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The campaign rules we're currently hammering out allow ships to move two spaces per strategic turns so they could do two battles against a base. We're also halved command ratings and removed SBes so there's less reason to do so. No free scout slot, either. The largest a fight would be is a BATS, a DN, and 4 other ships vs. a DN and 5 other ships.

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Thursday, December 08, 2022 - 01:55 pm: Edit

Possible reasons the defender might fight an approach battle:

Weapon Status: Ordinarily the base would roll for weapon status (with whatever modifiers apply) under the provisions of (S4.0) WEAPONS ARMED STATUS. If the defender fights an approach battle that lasts at least four rounds (some experimentation will probably be necessary to determine the appropriate duration for a givn campaign), the base's (along with any ships remaining at the base) starting weapon status is one level higher than that given by the dice roll under S4.25. If the approach battle lasts eight turns the defenders at the base are automatically WS-III.

Reinforcements: Many SFB base or planet defense scenarios include defender reinforcements arriving during the course of the battle. Suppose our hypothetical campaign rules included something like "reaction movement" for the non-phasing player and the defender attempts to react a nearby force to help defend a base under assault. The turn of arrival might be determined by a dice roll, modified by speed of the reacting force (X-ships, CAFs, DNLs get a favorable modifier; auxilliaries or "slow" ships (Romulan Eagle-series, some Hydran or Kzinti ships prior to "+". "C-14", etc. refits) get an unfavorable modifier. It could also be modified if the defender fights an approach battle against the base assault force.

Obviously, there could be other mechanisms as well. My primary point is simply that there should be reasons within the campaign rules why the defender might choose to fight an approach battle.

By Ginger McMurray (Gingermcmurray) on Thursday, December 08, 2022 - 01:58 pm: Edit

Another reason would be if the defender has more units at the base than can be marshalled into a single fleet. For instance (in our campaign) a BATS with 8 ships in the space. Only 4 of those could be used in the base battle so the other 4 might wish to intercept.

By Douglas Saldana (Dsal) on Thursday, December 08, 2022 - 04:05 pm: Edit

Shouldn't the empire on the strategic offensive have a much larger fleet than the defender? Reading back through the topic it looks like both sides started with navies of equal size.

By Ginger McMurray (Gingermcmurray) on Thursday, December 08, 2022 - 04:18 pm: Edit

They start at the same size but the defender only has access to half of theirs in the first round.

By Douglas Saldana (Dsal) on Thursday, December 08, 2022 - 04:39 pm: Edit

I don't think that's a big enough handicap given the goals of the Admiral's Game. I can't see any empire invading a neighbor and trying to take their capitol without a significant, sustained advantage in numbers. A campaign between equal fleets is more of a border war/"economy of force" type of conflict. Punching through multiple defensive lines without a numerical advantage on the enemy's home turf SHOULD be an impossible task.

By Joseph Jackson (Bonneville) on Thursday, December 08, 2022 - 10:05 pm: Edit

In (U3.2) Forces Available, it mentions choosing 1, 2, or 3 of the "Fleets" or more, plus options of a carrier fleet, PF fleet, and a support fleet. With that number of ships would it not nullify any advantage or disadvantage the Reserve component of the game might impose?
Downside would be the massive catalog of ships and play time. But no sense in going to the top without going over-the-top.
As the simplest of solutions, would giving the attacking player 50% more starting ships make any sense?

By Ginger McMurray (Gingermcmurray) on Thursday, December 08, 2022 - 11:12 pm: Edit

If the attacker more ships then you end up with a lot of unbalanced battles in their favor. That's no fun for the defender.

By Jamey Johnston (Totino) on Friday, December 09, 2022 - 12:09 am: Edit

You've still got command limits, so individual battles aren't going to be unbalanced necessarily. But as you (Ginger) has explained, it's no fun as the attacker due to all the advantages that the defender has. You either take away those advantages, or give the attacker more ships.

