Twin Phasers (Phaser-Ts)
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Star Fleet Battles: SFB Proposals Board: New Rules: (E) Weapons: Twin Phasers (Phaser-Ts)
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Archive through August 11, 2022  25   08/12 11:57am
By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Thursday, August 11, 2022 - 05:55 pm: Edit

Ignorance? Stupidity?NIMBY?

Take your pick.

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandar) on Thursday, August 11, 2022 - 07:56 pm: Edit

I have been following this discussion and trying to see where it will lead. Perhaps it is not so much as the space needed for the phaser?

The phaser-2 uses as much power as a Phaser-1. Yet does less damage. Something to do with the fire control eqpt. The klingons and Hydrans managed to upgrade their phaser-2 to phaser-1s. Still not all of them.

All phasers connect to a central capacitor. They share that power and can be fired from it. Gats can pull 1/4 point per pulse. 4ph-3 for 1 power. Pulled all at once or 1/4 per impulse. Phaser-1 and 2 1 per use and phaser-3 1/2 point per use. (those •••• 1/2 points and 1/4 points suck when doing math)

Most phasers can fire one shot each turn and not with in 8 impulses. They would what burn out explode if done? A PH-G (gat) pulls power and fires. Why not a PH-1 that fires 4 times. Or even a Twin Phaser-1 or 2.

We know we can download a phaser and fire as a PH-3. But still only once a turn. X-ships can I believe fire as 2 ph-3. So that is a PH-T.

I do not think it is a space problem. More like a fire control power issue. Something that can be down when X-tech comes out but not before.

The PH-G (Gat) was developed by the Hydrans. Sold /stolen by Orians and FEDS. Why did not the Kzinti or Klingons use it? The LDR did but with Hydran help. The Hydrans tried to mount twin Gats instead of fusions on their fighters' •••• things burned up.

The cost of the Fire control and power connections. Then the overheating issue. Who would want twin phasers that might burn up after one use.

Then there is the game issue itself. If The FEDs with out seekers get it? Why not everyone else? Changing all the SSDs game rules YUCK.

By Mike Erickson (Mike_Erickson) on Thursday, August 11, 2022 - 10:44 pm: Edit

<posted to wrong section>

By Mike West (Mjwest) on Friday, August 12, 2022 - 11:07 am: Edit

Quote:

Sold /stolen by Orians and FEDS.

Short point of order. The Feds only bought fighter gatling technology from the Hydrans. They developed ship gatling technology on their own. (The Orions did, of course, steal both.)

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandar) on Friday, August 12, 2022 - 11:57 am: Edit

We know the truth. The FEDS stole the TECH. The Federation is nothing but a Vulcan puppet state.

By Mike West (Mjwest) on Friday, August 12, 2022 - 01:11 pm: Edit

Well, considering that the canonical return for the fighter gatling tech was "banana pudding", you can probably say they did effectively steal it.

By Jeff Guthridge (Jeff_Guthridge) on Friday, August 12, 2022 - 02:48 pm: Edit

While this is a fascinating suggestion, I'm starting to wonder about something that is neither directly accounted for in the player facing rules, nor mentioned in this topic.

The strength of the computerized subsystems to control the ships weapons. Cost in a general sense has been discussed in other places (Klingons and their pre-refit Ph-2 secondaries come instantly to mind).

Incidentally this one aspect of FASA's Star Trek ship combat game's creation rules governs how much weaponry a custom designed ship can have. Its also one of the sticky issues that I've seen mentioned as one of the reasons we don't have that custom ships rules supplement for SFB. (That FASA system is broken in so many ways... The Andromedians would LOVE to have the phaser rules from that system, but I digress)

That is enough background, here's my points:

If I understand the Ph-T concept correctly it is in effect trying to be the budget version of the Ph-G, easier to produce and cheap enough to be everywhere. According to E2.151 a Ph-G can fire at multiple targets in the same impulse. This makes that system a highly sophisticated setup, its more than just extra electrical plumbing and capacitors, energy savings per shot also eludes to this.

