Archive through October 25, 2022
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Star Fleet Battles: Battle Forces for Captain's Log:
Archive through October 25, 2022
Tim,
0.67 move cost SC4 are not allowed,
"1. The BPV that can be spent to construct the force is limited to 550 points, including the BPV of all ships, fighters, drone speed upgrades, refits, and Commander’s Option Points. The battle group must adhere to the strictures and command limits set by (S8.0). No ship of size class 2 or size class 3 or with a movement cost of 0.67 or greater may be selected as part of this battle group."
Quote:By David Jannke (Bigslowtarget) on Friday, October 21, 2022 - 01:40 am: Edit
Hmm, why is the MW drone in the Kzinti drone package not 0.5 (bus speed to M) + 2.5 (warhead) - 0.5 (credit explosive warhead) + 1.5 (upgrade 3xVI to M) = 4?
Do your heavy single space of armor drones not only cost 1 restricted space each (counted on warhead - but minimum 1 - when the modification does not effect the entire frame)?
Have I been doing that wrong somehow?
Also could save 0.5*2 by using a standard III-ECM as you have Limited slots left over.
Dave,
Thank you for taking the time to check my drone loadout. Drones can be tricky!
To answer your first question, see FD8.45, "Replacing a type-l drone with a type-l-MW drone (medium-speed frame with medium-speed submunitions) costs 3.25 points."
Personally, I think (likely like you) that that rule does not jive with FD10.5. Like you, I get that replacing a Type IS drone with a Type 1M-MW (3*VIM) drones costs 4 BPV. However, I went with the explicit rule of FD8.45 over the more general custom building framework of FD10.5.
Regarding your second question, the answer is "yes" - you are correct. So, I could have more restricted drones - and limited drones for that matter. However, without knowing either the mission or the enemy force I wanted to keep the drone loadout somewhat more generic. Unless I'm going up against a Lyran, I like to have more standard drones than armored drones. Armored drones do not provide as much of a deterrent (opponent may elect to take the damage on a side shield and not bother shooting down the drone).
As to your third and last statement (Not a question, but I'll answer anyway), you are correct. Also Type III frames have a much greater endurance for the same cost.
I will make the adjustment!
Kzinti "Game of Drones" Task Force
Ted "Sir CatWhoEatsPhotons" Fay, USS Texas
Revision 1 (corrects some minor typos that could have caused confusion in the drone packages - force disposition and drone load-outs have not changed).
Revision 2 (one improvement (type III ECM drones), error in counting restricted and limited drones fixed; costs remain the same)
DWL Fighting Galaxy (98) with Y175 Refit (7), "Drone Package" (13.75), T-Bomb (4), 1*Commando BP (1), 1*Extra BP (0.5) = 124.25 BPV.
DD Pegasus (90) with Y175 Refit (4), "Drone Package" (13.75), T-Bomb (4), 1*Commando BP (1), 1*Extra BP (0.5) = 113.25 BPV.
DD Gryphon (90) with Y175 Refit (4), "Drone Package" (13.75), T-Bomb (4), 1*Commando BP (1), 1*Extra BP (0.5) = 113.25 BPV.
FFK 777 (80) with Y175 refit (4), "Drone Package" (13.75), 1*Commando BP (1), 1*Extra BP (0.5) = 99.25 BPV.
DWS Brilliant Eclipse (80) with Y175 refit (6), "Drone Package" (13.75) = 99.75 BPV.
Each ship has the same "Drone Package," as each ship has 2*C racks and 2*B racks (20 drone spaces in all). For this battle force, the "Drone Package" is defined as the following, and costs a total of 13.75 BPV (per ship, already accounted for above):
The number is the number of drones of the identified type. The "spaces" is the number of spaces the drone takes up in the racks. "Restricted Spaces" includes limited spaces to ensure the force stays within the 50% limitation for Kzinti ships under FD10.6 (up to 10 spaces of drones per ship, as each ship has 20 spaces among 4 racks; 7 of 10 spaces are used). "Limited spaces" are the number of spaces of limited drones to ensure the force stays within the 20% limitation for Kzinti ships under FD10.6 (up to 4 spaces of drones per ship, as each ship has 20 spaces among 4 racks; 4 of 4 spaces are used). "Cost per" is the cost per drone. "Total Cost" is the total cost to the package for all drones of that type. Summary and full drone descriptions are self-explanatory.
