Fast Scouts

This is an SFB ship mainly to be a scout fast enough to keep up with x-ships without requiring any x-technology to be consumed in its construction or repair; an SFB ship with an F&E function in mind. This ship doesn't need to be powerful in a fight, it just needs to be fast enough to keep pace with an x-ship squadron and be a sufficiently powerful EW platform to aid the x-ships in combat.

I'm thinking it would be based on the NCL of any particular empire, have 30 warp and 6-8 total impulse and APR power generation, 4 scout channels, and no weapons capable of blinding the scout channels. It would rely on speed and ECM for defense should something get past the x-ships in combat.

By Steve Stewart (Stevestewart) on Friday, July 21, 2023 - 03:57 am: Edit

Based on the Fast War Cruisers from R6?

By John Christiansen (Roscoehatfield) on Friday, July 21, 2023 - 09:52 am: Edit

Probably. My hard copy of R6 is packed and buried and I can't find a digital one.

By Jeff Anderson (Jga) on Friday, July 21, 2023 - 10:53 am: Edit

IIRC, the fast ships in R6 were based on pre-war CAs and the fast versions of CW were in R11 or R12.

As far as the idea itself goes, I like it, but there's more to X-ships than just being fast; there're all sorts of oddball things about them that're outside the normal, on SSD things. That's one of the reasons why there're specific X-tech FRDs. Being of a somewhat earlier tech, but also having their own oddball needs, having a "Fast Scout" supporting X-squadrons may well require a separate losgistics support for them. Besides, there already are X-scouts who can provide EW support for X-squadrons.

ON THE OTHER HAND, there are a few designs for other fast ships; CVF, DNL, and others come to mind. Aw heck, there's even a fast DD for the Federation! I think that SOMEone, SOMEwhere would have, in an attempt to become the Sir Jackie Fisher of their time, proposed the idea of "Fast Fleets."

Even if such things remain "Conjectural," I could see a "Fast Fleets" R-module; after all, one of the R-modules already out there is the "Ships that Never Were..."

By John Christiansen (Roscoehatfield) on Friday, July 21, 2023 - 12:06 pm: Edit

Jeff, I exhumed my copy of R6, and didn't see fast CWs in there.

I'm aware of x-scouts and am sure they are better, but they require XTPs to build and repair which puts a burden on the few XTPs available. The fast scouts being earlier tech, I would think the many empires would have figured out their supply needs and solved those issues before they knew they wanted fast scouts. Fast ships became available around the beginning of the GW, so everyone had about a decade's worth of logistical experience to benefit from.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Friday, July 21, 2023 - 02:09 pm: Edit

John Christiansen: You are essentially calling for a specialized ship to provide EW support for X squadrons, which will then provide EW support for the general fleet since the X squadrons are served by X scouts. This increases the over all number of scouts, and makes them desirable because they have more power for scout functions. In game terms these are "free scouts" because they will simply appear with no real degradation on the production of warships. For some reason you cited the Federation DDF, but the history of the "Two Moons" does not support your theory (It was "eaten" by a monster shortly before the Federation entry into the General War). There is also the situation that the "fast" Engines were considerably harder to produce than the normal engines, and this situation was not resoled before the X-tech engines arrived, which were at least easier to mass produce (in game terms) allowing the X-ships to proliferate.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Friday, July 21, 2023 - 02:50 pm: Edit

The only "fast" (non-X) scout in print this far, at least which I recall at present, is the Federation CFS NCC-1719 USS Eagle from SFB Module R12; this ship was a conversion of a "standard" Federation CF.

While it is noted as being a very powerful scout, it's also noted that no others were built (or converted), as there was too much demand for the other "fast" ships to be used on solo raiding missions.

Actually, I somewhat recall it being part of the Star Fleet task force opposing Juggernaut Beta, from the lead story fiction back in Captain's Log #33. Although I don't recall if it was in its CF or CFS configuration by that time.