I could see a 'double-barreled Ph-3' as a budget friendly intermediate step if it lacked the subsystems for independent simultaneous targeting, it would seem something closer to what could be developed as an intermediate step between the systems without having to build the sophisticated Ph-G fire control and tracking integrations.

However, it would only ever be an intermediate tech. Discarded as soon as X-ship tech was on the horizon and forgotten after it arrives. Anyone ever see a Type-II-Medium drone?

For purposes of experimental playtesting, I would suggest limiting the Ph-T to firing one or two shots at ONE target per impulse. The limit of no less than 12 impulses between single shots (similar to Drone-Cs). I would further recommend that if a single Ph-T system fires both shots during a single impulse those two shots would have to be a narrow salvo. Real-world multi-mount weapons work this way after all, and they use a single-point of aim for all weapons, even when they are select fired.

By Ken Kazinski (Kjkazinski) on Friday, August 12, 2022 - 06:51 pm: Edit

Doug you are correct on the B-17 being the first 2xP-3 shuttle.

Unit TypeYear In ServiceWeapon Display
C-52xP-3-FA
C-52xP-3-RA
B-171602xP-3-360°
B-361622xP-3-FX
B-52A/B1652xP-3-FX
F-71672xP-3-360°
B-571682xP-3-FX
B-571682xP-3-RX
E-2p SWAC1712xP-3-360°
F-14p1712xP-3-FA
F-14Ep1722xP-3-FA
F-15Ep1722xP-3-FA
F-121732xP-3-FA
F-16p1732xP-3-FA
F-16Ep1732xP-3-FA
B-581732xP-3-FX
F-181732xP-3-FA
F-18E1732xP-3-FA
F-201752xP-3-FA
F-20E1752xP-3-FA
F-18B1772xP-3-FA
F-18BE1772xP-3-FA
F-111p1772xP-3-FX
F-12B1772xP-3-FA
F-14Ap1772xP-3-FA
E-3p SWAC1782xP-3-360°
F-111pM1792xP-3-FX
F-14pM1792xP-3-FA
F-14ApM1792xP-3-FA
B-52A/BM1792xP-3-FX
F-15EpM1792xP-3-FA
F-14EpM1792xP-3-FA
FB-111p1792xP-3-FX
FB-111pM1792xP-3-FX
B-36M1792xP-3-FX
B-57M1792xP-3-FX
B-57M1792xP-3-RX
B-58M1792xP-3-FX
F-18M1792xP-3-FA
F-18EM1792xP-3-FA
F-18BM1792xP-3-FA
F-16EpM1792xP-3-FA
F-18BEM1792xP-3-FA
F-16pM1792xP-3-FA
F-20M1792xP-3-FA
F-20EM1792xP-3-FA
F-7A1802xP-3-360°
F-18B+M1802xP-3-FA
B-291802xP-3-360°
F-18B+1802xP-3-FA
E-3Ap SWAC1802xP-3-360°
E-2Ap SWAC1802xP-3-360°
B-1p1812xP-3-RA
B-1pM1812xP-3-RA
B-2p1822xP-3-RA
B-2pM1822xP-3-RA
F-14BpM1832xP-3-FA
F-20C1832xP-3-FA
F-20CE1832xP-3-FA
F-18C1832xP-3-FA
F-18CM1832xP-3-FA
F-15Cp1832xP-3-FA
F-15CpM1832xP-3-FA
F-14Bp1832xP-3-FA
F-16CEp1832xP-3-FA
F-16CEpM1832xP-3-FA
F-12C1832xP-3-FA
F-20CEM1832xP-3-FA
F-20CM1832xP-3-FA
F-16Cp1832xP-3-FA
F-16CpM1832xP-3-FA
F-15Dp1852xP-3-FA
F-15DpM1852xP-3-FA
F-14Cp1902xP-3-FA
F-14CpM1902xP-3-FA
F-14Dp1952xP-3-FA
F-14DpM1952xP-3-FA

By Douglas Saldana (Dsal) on Saturday, August 13, 2022 - 12:21 am: Edit

Looking at other empires, it appears that only the Hydrans had 2xP3 on a shuttle earlier than the Federation (and only on their original bomber).

