While attempting to look at some Middle Years ship lists, I see that the Kzinti have a small hole in their fleet line-up: they are missing a survey ship (of any size). Their CA/CS based SR doesn't get introduced until Y166. That leaves a LOT of time between Y120 and Y166 where there is no ship to fill that role.

Figuring they wouldn't want to "waste" a CS on the role, I figure the job would have been relegated to a CL variant.

My request here is for a Kzinti survey cruiser based on the CL hull that gets introduced no later than Y127. This would then fill that role for a few decades until finally relieved by the SR in Y166.

I am not going to offer up an SSD unless asked. I figure it is an obvious variant and, whether I build it or not, I figure Petrick will have to do it over from scratch anyway. But it would still be good to have a Middle Years Kzinti survey cruiser, and I think it makes most sense to use the CL hull for the ship.

By Nick Samaras (Koogie) on Wednesday, March 29, 2023 - 02:08 pm: Edit

They got a CL-based survey cruiser in Module R12.

By Mike West (Mjwest) on Wednesday, March 29, 2023 - 03:58 pm: Edit

Well, crap. Missed that then.

Thanks!

(OK. New request: How about a G4 Annex ... ?)

By Mike Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Thursday, March 30, 2023 - 08:40 am: Edit

I proposed a Kzinti SRH to be the competitor to the GSC.

Basic idea: Start with Kzinti CV and strip out all the fighter bays (to lab, hull, admins), disruptors to special sensors and voila.

My proposal also said that this was proposed and hit kzinti infighting problems, so only one was completed, while the 75% complete hulls just sat waiting on stuff. THEN they discovered the need for a CV and converter all of those mostly complete hulls to. Explains why / how the kzinti could add so many CVs to it's fleet in just a year.

The remaining hull spent years all alone in the Off Map area (to the north). Then it was recalled for the GW and briefly served as a SRV. Converted to an early pft with interceptors.

Along the way it gets to receive the CVS and other refits that the CVs got...

By Jeff Anderson (Jga) on Thursday, March 30, 2023 - 05:54 pm: Edit

While I like that idea, Mike, I gotta ask if the Patriarch would back/allow such a ship. How much "Better" is it than a standard SR? Enough to warrant both the financial cost and the loss of the CV/CVS hull for conventional military purposes? Also, if I remember right, there was tension between the Gorn and the Feds over the former building their double bubbled heavy survey cruiser. Would the Patriarch risk tension with the Feds for that, especially when he has enough potential war fronts already?

By Mike Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Friday, March 31, 2023 - 08:53 am: Edit

It would be a LOT better than a SR. More labs, more cargo...

I was thinking that the Kzinti SR was kind of lame compared to the GSC and Lyran SR.

But if you start with a CV/ CVS hull as a base (rather than a CA) you get a pretty banging scout/ SR/ PFT...

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Friday, March 31, 2023 - 10:44 am: Edit

The CVS is essentially a BCH class ship (nearly identical to the much later BCH-V). I don't see the Kzinti (or anyone else) using such a large hull as a SR type vessel.

By Jamey Johnston (Totino) on Friday, March 31, 2023 - 12:06 pm: Edit

Does anyone have a Scout/Survey variant of a BCH?

I know the Feds wouldn't build one because their BCHs are nearly perfect ships and all the admirals would just want more of those, but maybe one has popped up in a CL somewhere that someone considered/built?

By Thomas Mathews (Turtle) on Friday, March 31, 2023 - 01:29 pm: Edit

Make your own suggestion for a Scout or Survey variant of the Kzinti BCH. The Feds have a BCH Scout variant in one of the Captain's Logs already. I was surprised to find that a couple of my Gorn variants and one Romulan variant of different classes and types were accepted by the powers that be.

By Mike West (Mjwest) on Friday, March 31, 2023 - 02:20 pm: Edit

As the OP of this topic, if you wanna use this topic to talk about a BCH based SR, it's fine by me.

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Friday, March 31, 2023 - 02:59 pm: Edit

Point of order about the Fed "BCH Scout" (2 points, in fact).

1. It was intended as an RTN hunter during the Andro invasion. It was not a survey ship.

2. It was an "unbuilt variant". If I recall, the ship was eventually completed as a standard BCG. Personally, I think this was a mistake. A BCS would have been extremely useful during the invasion of the LMC. But then, these were the same brain donors who decided they didn't need PFs... so, par for the course for the stupid humans...

