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Problem is that the TC field has become completely ossified. It is what it is and the powers that be aren't changing it, period. I have yet to see any argument sway SPP or SVC to change the TC field in many years.

Maybe that's good. The current Andro is so utterly useless that it's effectively excluded as a serious contender, and personally that's fine with me. I've always strongly believed the Andro does not belong in sanctioned tourneys.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Thursday, July 23, 2020 - 12:39 pm: Edit

Andy wrote:
>>Don't know why a fudge or 2 for the Andro is so anathema.>>

Heh, like, I don't actually think it is *necessary* to make up new rules to make the Andro work. The 3xBTTY ship is almost good (we both played it, we both played against it :-). Tweak the guns to a reasonable balance. Maybe if it goes 3xTRL, up the internals a little bit (maybe 2 more power as Brian suggested, maybe a few more hull/cargo to protect the batteries a little longer). That'd probably work.

By Ginger McMurray (Gingermcmurray) on Thursday, July 23, 2020 - 02:32 pm: Edit

I'd gotten it into my head that Orions could only double one engine per turn. I have no idea why. Maybe there's a scenario that specifies it?

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Thursday, July 23, 2020 - 03:00 pm: Edit

Heh, nah, in the tournament, the Orions can double normally and use the regular rules (i.e. they can double LW, or RW, or Both, and/or Impulse, and they lose 1 box from whichever they double, so if they double both Warp and their Impulse, they burn out 3 energy boxes at the end of the turn).

By Jack Taylor (Jtaylor) on Thursday, July 23, 2020 - 09:54 pm: Edit

I think the initial play testing should be focused on BP. It seems to me that if plasma ships still can't beat it...like hardly ever...then it is still broken and should not be in a tournament until it is fixed. Only my opinion of course.

Peter - does the Andromedan really have power problems against a plasma ship that can't really get plasma hits without bolting? I mean- you probably are not at reinforced levels on the panels without bolts. And you don't need to charge phasers every turn as there are no drones. So aren't you just screaming around the board, displacing when you need to, and turning to get inside your opponent and on a rear shield just like back then?

By Brian Evans (Romwe) on Thursday, July 23, 2020 - 11:08 pm: Edit

Jack Said: "I think the initial play testing should be focused on BP. It seems to me that if plasma ships still can't beat it...like hardly ever...then it is still broken and should not be in a tournament until it is fixed. Only my opinion of course."

If this is really a problem, then the Fed is broken and should be removed from the tournament. The Fed very rarely beats the heavy droners, and almost never wins against BP. RPS is what it is. Most ships have bad RPS matchups. So I don't think that is a realistic expectation, that no ships have bad matchups against the Andro.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Saturday, July 25, 2020 - 08:29 am: Edit

Jack wrote:
>>Peter - does the Andromedan really have power problems against a plasma ship that can't really get plasma hits without bolting?>>

Having played the 3x btty version numerous times (both as the Andro and against the Andro), against plasma ships, it would generally end up slowing down enough late in the game that plasmas could catch and hit the thing. Early on, it needs to go fast to avoid plasmas, and possibly displace over them, etc. But after running from plasma for a few turns without taking a bunch of damage (or taking a bunch of damage, and having trouble emptying panels), the ship runs out of power and slows down. And then plasmas can start hitting it.

Like, it isn't a slam dunk for plasma or anything, but with patience and persistence, the plasma ship can eventually kill it.

By Jack Taylor (Jtaylor) on Wednesday, November 15, 2023 - 07:51 pm: Edit

I have played the neo-Tholian a few times now on both ends. I think if the FH P-1's were FX it might almost be decent. I don't think it would become too strong, just a lot better. As it is now, it is difficult to win in it against almost everything.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Thursday, November 16, 2023 - 05:47 pm: Edit

Like, I have played the Neo a bunch, with not spectacular results. It's almost good, even with the 40 power, but there are some ships (Fed, Shark, Hydran) that can take the very obtuse strategy of "Go forward at moderate speeds and arm weapons", and the NTC doesn't really have a chance.