Drone Package Definition:
| |
| Number | Spaces | Restricted Spaces | Limited Spaces | Cost Per | Total Cost | Summary | Full Drone Description |
| 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 1.5 | 3 | ECM | Type III Drone (0.5) with Medium speed (0.5), replacing warhead with ECM module (0), ATG guidance (0.5) |
| 2 | 4 | 2 | | 0.5 | 1 | Heavy Armored | Type IV Drone with Medium speed (0.5), replacing 1 space of warhead with internal armor (0) (10 hit points, 12 warhead) |
| 2 | 4 | 0 | | 0.5 | 1 | Heavy | Type IV Drone with Medium speed (0.5) (6 hit points, 24 warhead) |
| 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 3.25 | 3.25 | Multi Warhead | Type I Drone, upgrading to medium speed multiwarhead frame with 3*Type VI medium speed submunition drones (3.25). (Bus drone has 4 HP, 0 Warhead. 3*submunitions with 3 HP and dogfight warheads) |
| 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1.5 | 1.5 | Swordfish | Type 1 Drone with Medium speed (0.5), replacing warhead with Swordfish drone (1) (4 hit points, 1 shot type-III phaser for warhead) |
| 2 | 2 | 1 | | 0.5 | 1 | Light Armored | Type 1 Drone with Medium speed (0.5), replacing 0.5 warhead with 0.5 internal armor (0) (6 hit points, 6 warhead) |
| 6 | 6 | 0 | | 0.5 | 3 | Standard | Type I Drone with Medium speed (0.5) (4 hit points, 12 warhead) |
| | | | | | | |
| 16 | 20 | 7 | 4 | N/A | 13.75 | <----------------- | Totals |
|
Quote:Note specifically that if a specific unique ship or ships were in fact built, but were destroyed prior to Y175, it is considered to be a conjectural unit since it no longer exists.
Since there is no mention of the Tholian DDF being destroyed (at least, none that I have been able to find), does that mean a Tholian force can include their fast destroyer?
Federation
The 3rd rides again.
Ed Crutchfield USS Michigan
10/21/2022 1:20PM
DD+ 100 includes +6 refit)2TB(=+8)2BP(+1) 109
DD+ 100 includes +6 refit)2TB(=+8)2BP(+1) 109
DDG+ 100includes +6 refit) Rk 1 1XECMM(+1.0), 1xIM(.5), 1xIVM(.5) Rk 2 1 1XECMM(+1.0), 1xIM(.5), 1xIVM(.5) Drone total 4 2TB(+8)1BP(+.5) ship total 112.5.
DDL+ 100,includes +6 refit) 2TB(+8), 2BP(+1) ship total 109.
FBS 100 , Rk 1 2XECMM(+2.0),1xIVM(.5)Drone total 2.5 2TB(8)ship total 110.5
Fleet total 550
Wayne, it looks as though the constraints have changed.
"1. The BPV that can be spent to construct the force is limited to 550 points, including the BPV of all ships, fighters, drone speed upgrades, refits, and Commander’s Option Points. The battle group must adhere to the strictures and command limits set by (S8.0). No ship of Size Class 2 or with a movement cost greater than 1.00 may be selected as part of this battle group. No ship with a movement cost less than 0.33 may be selected as part of this battle group."
Tim, the "pinned" post is for the CL54 Battle Group, not the current one. That post is in the archiver through Oct 18.
Ok, my mistake :|
I will look for the correct parameters.
edit, noted already
Don't type III drones already include ATG?
Mike, you are correct, per (FD5.25).
For clarification, my request to formally withdraw my proposed Chlorophon group, posted at 1:29 PM on OCT 19 is valid.
I have withdrawn the Chlorophon group in favor of a Hiver group. Anyone wishing to do a Chlorophon Battle Group, the race is open for them.
On to my new proposed Battleforce 550. 
My initial proposal has a problem; the CV that I put at the center of the group may not be available. According to the MSC in Omega 2, it is, but according to the more recent MSC in the Omega Master Book, it is not.
Due to that discrepancy, I have opted to make the safe assumption that it is NOT an available ship and have reworded the Hiver Battleforce appropriately.
(I've done this of my own volition; there's no need to whack me with a cast iron skillett. )
Besides which, a mathematical analysis of the Hiver CA led me to discover something poetic.
CA: 75 BPV
2xB-2 Fighters: +28 BPV
1xT-bomb: +4 BPV
2xExtra BP: +1 BPV
2xCommando Squads: +2 BPV
Total: 110 BPV
Ships so outfitted will have SOME capability in most areas. Given that Hivers tend to be pretty hivebound (pun intended), I believe a Queen would be more interested in standardization than having specialized ships.
For this reason, I think it fits Hiver mentality to put forth a fleet of five so equipped ships for a Battleforce.
