydran crewed ships. Not ships that have a couple Hydrans in the crew, but ships that are predominately Hydrans. If that is a condition that never happens, then so be it. That's fine.
I know that no Cartel has Hydran territory as their home territory. That is why the refit was tied to Hydran crews, not operational areas. That was deliberate.
The point of the suggestion was to give the option for a little more Hydran flavor for what would be virtually unique ships.
Also, "No," is an acceptable answer I am more than happy to accept. If I don't try ideas that I think are cool, they have no chance. Also, if they are rejected, then I can always use the idea on my website, so, honestly, it works for me either way. But, rather than just assume a "No" answer, I want to get the actual "No".
I think it would be rare for Hydrans to serve on non-Hydran ships and certainly no one would want to make a career of it. It's one thing to wear an encounter suit for a few hours (or even a few days) but it's another to have to wear one on duty for months on end. When off duty, a Hydran would be a virtual prisoner in their own quarters.
Even shore leave would be complicated given that the ship is likely visiting planets and stations with which the majority of the crew is compatible.
Mike West:
And as I pointed out, it is not going to happen.
As to crews in encounter suits, consider the ISC which has crews that include water creatures. Consider Orion pirates in the Lyran sector have some Phelan crew members (water creatures again). Consider Vudar crew on Orion ships that need radiation that would kill non-Vudar. You can also consider that there were lots of Lyran and Klingon colonists when the Hydrans retook their kingdom the first time, and those provided crew for ships (not all of them, most had no interest and just wanted to live their lives).
So, no, we are not going to refit Orion ships to be Hydran specific with only Hydrans in the crew.
But they can still swap Phasers for Hellbores on a one for one basis right?
No.
What about Orion fighters armed with PPDs?
No
There would be PPD on some Orion ships in the Kublai, Omega and Cirentus-Ta Cartels.
(the closest to a PPD fighter would be Paravian fighters)
Just shows that a proposal, no matter how ridiculous, will find someone that takes it seriously.
o_O