By Ken Kazinski (Kjkazinski) on Saturday, August 13, 2022 - 02:51 pm: Edit

Here is the list of all shuttles/fighters with "2xP-3"

EmpireUnit TypeYear In ServiceWeapon Display
FederationC-52xP-3-FA
FederationC-52xP-3-RA
HydranSK-11352xP-3-RA
SharkhunterHelo-MRS1502xP-3-360°
LyranMRS1502xP-3-360°
GornMRS1502xP-3-360°
ParavianMRS1502xP-3-360°
ISCMRS1502xP-3-360°
ParavianMRS1502xP-3-360°
LDRMRS1542xP-3-360°
FederationB-171602xP-3-360°
GornG-171602xP-3-360°
BorakHK-B1602xP-3-FA
RomulanMRS1602xP-3-360°
FederationB-361622xP-3-FX
FRAD2A1622xP-3-FH
FederationB-52A/B1652xP-3-FX
KzintiBMR1652xP-3-FX
KzintiBMR1652xP-3-RX
WYNBMR1652xP-3-FX
WYNBMR1652xP-3-RX
OrionG-F1652xP-3-FA
RomulanG-F1652xP-3-FA
WYNG-F1652xP-3-FA
SharkhunterHelo-MRS1652xP-3-360°
ISCMRS1652xP-3-360°
RomulanMRS1652xP-3-360°
GornMRS1652xP-3-360°
FederationF-71672xP-3-360°
GornG-71672xP-3-360°
FederationB-571682xP-3-FX
FederationB-571682xP-3-RX
BorakHK-C1682xP-3-FA
QariTu-951682xP-3-RX
FRAD2B1702xP-3-FH
KlingonZ-31702xP-3-FA
KlingonZ-3T1702xP-3-FA
FederationE-2p SWAC1712xP-3-360°
FederationF-14p1712xP-3-FA
KzintiAMR1722xP-3-FX
KzintiAMR1722xP-3-RX
FraxDev-21722xP-3-RX
FederationF-14Ep1722xP-3-FA
FederationF-15Ep1722xP-3-FA
RomulanG-FE1722xP-3-FA
JindarianMeteorite-11722xP-3-RX
TholianS-III1722xP-3-FA
KlingonZ-3E1722xP-3-FA
FederationB-581732xP-3-FX
FederationF-121732xP-3-FA
FederationF-16Ep1732xP-3-FA
FederationF-16p1732xP-3-FA
OrionF-181732xP-3-FA
WYNF-181732xP-3-FA
FederationF-181732xP-3-FA
GornF-181732xP-3-FA
KrebizF-181732xP-3-FA
GornF-18E1732xP-3-FA
FederationF-18E1732xP-3-FA
GornG-181732xP-3-FA
GornG-18E1732xP-3-FA
RomulanG-SF1732xP-3-FA
WYNG-SF1732xP-3-FA
RomulanG-SFE1732xP-3-FA
KrebizKRILL-F1732xP-3-FA
PeladineP-11732xP-3-FA
PeladineP-1E1732xP-3-FA
PeladineP-21732xP-3-FA
PeladineP-2E1732xP-3-FA
ParavianTC1732xP-3-FA
ParavianTCE1732xP-3-FA
JindarianMeteor-21742xP-3-FA
JindarianMeteor-2E1742xP-3-FA
JindarianPlanetoid-11742xP-3-RX
ISCSF1742xP-3-FA
FlivverF-21752xP-3-FA
FederationF-201752xP-3-FA
FederationF-20E1752xP-3-FA
BorakFD-C1752xP-3-FA
GornG-201752xP-3-FA
GornG-20E1752xP-3-FA
KzintiLAS1752xP-3-FX
KzintiLAS1752xP-3-RX
WYNLKS1752xP-3-FX
