There are a couple of threads (here and here) which ask what the Federation would look like, were they to forego the use of drones.

For my part, I wonder if it might be an option to go a step further: to consider the sheer extent to which drones have proliferated across the Alpha Octant at large (and, indeed, the sheer number of drone types and modifications which currently exist) - and then consider what a "drone-lite" alternative might look like as a potential "Stellar Shadows" option.

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As it stands, "standard" drones (not counting Early Years Andorian drones or Q'naabian plasma drones, or Carnivon death bolts) are used by a wide variety of Alpha Octant factions: the Federation, Klingons, Kzintis, Orions, WYNs, and Peladine (on both ships and on attrition units), plus the Lyrans, LDR, and Seltorians (on Klingon-sourced fighter designs). Not counting any "simulator" empires making use of them in the various Alpha empires' fleet academies.

Plus, there is a wide variety of drone sizes, speeds, warhead types, sub-munitions, guidance options, and so on and so forth - and, of course, an array of drone racks or launch rails from which these can be launched.

This proliferation of drones has already led other game systems, such as Federation Commander, to cut down significantly on the types of drones (and drone racks) they provide for the above empires.

It also encouraged the likes of Bruce Graw to ensure that the Omega Octant setting would keep the number of drone-like seeking weapons on the board at any one time to a more manageable level.

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So, I was wondering: to what extent could one pull this back, in order to make a "drone-lite" Alpha Octant functional?

For one thing, I might start by removing access to drones for Lyran, LDR, and Seltorian fighters. Perhaps by swapping out the drones on their Klingon-type fighters with RALADs, making them more akin to "lost empire" Carnivon fighters. Or perhaps by replacing them with "export" phaser fighter models, for those expected to tangle with Tholian Spider fighters.

Further, one could cut back on the number and variety of drone types allowed for those empires retaining drone use - which might, or might not, include the Federation.

For comparison's sake, FC treats all drones as type-Is - even on first-generation X-ships. It also has no alternate warhead options, no drone racks other than type-A or type-G, and no scatter-packs.

I'm not suggesting going quite so far as this. But what if one were to remove type-II and type-V drones; restrict type-IV drones to drone variant ships (with or without special sensors) or to bases; restrict type-III and Type-III-XX drones to drone bombardment variants (with special sensors); and restrict type-VI drones to fighters?

For X-ships, one could similarly limit type-VIII drones to X-drone variants, and delete type-IX drones (as here are no non-Hydran X-fighters from which to launch them).

One could also consider removing scatter-packs, multi-warhead drones, special drone types, and/or modular drone construction.

I don't claim to have the ideal level dialed-in by any means. But my idea here was to at least get some sort of conversation going, in terms of how much could be cut back, if one wanted to do so.

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As noted in the thread title, this might be something to consider for plasma torpedoes also.

As a further point of comparison, FC limits plasma torpedoes to seeking, bolting, and carronade options only. No pseudo, shotgun, or other varieties are present. Although I do think that that game system ought to have added a sabot option, to keep up with the Speed 32 drones available from 2580 (Y180) onwards.

If many of the plasma varieties in SFB had perhaps been added with a proliferation of drones in mind, what might a more slimmed-down approach to plasma look like, in the context of a "drone-lite" Alpha Octant?

For one thing, I wonder what the "lost empire" Paravians might think of a somewhat more streamlined set of plasma varieties to plan for, when fighting against the Gorn or ISC "demons" (or when fighting alongside their "Mapsheet P" Romulan allies)...

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In summary: if one were to consider how to offer a Stellar Shadows version of the Alpha Octant in which the historical proliferation of drone (and, to a lesser extent, plasma) technology was dialed back somewhat, would the resulting setting be something worth considering?

By Mike West (Mjwest) on Monday, November 28, 2022 - 06:12 pm: Edit

Before jumping into the idea here, I want to clear up something on the referred-to threads.

When talking about a "drone-less" Federation, I was focused purely on the Federation because, in the source material, the Federation does not use drones or missiles or other seeking style weapons. The point was to evoke the source material more directly.

