DISCLAIMER: Yes, I know Module C3 categorically stated that Seltorians have mental inabilities for flying fighters. This is not meant to undermine Canon.

Disclaimer out of the way? Okay.

Now to undermine the Canon...

In addition to having Gunboat crews led by their own people, Seltorians also had their "Avengers," whom due to their being presented as a contrast to "Sage Teams" leads me to believe that there have been enough initiative GenMods put in some new Seltorian grubs as to make fighter pilots a theoretical possibility.

There's also the possibility that the KGB would put out some deliberately misleading Intel.

(Would the GIA or Taskforce fall for such misleading Intel? Could either afford to NOT forward it? )

At any rate, inspired by designs for both the LDR (in Captain's Log #41) and the Vudar (in F2), I can imagine, and thus am proposing, the Seltorians having a fighter type of their own that, like the two aforementioned races (both of whom have drone armed fighters as their sole drone armed platform), makes use of heavy weapons, in this case Particle Cannon.

Like the both of them (LDR and Vudar), the fighter I'm picturing for the Seltorians, as a late war/mature fighter, would have two Ph-3 (FA) and two Particle Cannon, each with two charges.

Questions remain, of course, as to how fast they are (are they Speed 14, like the Tholian Spider-II or Speed 15, like most superiority fighters), how much damage can they take (the Vudar fighters were almost as tough as the Tholian Spiders, but the proposed LDR fighters were less so), and their DFR.

There is, of course, the question of a Web Breaker armed fighter, but given the lack of a Web Breaker armed Gunboat, I'm tentatively happy to suggest there's no Web Breaker armed fighter.

(How's that for a lame excuse? )

One thing I do want to bring up is the Canon Particle Cannon rate of fire. The fact that shipboard Particle Cannon are unique in the SFU for being able to fire multiple times per turn, I can see the fighters being able to fire both charges in a single turn (provided they follow at least an eight impulse delay between firings?) as a mandatory ability.

Anyhootch, that's this proposal. What do you all think of it?

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Saturday, June 17, 2023 - 11:08 am: Edit

If you happen to have a copy on file, I might suggest taking a look at the rules for the Vari particle beam (OE7.0) in the 2011 Omega Master Rulebook: not least in terms of its firing rate when mounted on ships (OE7.25); in how it is armed as a fighter-mounted weapon (OJ2.2); and how the current crop of Vari particle beam fighters operate this weapon under (OR5.F0).

For what (little) it's worth, I am opposed to allowing Seltorian pilots to operate fighters, in the Alpha Octant or elsewhere.

However, I would not be ill-disposed towards alternate "drone-less" fighter types for use by "mercenary" pilots contracted to the Seltorians, to include ones armed with particle cannons. Be this in the Alpha Octant, or perhaps in a would-be Seltorian incursion into the Omega Octant, the Triangulum Galaxy, or some other non-Alpha setting.

Actually, it could also be interesting to consider what a "volatile warp" Seltorian gunboat might look like, in a would-be "Seltorians in Omega" scenario.

By Jeff Anderson (Jga) on Saturday, June 17, 2023 - 04:25 pm: Edit

The Vari fighters had crossed my mind, Gary. However, the notice that Vari and Tholian Home Galaxy Particle weapons technology followed different paths deliberately kept me from looking at them; I wanted to make something different (and probably failed, but that's another subject ).

My guess is your opposition to allowing Seltorian pilots to operate fighters probably represents the majority opinion in the community, perhaps even a supermajority. Recognized and accepted, but this whole idea is really meant more as a bit of jaw flappin' over some cold ones than anything serious.

As far as "Mercenary Pilots" goes, it has been established that the Seltorians use them (as do the Gorn with Skolean mercenaries). HOWEVER, I would respectfully suggest that such "Mercenaries" might be ill-advised for the Omegan Octant; the `Phon are begging for some sort of attrition unit and I feel that, if there WERE any sort of Mercs out there, the `Phon would HAVE to hire them. So far, no reference at all to them, but if someone wants to open a thread about Merc piloted `Phon attrition units, I'll happily throw down some Cold Ones in support of that idea.

Volatile Warp Seltorian Gunboats are another idea that sounds interesting to me. Methinks the idea is going to be bouncing around the vacuum chamber between my ears for a while.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Saturday, June 17, 2023 - 10:09 pm: Edit

The Tholian Home Galaxy has no fighters so there is no fighter culture from which to develop an indigenous fighter.

We look for creativity and there is no creativity in taking something that absolutely could not happen and saying maybe it did.

By Jeff Anderson (Jga) on Sunday, June 18, 2023 - 04:48 pm: Edit

No worries!

"`Tis better to have proposed and been rejected than to never have proposed at all."

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Sunday, June 18, 2023 - 05:10 pm: Edit

Mercenary fighters in the Omega Octant appear in two guises.

The first is the "BYOC", or "bring your own carrier" guise: a given empire signs a contract with a Bolosco, Iridani, or Zosman mercenary force, which includes a carrier and its own complement of fighters. (It is known that Zosman carriers and fighters exist, but they have yet to be presented in SSD form.)

The second is when a given empire, such as the Qixa, hires mercenary fighters to operate off of their own carriers. Historically, the Qixa would only do this for carriers deployed to support long-range trading missions outside of the Qixavalor Cloud, though they would eventually develop their own F-4 fighter which they could use for this role.

In the case of the Qixa, they would most commonly hire Bolosco Conjurer fighters for this role; other Bolosco fighter types cannot be used on non-Bolosco carriers, due to the inability of the latter to reload fighter-mounted focused tractor beams. But they would also hire Mæsron, Probr, Iridani, or other fighters on certain occasions.

In the case of the Zosmans: it's noted in Captain's Log #52 that Zosman carriers never operate non-Zosman fighters, so it's possible that the reverse is also true - unless the Zosmans were to develop an "export" fighter design which did not have a Stealth field installed.

So in the case of a would-be Seltorian force in Omega: they'd either have to hire mercenary carriers in the same manner as other Omega empires are liable to do; or perhaps they would follow the Qixa example in order to field mercenary fighters from Seltorian-built carriers.