WYNLKS1752xP-3-RX
KzintiLKS1752xP-3-FX
KzintiLKS1752xP-3-RX
FraxDev-2F1762xP-3-RX
CarnivonHY-31762xP-3-FA
CarnivonHY-3E1762xP-3-FA
CarnivonJK-41762xP-3-FA
CarnivonJK-4E1762xP-3-FA
JindarianMeteor-31762xP-3-FA
JindarianMeteor-3E1762xP-3-FA
PeladineP-1A1762xP-3-FA
TholianS-H1762xP-3-RX
TholianS-HP1762xP-3-RX
FraxDemon-31772xP-3-FA
FraxDemon-3E1772xP-3-FA
FraxDemon-3EM1772xP-3-FA
FraxDemon-3M1772xP-3-FA
FraxDev-2FM1772xP-3-RX
FraxDev-2M1772xP-3-RX
FederationF-111p1772xP-3-FX
FederationF-12B1772xP-3-FA
FederationF-14Ap1772xP-3-FA
OrionF-18B1772xP-3-FA
FederationF-18B1772xP-3-FA
GornF-18B1772xP-3-FA
GornF-18BE1772xP-3-FA
FederationF-18BE1772xP-3-FA
KzintiLFS1772xP-3-FX
KzintiLFS1772xP-3-RX
KzintiLKF1772xP-3-FX
KzintiLKF1772xP-3-RX
WYNLKF1772xP-3-FX
WYNLKF1772xP-3-RX
JindarianMeteorite-21772xP-3-RX
QariMiG-231772xP-3-FA
QariMiG-23E1772xP-3-FA
QariMiG-23EM1772xP-3-FA
QariMiG-23M1772xP-3-FA
QariMiG-291772xP-3-FA
QariMiG-29E1772xP-3-FA
QariMiG-29EM1772xP-3-FA
QariMiG-29M1772xP-3-FA
OrionTAAS1772xP-3-FA
WYNTAAS1772xP-3-FA
KzintiTAAS1772xP-3-FA
WYNTAAS-E1772xP-3-FA
OrionTAAS-E1772xP-3-FA
KzintiTAAS-E1772xP-3-FA
ParavianTSI1772xP-3-RA
ParavianTSI1772xP-3-RX
QariTu-221772xP-3-FA
QariTu-221772xP-3-RA
QariTu-22M1772xP-3-FA
QariTu-22M1772xP-3-RA
QariTu-95M1772xP-3-RX
KlingonZ-3EM1772xP-3-FA
KlingonZ-3M1772xP-3-FA
LyranZ-Y1772xP-3-FA
LDRZ-Y1772xP-3-FA
WYNZ-Y1772xP-3-FA
SeltorianZ-Y1772xP-3-FA
KlingonZ-Y1772xP-3-FA
OrionZ-Y1772xP-3-FA
KrebizZ-Y1772xP-3-FA
KlingonZ-YE1772xP-3-FA
SeltorianZ-YE1772xP-3-FA
WYNZ-YE1772xP-3-FA
LDRZ-YE1772xP-3-FA
LyranZ-YE1772xP-3-FA
KlingonZ-YEM1772xP-3-FA
LyranZ-YEM1772xP-3-FA
KlingonZ-YM1772xP-3-FA
KlingonZ-YT1772xP-3-FA
CarnivonDG-2i1782xP-3-FX
CarnivonDG-2i1782xP-3-RX
FederationE-3p SWAC1782xP-3-360°
VudarElectron1782xP-3-FA
VudarElectron-M1782xP-3-FA
JindarianMeteor-HI1782xP-3-RX
SharkhunterNrv Prcr1782xP-3-FA
SharkhunterNrv Prcr-E1782xP-3-FA
SharkhunterNrv Prcr-F1782xP-3-FA
TholianS-IV1782xP-3-RX
TholianS-IVP1782xP-3-RX
TholianS-IVS1782xP-3-RX
VudarTachyon1782xP-3-FA
VudarTachyon-M1782xP-3-FA
ParavianTSFI1782xP-3-RX
LDRZ-B41782xP-3-RX
SeltorianZ-B41782xP-3-RX
LyranZ-B41782xP-3-RX