From a "realism" standpoint, giving the attacker more ships is the obvious solution, because the reality of strategic combat is that an attacker wouldn't push into defended territory without some significant advantage (in this case numbers), to offset the defender having their intrinsic benefits (no retreat penalty, bases, etc.) as already discussed.

If your goal was to create a "balanced" Admiral's game, that's how I'd do it.

I think that the Admiral's game has worked fairly well for my group because we spotted that pretty much right away and when we played it we put the better players on offense, and the weaker players on defense. With equal skill I think you're likely to see it go in favor of the defender, or a "tie" for the attacker if they do well.

By Mike Erickson (Mike_Erickson) on Friday, December 09, 2022 - 12:40 am: Edit

>> you end up with a lot of unbalanced battles

As I read through the campaign description, that occurred to me as well. It seems like the nature of the campaign would generate a lot of mostly playable SFB scenarios.

I guess not everyone wants to be the GW Hydrans and see their territory steamrolled by the Coalition...

--Mike

By Douglas Saldana (Dsal) on Friday, December 09, 2022 - 01:46 am: Edit

If the attacker starts with a larger force, that won't last forever. He should suffer disproportionate losses taking down the starbases and the defender (as they retreat to the inner defense lines) will have a narrower front to defend and should then find it easier to meet the attacker on equal terms.

By John L Stiff (Tarkin22180) on Friday, December 09, 2022 - 04:20 pm: Edit

Ginger,

Do your fleets move left, right, up, down, along a diagonal?

Can two (or more) fleets move into the same square? If an enemy is there, who fights?

John

By Ginger McMurray (Gingermcmurray) on Friday, December 09, 2022 - 04:48 pm: Edit

There's a better image for the map being worked on. It doesn't have diagonals.

If fleets move into the same space they'll fight. If more than two players converged it would be a three way battle.

By Ginger McMurray (Gingermcmurray) on Friday, December 09, 2022 - 04:49 pm: Edit

Updated rules pdf

By Ginger McMurray (Gingermcmurray) on Friday, December 09, 2022 - 04:52 pm: Edit

There's also a Facebook group starting up. We're still hoping for one more player before we get started.

By Ken Kazinski (Kjkazinski) on Saturday, December 10, 2022 - 10:36 am: Edit

Ginger,

The links in the PDF do not work.

By Eddie E Crutchfield (Librarian101) on Saturday, December 10, 2022 - 12:18 pm: Edit

The PDF link does not work if you click on it, but if you right click and copy it to a new browser address line it does work. Same for the facebook link.

By Mike Erickson (Mike_Erickson) on Saturday, December 10, 2022 - 12:34 pm: Edit

I'm not able to get any of them to work in the PDF. Recommend listing the URLs as plaintext in addition to the link.

--Mike

By Ginger McMurray (Gingermcmurray) on Saturday, December 10, 2022 - 10:25 pm: Edit

Rules: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Sx853ni4Wof8u6tf-I-LcsdvSRXeL45C8P1vRPqVYPU/edit?usp=drivesdk

Facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2951718365130284/?ref=share_group_link

We're in the pre campaign construction phase now so nobody knows anyone else's race yet. We have to build general enough to be able to face anything.

By Mike Erickson (Mike_Erickson) on Saturday, December 10, 2022 - 10:36 pm: Edit

Those links work for me, thx.

Let the mahem begin!

--Mike

By Ginger McMurray (Gingermcmurray) on Saturday, December 10, 2022 - 11:35 pm: Edit

Huzzah!

By John Christiansen (Roscoehatfield) on Monday, January 23, 2023 - 12:39 pm: Edit

I'm enjoying reading the Campaign Outline for the Admiral's Game.

Is the map still available somewhere?

By Ginger McMurray (Gingermcmurray) on Monday, January 23, 2023 - 07:10 pm: Edit

The files section of the Facebook group has the current one.