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Friday, March 31, 2023 - 05:21 pm: Edit

Do not overlook politics…

Just because Chairman Buckner died in suspicious circumstances (see the history, iirc it was in Captains log 14, but Its been years since I read that piece so might have the number wrong…) the faction that supported him were fully supportive in developing/deploying/duplicating fighters and bombers in both the National Guard and Star Fleet.

Even after the demise of Buckner, his faction might well have had enough political pull to kill any move to adopt PF technology.

Buckner was an officer in The National Guard, before he was Chairman.

It isn’t much of a reach to suggest that other members of Buckner faction were also NG oriented or former officers of the N.G.

Just suggesting that “Stupid” is not the only option. There is also

“Greed”
“Ignorance “
And (of course) “Mistaken Assumptions”.

Grin.

By Jason E. Schaff (Jschaff297061) on Friday, March 31, 2023 - 07:07 pm: Edit

On the idea of a Kzinti CV-hull based SR, how about the following backstory?

A couple years before the Four Powers War, certain elements within the Kzinti government started expressing displeasure with the fact that their survey ship was decidedly inferior to those of the Federation and (worse) the Lyrans. The government commissioned a design study for a "super survey cruiser" that would put every other SR in the galaxy to shame. The design resulted in the hull that would become the basis for the CV/CVS. By virtue of (insert obscure detail of Kzinti feudal politics), the faction supporting the improved survey design was able to get one hull funded and construction began a few months prior to the start of the Four Powers War.

Once the war began, the incomplete hull was laid up to free dockyard space for more important wartime construction. By the end of the war, the Kzinti had become convinced that fighters would be a key component of their future military structure. However, they found the DDV to be a thoroughly unsatisfactory design, and proposed designs based upon other existing hulls (CVE, CVL) did not carry the 12-fighter squadrons that many Kzinti admirals thought were critical to the new carrier tactics.

Some clever naval architect cast his gaze on the incomplete hull of the "super SR" and realized that it could very easily be reconfigured into a 12-fighter carrier with firepower superior to that of a CS/CA. Because the pro-survey faction had lost influence due to (insert obscure detail of Kzinti feudal politics), the conversion plan was approved, and the ship entered service as the first CV. The Kzinti admirals and the study groups developing future carrier tactics were thoroughly impressed by the design, and series production was authorized.

Probably so ahistorical that the Steves will shortly be sending guided missiles my way, but I think it sounds like a kind of cool way to make a "real" BCH-hulled survey ship. Pompous admirals and politicians push a hare-brained glory project that, due to pure dumb luck, ends up producing the ship that would save the Hegemony.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Friday, March 31, 2023 - 09:50 pm: Edit

Jason,
I proposed an Early Kzinti BCH variant for the years 160-169 ish. (Proposal posted to BBS back in 2009.)

Still on the BBS in the archives.

Needed a “HECK” of a back story to get past Petrick….

Assumed that the Kzinti admiralty ordered a gunned version of the original CV class carrier back during the Four Powers War, which ended before the prototype finished construction.

Then, in the rush to provide more carriers quickly, the second (possibly third as well) hulls were converted to CV’s) (Note:it also provided a story line to explain how the Kzinti shipyards built 5 new construction CV/CVS class hulls by the beginning of the General war. (Answer is, they didn’t, at least one was an unpublished variant design conversion.)

Petrick suggested (strong armed, insisted, blew a gasket, etc…, pick the terminology you are most comfortable with! Grin.) that any such proposed gunned version BCH variant must have a F&E Command rating of ‘8’.

That was where we left the proposal.

Now, if, your proposed CV hull SR was in fact, YIS 160 to 168, and were built originally to have a f&e Command Rating of ‘8’, you could argue that the need to get 12 single space AAS fighters shuttles on a CV class hull was more important for the defense of the Hegemony than getting a SR.

Wouldn’t be as good as a CV, but a SR doesn’t need a 9 or 10 f&e command rating.

It would provide a reason your SR was not produced.

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Saturday, April 01, 2023 - 12:56 am: Edit

I imagine a lot of people over the years have proposed the Kzinti version of the Lyran BC (ie a non carruer conbat version of the CV( over the years. I proposed such a thing back in the 90s when discussion was on Genie. Obviously it was never accepted.