Hiver Cruiser Flotilla
By Jeff Anderson U.S.S. California
CA (75) + 2xBarb-2 (+28) + 1xT-bomb (+4) + 2x Extra BP (+1) + 2x Commando Squads (+2) = 110 BPV
CA (75) + 2xBarb-2 (+28) + 1xT-bomb (+4) + 2x Extra BP (+1) + 2x Commando Squads (+2) = 110 BPV
CA (75) + 2xBarb-2 (+28) + 1xT-bomb (+4) + 2x Extra BP (+1) + 2x Commando Squads (+2) = 110 BPV
CA (75) + 2xBarb-2 (+28) + 1xT-bomb (+4) + 2x Extra BP (+1) + 2x Commando Squads (+2) = 110 BPV
CA (75) + 2xBarb-2 (+28) + 1xT-bomb (+4) + 2x Extra BP (+1) + 2x Commando Squads (+2) = 110 BPV
Total: 550 BPV
LDR Response Force
By A. David Merritt, USS Missouri
DW+B Commune (110): UIM refit (+5); 10x boarding parties (5); 2x commando boarding parties (2); 4x transporter artillery rounds (+1); 2x T-bomb (+8) = 130.5.
MP+B Defender (86): UIM refit (+5); 10x boarding parties (5); 2x transporter artillery rounds (+.5); 2x T-bomb (+8) = 104.5.
MP+B Guardian (86): UIM refit (+5); 10x boarding parties (5); 2x transporter artillery rounds (+.5); 2x T-bomb (+8) = 104.5.
MP+B Security (86): UIM refit (+5); 10x boarding parties (5); 2x transporter artillery rounds (+.5); 2x T-bomb (+8) = 104.5.
MPS+B Sharp Eyes (80):10x boarding parties (5); 2x transporter artillery rounds (+.5); 1x extra probe (1); 2x T-bomb (+8) = 99.25.
Total=550
Alan Trevor: The DDF (Federation) was excluded and was made an example of how such an exclusion might occur. But the DDF (Archeo-Tholian) is not excluded.
Soeren Klein:
F5W YIS is 176 in Star Fleet Battles. Unless SVC chooses to change the date. I do not know if he has done so or the entry for Y175 in Fed and Emp is a typo.
Quote:By Mike Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Saturday, October 22, 2022 - 11:24 am: Edit
Don't type III drones already include ATG?
Yes. FD5.251.
Thank you, Mike. Much appreciated. I will revise my Kzinti force as the saved BPV can be translated into a few more boarding parties.
Kzinti "Game of Drones" Task Force
Ted "Sir CatWhoEatsPhotons" Fay, USS Texas
Revision 1 (corrects some minor typos that could have caused confusion in the drone packages - force disposition and drone load-outs have not changed).
Revision 2 (one improvement (type III ECM drones), error in counting restricted and limited drones fixed; costs remain the same)
Revision 3 (corrected overpayment for type III ECM drones; added extra boarding parties with BPV saved).
DWL Fighting Galaxy (98) with Y175 Refit (7), "Drone Package" (12.75), T-Bomb (4), 2*Commando BP (2), 1*Extra BP (0.5) = 124.25 BPV.
DD Pegasus (90) with Y175 Refit (4), "Drone Package" (12.75), T-Bomb (4), 2*Commando BP (2), 1*Extra BP (0.5) = 113.25 BPV.
DD Gryphon (90) with Y175 Refit (4), "Drone Package" (12.75), T-Bomb (4), 2*Commando BP (2), 1*Extra BP (0.5) = 113.25 BPV.
FFK 777 (80) with Y175 refit (4), "Drone Package" (12.75), 2*Commando BP (2), 1*Extra BP (0.5) = 99.25 BPV.
DWS Brilliant Eclipse (80) with Y175 refit (6), "Drone Package" (12.75), 2*Extra BP (1.0) = 99.75 BPV.
Each ship has the same "Drone Package," as each ship has 2*C racks and 2*B racks (20 drone spaces in all). For this battle force, the "Drone Package" is defined as the following, and costs a total of 13.75 BPV (per ship, already accounted for above):
The number is the number of drones of the identified type. The "spaces" is the number of spaces the drone takes up in the racks. "Restricted Spaces" includes limited spaces to ensure the force stays within the 50% limitation for Kzinti ships under FD10.6 (up to 10 spaces of drones per ship, as each ship has 20 spaces among 4 racks; 7 of 10 spaces are used). "Limited spaces" are the number of spaces of limited drones to ensure the force stays within the 20% limitation for Kzinti ships under FD10.6 (up to 4 spaces of drones per ship, as each ship has 20 spaces among 4 racks; 4 of 4 spaces are used). "Cost per" is the cost per drone. "Total Cost" is the total cost to the package for all drones of that type. Summary and full drone descriptions are self-explanatory.