KlingonZ-B41782xP-3-RX
KlingonZ-B4M1782xP-3-RX
LDRZ-YEM1782xP-3-FA
KzintiAMRM1792xP-3-FX
KzintiAMRM1792xP-3-RX
FederationB-36M1792xP-3-FX
FederationB-52A/BM1792xP-3-FX
FederationB-57M1792xP-3-FX
FederationB-57M1792xP-3-RX
FederationB-58M1792xP-3-FX
BorakBM-D1792xP-3-LS
BorakBM-D1792xP-3-RS
BorakBM-DM1792xP-3-LS
BorakBM-DM1792xP-3-RS
KzintiBMRM1792xP-3-FX
KzintiBMRM1792xP-3-RX
FederationF-111pM1792xP-3-FX
FederationF-14ApM1792xP-3-FA
FederationF-14EpM1792xP-3-FA
FederationF-14pM1792xP-3-FA
FederationF-15EpM1792xP-3-FA
FederationF-16EpM1792xP-3-FA
FederationF-16pM1792xP-3-FA
FederationF-18BEM1792xP-3-FA
FederationF-18BM1792xP-3-FA
FederationF-18EM1792xP-3-FA
GornF-18EM1792xP-3-FA
FederationF-18M1792xP-3-FA
FederationF-20EM1792xP-3-FA
FederationF-20M1792xP-3-FA
FederationFB-111p1792xP-3-FX
FederationFB-111pM1792xP-3-FX
BorakFD-AM1792xP-3-FA
BorakFD-BM1792xP-3-FA
GornG-18EM1792xP-3-FA
GornG-18M1792xP-3-FA
GornG-20EM1792xP-3-FA
GornG-20M1792xP-3-FA
RomulanG-FEM1792xP-3-FA
RomulanG-FM1792xP-3-FA
RomulanG-SFEM1792xP-3-FA
RomulanG-SFM1792xP-3-FA
BorakHK-DM1792xP-3-FA
CarnivonKO1792xP-3-RX
KrebizKRILL-H1792xP-3-FA
KzintiLASM1792xP-3-FX
KzintiLASM1792xP-3-RX
KzintiLFSM1792xP-3-FX
KzintiLFSM1792xP-3-RX
KzintiLKFM1792xP-3-FX
KzintiLKFM1792xP-3-RX
KzintiLKSM1792xP-3-FX
KzintiLKSM1792xP-3-RX
JindarianMeteor-HIF1792xP-3-RX
JindarianMeteorite-31792xP-3-RX
PeladineP-1AM1792xP-3-FA
PeladineP-1EM1792xP-3-FA
PeladineP-1M1792xP-3-FA
PeladineP-2EM1792xP-3-FA
PeladineP-2M1792xP-3-FA
JindarianPlanetoid-21792xP-3-RX
TholianS-HM1792xP-3-RX
TholianS-HPM1792xP-3-RX
TholianS-IM1792xP-3-FA
TholianS-IVM1792xP-3-RX
TholianS-IVPM1792xP-3-RX
TholianS-IVSM1792xP-3-RX
HydranSK-1M1792xP-3-RA
HydranSt-1F+M1792xP-3-FA
HydranSt-1FM1792xP-3-FA
HydranSt-FpeM1792xP-3-FA
HydranSt-FpM1792xP-3-FA
KzintiTAAS-EM1792xP-3-FA
KzintiTAASM1792xP-3-FA
Canadi'enAcorn-31802xP-3-FA
Canadi'enAcorn-3D1802xP-3-FA
Canadi'enAcorn-3E1802xP-3-FA
Canadi'enAcorn-3EM1802xP-3-FA
Canadi'enAcorn-3M1802xP-3-FA
FederationB-291802xP-3-360°
TriaxianCal-21802xP-3-FA
TriaxianCal-2E1802xP-3-FA
TriaxianCal-2EM1802xP-3-FA
TriaxianCal-2M1802xP-3-FA
FraxDemon-41802xP-3-FA
