Since this is going to end up as a formal scenario, best to make sure all this is properly nailed down

By Ginger McMurray (Gingermcmurray) on Thursday, December 01, 2022 - 12:55 pm: Edit

He clarified that fighters with EW pods can gather information.

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Quote:

EWFs are treated as per (G4.13), so are fighters with EW pods. Shuttles normally would count as labs, but I have excluded that function but I did not exclude EWFs or fighters with pods.

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By Alex Chobot (Alendrel) on Thursday, December 01, 2022 - 04:05 pm: Edit

That leaves vagueness as there is discrepancy between the first and second sentences there. If it's simply does "not exclude EWFs or fighters with pods", then per (G4.13) that's fighters with sensor pods that count, not EW pods, i.e. the variance is simply "Admin shuttles don't count".

So is the first sentence meant to be a second variance: fighters with EW pods instead of with sensor pods as already allowed by the rule, or was it SPP confusing which pods allow such info gathering (which is no slight to him, just acknowledging we all human and that's the kind of very small detail it's easy to mix up)?

Yes, I am being pedantic, but, well, this is Star Fleet Battles, which is built on this level of precision in rules. Personally, I'd be quite happy if it is intended to be the double variance and we can use EW pods in this role, as our carriers will have more and it will make the fighters more survivable but for the sake of the final, formal scenario being clear I'd rather be 100% sure.

By Stewart Frazier (Frazikar3) on Thursday, December 01, 2022 - 04:30 pm: Edit

Fighters aren't normally allowed for (J2.212)'s scientific research by (J4.41) but it also states that exceptions may be provided.

(G4.13) provides for the EWF (R1.F7) which is generally a two-seat fighter, this would exclude one-seat fighters equipped with EWPs (as one needs a second person to handle that data stream).

Sensor pods (J11.42) does allow a fighter to have the (J2.212) science ability but is limited to one per squadron.

By Eddie E Crutchfield (Librarian101) on Thursday, December 01, 2022 - 04:52 pm: Edit

JUst a little confused on Regular fighters converted to EWF role. Rule R1.F7. "OTHER fighters without type 1 drones, plasma ds, or none phaser weapons, do not delete any systems or add any EW pods. They can carry only EWP under the ALL category below. All an EWF can carry 2 EW pods in addition to those listed above, these reduce the speed and Dog fighting rating." So in effect you could if you had the pods available for the purpose of this engagement turn all of your fighters into EWF fighters, yes no, do we need clarification

By wayne douglas power (Wayne) on Thursday, December 01, 2022 - 08:42 pm: Edit

The Jindarians are hoping that this is one of those exceptions when a normal fighter with EW Pods can do the scientific research in this scenario (makes for a more interesting battle vs the Federation force).

Writing up the tactics for the carrier groups presently.

By Jeff Anderson (Jga) on Friday, December 02, 2022 - 02:28 am: Edit

(Hopefully) Submitted tentative Hiver Battle Plan.

It's a weird one...

SPP: if I failed in getting it attached, please let me know. Thanks.

By wayne douglas power (Wayne) on Friday, December 02, 2022 - 03:06 am: Edit

(perhaps) In this scenario, I would imagine if the normal Fighter EW pods were doing lab work on a turn, they cannot be using the EW pods for ECCM or ECM the same turn.

By Ginger McMurray (Gingermcmurray) on Friday, December 02, 2022 - 08:12 am: Edit

Loriyill sent. And even spelled correctly this time. Love the race. Hate the name.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Friday, December 02, 2022 - 01:46 pm: Edit

Sigh. Pardon me, please, for being sloppy. On Fighters gathering lab information. EWFs are allowed. Note that EWFs are two seat fighters converted to the task. One fighter in a squadron of eight to twelve fighters can be an EWF. So there are limits on them. A fighter, a single seat one, can be equipped with sensor pods. Note that there are limits on sensor pods, and a fighter equipped with them can gather lab information as an EWF. Clear enough?

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Friday, December 02, 2022 - 04:13 pm: Edit

Clarification:

The Object cannot be displaced (sorry Andros). The object cannot be tractored (sorry everyone else) which precludes trying to haul it aboard a ship. sorry everyone.). The object cannot be boarded. The object cannot be damaged/destroyed by any means available to the known empires. All that is known of the object is that it appears, and then disappears.