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Beyond this, the conjectural Federation modular light dreadnought in Captain's Log #27 could have been deployed in a scout configuration - or perhaps as a scout/F-111 carrier configuration, for use against Andromedan Rapid Transit Network nodes.

Alas, the proposed Star Lynx was never built. Although I did once propose having the DNL Star Lion, which survived the General War, be converted to this configuration at some point during the Andromedan War.

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It is also worth noting that, as outlined in Federation and Empire Advanced Operations, there are certain differences between first-generation X-ships (523.0) and "fast" ships (525.1), in terms of their respective operational and strategic flexibility.

For example: while both X1-ships and "fast" ships can move seven hexes a turn via operational movement, an X1-ship moving via strategic movement only has to enter a hex featuring a strategic movement mode every seven hexes; a "fast" ship, by contrast, has the same six-hex limit as other non-X ships.

So if a "fast" scout, such as the Eagle, were assigned to an X1-ship "Flying Squadron", the X1-ships would either have to slow down their movement in order to keep the "fast" ship in formation, or simply end up leaving the "fast" ship behind.

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And so far as the anti-RTN mission - which requires scouts to operate solo, in order to be able to detect a hidden Andromedan base in its assigned search area - is concerned: the question would be how survivable the scout is by itself, either while conducting the search (in case it gets ambushed mid-search) or when it reaches the base (in case the resident Andro force is stronger than anticipated).

A modified light dreadnought hull might be large and well-armed enough to handle the unexpected, not least if given the X-battery partial-X refit to help bolster its reserve power. A smaller "fast" hull, depending on exactly which of its weapons are to be given up in order to make room for the special sensors required for this mission, might not be quite so well prepared to fend for itself...

By Alex Chobot (Alendrel) on Friday, July 21, 2023 - 03:29 pm: Edit

This pretty much falls under “obvious variant”: take each CWF from Module R11, replace the heavy weapons with special sensors (maybe “deconverting” the heavy weapons that had been replaced with phasers first), and call it good.

As noted, in SFB terms it’s just a scout with more power, and in F&E there are some operational differences that make meshing an F-ship in with X-ships an issue. And with Module X1R, most empires aren’t lacking for X-scout options.

I’d prefer the Fed CFS to remain a unique one-off - one of those cases where the Feds ended up doing something whacky because they have the economy and production capacity to get away with it.

By Scott Tenhoff (Scottt) on Friday, July 21, 2023 - 07:57 pm: Edit

If this does go forward, the CWFS should only keep 2x sensors (as most CWF's only have 2 heavy weapons).

If it has 4x Sensors it just becomes a CA-Scout (4x Sensors w/ 30 warp) with a MC=2/3. So it becomes super effective as a scout with cheap MC and 4 channels.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Friday, July 21, 2023 - 08:32 pm: Edit

Or, how about this: a fast heavy war destroyer?

For example: the Federation HDW has four 6-box warp engines, while their HDWX (or HWX) in Module X1R has four 8-box warp engines. So, perhaps a would-be Fed "HDWF" (or "HWF") might be given four 7-box warp engines instead?

Further, in addition to trimming down the number of photons on the base hull, one could impose certain limitations on the RA weapon mounts; at least, no heavy weapons (such as photons). This could be perhaps due to the lower stress tolerances of this smaller hull frame, when compared to the "unbuilt variant" Federation DLM mentioned in my last post.

You'd still have a "multi-mission" ship which, in principle, could be used in various special sensor-equipped configurations - to include the "-Z" variant (two special sensors plus four F-111s) used by the Federation HDW and HWX to help go after the Andromedan RTN.

How well such a ship might work in practice is another matter - but if one configuration doesn't work out, there's always the next one. (In the simulators, at least...)

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Friday, July 21, 2023 - 11:37 pm: Edit

There's another issue with using a CF-based scout to support an X-squadron.

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Quote:

(XD6.3145) X-ships ignore offensive EW jamming applied by a non- X-scout.

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By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Saturday, July 22, 2023 - 03:38 am: Edit

You guys did read what Steve Petrick said, right?