Like, the main issue with the NTC is that the ATC is just plain better. Better phasers and phaser arcs, the wall eyed disruptors, the extra snare, the stronger flank shields. Everything that the Tholian is good at doing, the ATC is just better at doing than the NTC. I dunno that it is really worth the effort to upgrade the NTC any further, as you can always just play the ATC, and will likely do better.

I mean, I like the NTC, and would love for it to be a better ship. And I don't think it is *terrible*; like, Dana has a long history of doing well in it. But still, the ATC is just gonna be better most of the time, until you prop the NTC up so much that it is completely insane.

By Paul Franz (Andromedan) on Monday, January 08, 2024 - 10:52 pm: Edit

Back to my favorite topic. The Andromedan TKC and how to make it a ship with an overall chance of winning.

The current Andromedan ship has 2xTRH, 6xP2s, 3xBtty and 28 power. As was pointed out earlier in this topic by Peter, the issue I that will 3xBtty it runs out of power. I agree with that. It is too easy for an opponent to run you out of power and then you have a very slow moving Andromedan that is dead meat. My recommendation is to revert the power to one of the past. That is give the Andromedan 32 power (possibly 4 AWRs instead of 4 APRs, but that is debatable).


Personally, I think the Andromedan needs a little more defense. But before people scream that it does not need more defense that it is too strong already. I don't think so. Because of the 3xBtty the Andromedan has no way to do a panel dump without taking two turns. I think the solution is not to give the Andromedan a fourth Btty. But to give it an 5 point Energy Module. I think this could allow the Andromedan to do 1 panel dump and still limit the amount of power that the Andromedan has available.

Also, the benefit of using an EM is that it can easily be tweaked.

By Jeff Guthridge (Jeff_Guthridge) on Tuesday, January 09, 2024 - 12:24 am: Edit

The idea I had (which I can already hear the screaming about) is to separate the six forward panels into two banks of three (no change in coverage, just an administrative change), like we see on the SSD. Allow each panel bank (groups shown on the SSD) to be dumped independently in order to limit the amount of released power.

I don't see swapping 4 APR for 4 AWR being much help. Adding two extra AWR might do the trick, you don't need more than two AWR power anyway with only one DisDev.

Other ideas would be a 7th (or even 8th) PH2 with a RH arc, allowing a larger phaser cap without changing the centerline alpha strike.

I like the idea of an EM, it would tend to offer options the current Andro doesn't have. Should there be restrictions on its recovery after launch over and above the normal rules?

Lots of interesting ideas here.

By Paul Franz (Andromedan) on Tuesday, January 09, 2024 - 12:53 pm: Edit

Jeff,
The splitting of the banks will not work, due to the way panel dumping works. When you turn off a bank of panels, the energy is sloshed to the other banks. That would mean that when you turn off one of the front panels, it will slosh to other front panel and the rear panel. Making doing a panel dump (i.e. transferring the panel energy into the batteries quickly) even more difficult..

When it comes to power, I apologize for not being clear. The current configuration of a Andromedan ship is 24 warp, 2 impulse and 2 APR. A past configuration was 24 warp, 4 impulse and 4 apr (changed to 4 AWR at one point). The benefit of changing APR to AWR is just so that the Andromedan would not need to use movement warp to recharge the DisDev.

Personally, I would love having an additional phaser. It would help with the fight with the Kzinti. Andromedan always have issues with drones from them because of the 3 Type-IV-Fs. If the Kzinti launches 4 drones with 3 Type-IV-Fs in that mix the Andromedan has a hard time knocking all 4 drones down. So invariably one has to hit and you are guessing (because of the limited labs) to figure out which one I the Type-I-F.

When it comes to the EM, I think the standard rules apply. The issue with putting the EM out is that it is an immediate target. Good for the Andromedan to have something other than the ship to target but it means most probably the Andromedan will never recover it.

By Jack Taylor (Jtaylor) on Saturday, March 02, 2024 - 04:30 pm: Edit

I think I have offered up this idea before but I will offer it up again if not.

I believe the Neo-Tholian tournament ship would become a much more viable ship with one simple change. I think all the ship needs is the to change the FH P1's to FX.

Easy Peezy.