By Eddie E Crutchfield (Librarian101) on Friday, December 02, 2022 - 04:57 pm: Edit

Thanks Steve for the clarifications.

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandar) on Friday, December 02, 2022 - 06:17 pm: Edit

Me with 6 little fighters means 1 count them 1 sensor pod and no 2-seat fighter. Ah well

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandar) on Friday, December 02, 2022 - 07:57 pm: Edit

Paravians Orders sent... even with the unsure status of the ISC forces.

By Alex Chobot (Alendrel) on Saturday, December 03, 2022 - 12:14 pm: Edit

Thank you very much, Steve! And no pardons needed, this is all just part of the process

By A David Merritt (Adm) on Sunday, December 04, 2022 - 12:13 am: Edit

Question 1) May ESGs be raised around the object of study?

Question 2) If an opponents ship is captured, does the capturing player gain the Information Points accumulated by that ship?

By Jeff Anderson (Jga) on Sunday, December 04, 2022 - 02:57 pm: Edit

A guess for question 1

Given that, whatever it is, it has no interaction with so many systems already, I would suspect it neither can be damaged by ESGs nor reduces the strength of them.

As far as question 2 goes, I'd assume that before a ship is formally captured, there'll be enough time for the crew to do a tight beam download of the data they've gathered to other ships in their group and dump their computer cores.

Hypothetically, if the captured ship can be dragged off the board by the capturing empire, they could pillage the systems to try and reconstruct the data, but I also suspect that THAT sort of operation is outside the parameters of this scenario.

Besides, if one side is able to SO dominate the other as to CAPTURE one of their ships, I'd imagine they've dominated the point of interest to the degree that they'll already have accumulated more points of information on the anomaly.

Thinking about it, if I had a ship that was in potential risk of capture, why would I risk it by letting it get so close to the folks who might? The only reason to do so would be if I were that far behind in accumulating science points on it that I was irrationally desperate to get more.

BUT I'm not qualified to make a formal judgement on these things. This is just my 0.02 Quatloos worth on the subject.

By A David Merritt (Adm) on Sunday, December 04, 2022 - 03:10 pm: Edit

Jeff, on Question 1, I did not ask if an ESG interacts with the object of interest, I asked if it could be inside the radius of an active ESG.

By Ginger McMurray (Gingermcmurray) on Sunday, December 04, 2022 - 03:26 pm: Edit

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Quote:

Jeff Anderson wrote:
Thinking about it, if I had a ship that was in potential risk of capture, why would I risk it by letting it get so close to the folks who might? The only reason to do so would be if I were that far behind in accumulating science points on it that I was irrationally desperate to get more.

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By Alex Chobot (Alendrel) on Sunday, December 04, 2022 - 08:02 pm: Edit

I think the best assumption to make for the object is that it does not exist for purpose of any game rules other than the gathering of information.

I don’t see a ship being captured giving up the info points - presumably that’s going to be encrypted or scrubbed same as any other sensitive data.

By A David Merritt (Adm) on Sunday, December 04, 2022 - 08:34 pm: Edit

The issue is that ESGs properly placed, can block probes from gathering information, for the Tholians to counter that in a timely matter gives me the possibility of close combat, where my ESGs and ph-Gs are highly effective. I have nearly twice as many boarding parties, and transporters as the Tholian DD.

I honestly do not expect to get any knowledge points the Tholians do, but it would be a nice bonus.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Monday, December 05, 2022 - 02:13 pm: Edit

ESGs versus the object. They cannot, I say again CANNOT, be formed around the object. ESGs cannot damage the object and contact with the object will automatically reduce any ESG field to Zero. If the ESG enters the hex of the object at the same time as other units enter hex(es) of that specific ESG, see (G23.52).

Capturing a ship does not gain knowledge of the object, but will prevent that ship providing the Turn's information to other ships.

By Jeff Guthridge (Jeff_Guthridge) on Monday, December 05, 2022 - 02:50 pm: Edit

Nick Blank, mind if I shoot you an email to Parley? (kidding on the Parley, not on wanting to email you.)

By Nick Blank (Nickgb) on Monday, December 05, 2022 - 04:59 pm: Edit

You can. E-mail is in my profile I believe.

By Stewart Frazier (Frazikar3) on Monday, December 05, 2022 - 06:11 pm: Edit

Lyran tactics sent ...