It was also done trying to make no one else change. (Well, except for the one potential wazoo idea of eliminating attrition units for everyone.) The idea was to leave everything else the same, except for the Federation's technology. The idea is to remove the Federation's ability to use drones, not remove everyone's ability to use drones.

That said, on to the idea presented here ...

By Mike West (Mjwest) on Monday, November 28, 2022 - 06:23 pm: Edit

OK, doing what you outline just isn't that hard. Fundamentally, what you would be doing is just wiping out vast sections of rules. So, everything that isn't a Type-I drone of some speed just goes away. No "construct-a-drone", no Type-III weirdness, no ECM drones, no non-explosive munitions. That is very easy to do because the rules you are talking about wanting all already exist. This would be an exercise of removal.

Heck, even with Lyran (and, ugh, Seltorian) fighters, you don't need anything new. Just take their Z-V/Z-Y fighters and load them up with RALADs. These fighters already exist in the game.

With that stated, this could be a simple CL article. No ships are changed (though some would likely be removed). No rules are actually changed. It would just be a long list of rules that are now banned. (At least for the purposes of this exercise.)

The question I have is, who wants this? To be honest, in Federation Commander, which you point out already basically does this, I have seen many people asking for double-space drones. And enveloping plasma. I have never, in my time on this board, seen anyone asking for fewer drone types in SFB.

To be clear, I am not saying this is a bad idea. I am not saying this shouldn't be thought through. I am saying that the base proposition of "get rid of large chunks of the game" is going to be a very hard sell.

By Mike West (Mjwest) on Monday, November 28, 2022 - 06:37 pm: Edit

On the other hand, I'd love to see drone-less Lyran fighters. Heck, even the Gorns modified their Federation fighters to fit their weapons. I'd love to see the Lyrans do the same.

By Jeff Guthridge (Jeff_Guthridge) on Monday, November 28, 2022 - 07:36 pm: Edit

Just my two quatloos here, but aside from the Kzinti (whom this would really hurt) and the Federation (whom previous threads have dealt with) which galactic powers are really impacted all that much?

The Kzinti would see significantly more harm than the Federation, not in direct damage potential, but in the number of weapons previously used to mitigate drones now available to hurt their ships.
It would be like trying to convince a Hydran player to forgo Stingers.

I seem to remember discussions that pointed out that Ship for Ship, the Klingons built 2 for 1 over the Kzinti, but drone for drone, the Kzinti built 2 drones for every drone built by the rest of the Alpha Octant put together.

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Monday, November 28, 2022 - 07:53 pm: Edit

I can't see this being made to work without major changes beyond what is reasonable for a Captain's Log.

By Mike Erickson (Mike_Erickson) on Tuesday, November 29, 2022 - 06:49 am: Edit

>> I'd love to see the Lyrans do the same

Years ago, I was all for Lyrans having some types of custom fighters rather than just using Klingon ones. Maybe Lyran fighters could have little baby ESGs? However, in F&E, having the Lyrans and Klingons be able to transfer fighters between each other's carriers is quite handy and now I like Lyrans using Klingon fighters. :-)

--Mike

By Mike Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Tuesday, November 29, 2022 - 07:41 am: Edit

IIRC small ESG are on the auto reject list. And if you get rid of drones, RALADs are pretty useless...

By Mike West (Mjwest) on Tuesday, November 29, 2022 - 09:52 am: Edit

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However, in F&E, having the Lyrans and Klingons be able to transfer fighters between each other's carriers is quite handy and now I like Lyrans using Klingon fighters. :-)

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And if you get rid of drones, RALADs are pretty useless...

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By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Tuesday, November 29, 2022 - 11:02 am: Edit

Makes your fighters pretty useless for anything else though.

By Mike West (Mjwest) on Tuesday, November 29, 2022 - 11:19 am: Edit

Yeah, RALAD based fighters ain't great. As a fighter screen for photon or disruptor fighters, maybe it can work. But on their own, fighters that only rely on RALADs just aren't very good. They need to be used as a means to an end, whether that is to escort a scarier fighter or to replace the RALADs with something similar. As an isolated fighter on their own, yes, they kinda suck. They aren't absolutely worthless, but they rank pretty low.