FraxDemon-4E1802xP-3-FA
FraxDemon-4EM1802xP-3-FA
FraxDemon-4M1802xP-3-FA
CarnivonDG-2iM1802xP-3-FX
CarnivonDG-2iM1802xP-3-RX
FederationE-2Ap SWAC1802xP-3-360°
FederationE-3Ap SWAC1802xP-3-360°
FederationF-18B+1802xP-3-FA
GornF-18B+1802xP-3-FA
FederationF-18B+M1802xP-3-FA
FlivverF-31802xP-3-FA
FederationF-7A1802xP-3-360°
ISCFKF1802xP-3-FA
ISCFKFM1802xP-3-FA
ISCFSF1802xP-3-FA
ISCFSFM1802xP-3-FA
GornG-121802xP-3-FA
GornG-12E1802xP-3-FA
GornG-12EM1802xP-3-FA
GornG-12M1802xP-3-FA
GornG-291802xP-3-360°
KrebizG-F1802xP-3-FA
RomulanG-FSF1802xP-3-FA
RomulanG-FSFE1802xP-3-FA
RomulanG-FSFEM1802xP-3-FA
RomulanG-FSFM1802xP-3-FA
SharkhunterHarpoon1802xP-3-FA
SharkhunterHarpoon-E1802xP-3-FA
SharkhunterHarpoon-EM1802xP-3-FA
SharkhunterHarpoon-F1802xP-3-FA
SharkhunterHarpoon-HIF1802xP-3-FA
SharkhunterHarpoon-M1802xP-3-FA
CarnivonHY-3EM1802xP-3-FA
CarnivonHY-3M1802xP-3-FA
CarnivonJK-4EM1802xP-3-FA
CarnivonKOM1802xP-3-RX
GornMBR-E1802xP-3-FX
GornMBR-E1802xP-3-RX
PeladineP-1B1802xP-3-FA
PeladineP-1BM1802xP-3-FA
VudarProton1802xP-3-FA
VudarProton-M1802xP-3-FA
ISCSFM1802xP-3-FA
HydranSt-2Gv1802xP-3-FA
TholianS-V1802xP-3-RX
TholianS-VM1802xP-3-RX
TholianS-VP1802xP-3-RX
TholianS-VPM1802xP-3-RX
TholianS-VS1802xP-3-RX
TholianS-VSM1802xP-3-RX
KzintiTADS1802xP-3-FA
WYNTADS1802xP-3-FA
KzintiTADSM1802xP-3-FA
ParavianTCEM1802xP-3-FA
ParavianTCM1802xP-3-FA
ParavianTSFIM1802xP-3-RX
KzintiVMR1802xP-3-FX
KzintiVMR1802xP-3-RX
KzintiVMRM1802xP-3-FX
KzintiVMRM1802xP-3-RX
KlingonZ-YB1802xP-3-FA
SeltorianZ-YB1802xP-3-FA
WYNZ-YB1802xP-3-FA
LyranZ-YB1802xP-3-FA
LDRZ-YB1802xP-3-FA
KlingonZ-YBM1802xP-3-FA
FederationB-1p1812xP-3-RA
FederationB-1pM1812xP-3-RA
ISCFDF1812xP-3-FA
ISCFDFM1812xP-3-FA
KzintiHMR1812xP-3-FX
KzintiHMR1812xP-3-RX
KzintiHMRM1812xP-3-FX
KzintiHMRM1812xP-3-RX
JindarianMeteor-2EM1812xP-3-FA
JindarianMeteor-2M1812xP-3-FA
JindarianMeteor-3EM1812xP-3-FA
JindarianMeteor-3M1812xP-3-FA
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FederationF-14DpM1952xP-3-FA
FRAD2E1972xP-3-FH

By Douglas Saldana (Dsal) on Saturday, August 13, 2022 - 03:00 pm: Edit

Forgot those pesky MRS.

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