Drone Package Definition:
| |
| Number | Spaces | Restricted Spaces | Limited Spaces | Cost Per | Total Cost | Summary | Full Drone Description |
| 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 1.0 | 2 | ECM | Type III Drone (0.5) with Medium speed (0.5), replacing warhead with ECM module (0) |
| 2 | 4 | 2 | | 0.5 | 1 | Heavy Armored | Type IV Drone with Medium speed (0.5), replacing 1 space of warhead with internal armor (0) (10 hit points, 12 warhead) |
| 2 | 4 | 0 | | 0.5 | 1 | Heavy | Type IV Drone with Medium speed (0.5) (6 hit points, 24 warhead) |
| 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 3.25 | 3.25 | Multi Warhead | Type I Drone, upgrading to medium speed multiwarhead frame with 3*Type VI medium speed submunition drones (3.25). (Bus drone has 4 HP, 0 Warhead. 3*submunitions with 3 HP and dogfight warheads) |
| 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1.5 | 1.5 | Swordfish | Type 1 Drone with Medium speed (0.5), replacing warhead with Swordfish drone (1) (4 hit points, 1 shot type-III phaser for warhead) |
| 2 | 2 | 1 | | 0.5 | 1 | Light Armored | Type 1 Drone with Medium speed (0.5), replacing 0.5 warhead with 0.5 internal armor (0) (6 hit points, 6 warhead) |
| 6 | 6 | 0 | | 0.5 | 3 | Standard | Type I Drone with Medium speed (0.5) (4 hit points, 12 warhead) |
| | | | | | | |
| 16 | 20 | 7 | 4 | N/A | 12.75 | <----------------- | Totals |
|
Steve, on the F5W YIS date, SVC answered this down in the F&E Q&A topic a few days ago. The SFB MSC YIS date is squadron service, with a couple of prototype or test builds possibly being in service before that date, while the F&E SIT YIS is the “and this is when the first one came out of the yard”.
Richard,
"70 Eel +1 2 Extra Boarding Parties +4 1T-Bomb +1 one commando."
I think you may mean a COU, not an EEL perhaps. (A COU cost is 70 and EEL starts at 92 BPV)
A recon CBR cost is 90.
I have decided to withdraw my Carnivon Submissions (V1-3) and go ahead with an Omega module #1 force,
The Alunda Host.... crack that whip,
DVw = (99), 1x T-bomb (+4), 4x extra BP (+2) = 105
DVw = (99), 1x T-bomb (+4), 4x extra BP (+2) = 105
3x TRw (76), each 4x extra BP (+2) = 234
SCw (102), 1x T-bomb (+4), 4x extra BP (+2) = 106
Total = 550
I do not have Omega Module #4; I will be upgrading the Plasma whips with whipcrack torpedo refit (OR9.RO). If possible, can someone let me know what they do please?
Yeah, it's a Courier. Remove 2 of the extra boarding parties from two Cobras and add a 2nd T-bomb to the CBR.
Wayne, you've got guts! Flying a race you don't even know all the rules for! I LIKE IT!!
Anyway, here's the short version...
Whipcracks are an alternate firing mode for Plasma Whips. They are a sort of plasma torpedo with a warhead strength of five.
Like a standard plasma torpedo, they move at speed 32 (sorry, not Sabot), lose warhead strength at a rate of one point of warhead strength for every two points of phaser damage, and have the standard built-in ECCM of plasma torpedoes.
Like plasma-D torpedoes, they can be distracted by Chaff.
If/when you wish to launch a Whipcrack torpedo, the specific plasma whip you are launching it from must not have been fired for at least 32 impulses (as per standard plasma whip rules). You also must charge it with 0.25 points of energy from an adrenal battery. The power MUST come from an adrenal battery; it can NOT be allocated.
The launching of a Whipcrack is treated as a firing of that specific plasma whip; the weapon may not be used to fire a plasma whip or launch another Whipcrack torpedo for 32 impulses.
A Whipcrack torpedo has a duration of sixteen impulses and does not lose strength as a result of range (i.e.: even in its last impulse of flight, it'll still have a warhead strength of five, unless it's lost some due to terrain collision or phaser damage).
Oh! One last thing. You know how plasma whip damage is doubled after it gets through a shield? Whipcracks do NOT get that bonus; a five point Whipcrack hits a two point shield, it'll do three points of penetrating damage, not the six points of damage that a five point standard plasma whip hit against the same two point shield will do.
I think that covers it. Anybody? Did I miss anything?
SPP,
thanks for the answer.
As Alex mention, I got an answer from SVC about this item over in the FnE thread.
He explained to me one of the finer points of difference between the games, that I was not aware of.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Soeren Klein
Thanks Jeff,
will launching it blind a powered sensor channel?
V2 (the SCw CO points was wrong)
Alunda defense Squadron
by Wayne Power HMAS Livingstone
DVw Validus = (99), 1x T-bomb (+4), 4x extra BP (+2) = 105
DVw Pallidus = (99), 4x extra BP (+2) = 101
TRw Tetricus (76), 4x extra BP (+2) = 78
TRw Dofleini (76), 4x extra BP (+2) = 78
TRw Selene (76), 4x extra BP (+2) = 78
SCw Laqueus (102), 1x T-bomb (+4), 8x extra BP (+4) = 110
Total = 550