| By Graham Cridland (Grahamcridland) on Monday, October 21, 2024 - 01:44 pm: Edit |
It is also interesting that after winning Origins and being the runner up, the F torpedo Orion disappeared from tournament practice, as near as I can tell.
Of course, Paul and Norman could probably win tournaments in any reasonably balanced ship but to go 1-2 with a load out that (I think) atypical load out (the F torpedo emphasis) and then have it not repeated is interesting.
(He says, writing F,g,F,f,1 on an SSD.)
| By Roger D. Morgan, Jr. (Sonofkang) on Wednesday, November 06, 2024 - 10:18 pm: Edit |
I was recently re-reading the tactics manual and I came across the passage where it talks about Klingons launching a SP on turn one and then picking up the shuttle (because you can never have too many) after it blossoms.
I have been struggling to be able to do this and still be able to follow the drone wave in for the turn 2 attack. How do you not get so far ahead of the spent SP shuttle that you can tractor it and bring it on board, preferably that turn? I do not like the idea of spending energy dragging it around to rotate it in over a couple turns or being limited in speed so as not to death drag it.
Could someone lay out an example of this being done successfully that leaves you able to still take advantage of the drone swarm and not be hampered by slow speeds?
| By Jack Taylor (Jtaylor) on Thursday, November 07, 2024 - 03:39 pm: Edit |
No matter what you are hampered by slowish speeds at the end of t1 and the beginning of t2.
My personal opinion- one of the biggest advantages of the Klingon is that often it gets to move last when it is going to speed 31. I personally don't think it's worth the shuttle to be constricted like that at the end of t1 and the first half of turn 2 against most opponents.
If you feel like you need to do it- launch the shuttle imp 3 at speed 6. You are speed 12. If you slip out and then back in you can keep the shuttle at range 1 (after it spits out drones) and land it in a single impulse. Time your speed change up right after you land the shuttle.
| By Graham Cridland (Grahamcridland) on Monday, November 18, 2024 - 11:16 am: Edit |
I have been playing a lot of Orion lately, and using the following packages: HgHbb / FgF1f.
(I don't want to have two high power packages; there are some ships where the extra power is needed for other things. I put the gatling in the middle because it would be weird for the ship to be lopsided.)
Here is the theory:
Fed Plasma (sell out for the big brick, avoid R2, and hope they miss with a photon.)
Kli Hellbores (Count their power and engage only if they have to shoot OL off of batteries.)
Kzi Hellbores (Just like the Klingon only you can be more aggressive.)
Ori Hellbores (Probably a mirror, ugh, but what can you do?)
And Plasma (Trick is mostly just to brick the first shot.)
Hyd Plasma (This is a tough one but you just have to hope your engines survive long enough because you can't get close.)
Lyr Hellbores (You probably want to fight at R4-R8 .)
NTH Hellbores (You probably want to fight at R4-R8)
ATH Plasma (You probably want the overrun.)
Grn Hellbores (You don't just want to be down two S torps for a gatling.)
Rom Hellbores (You don't just want to be down two S torps for a gatling.)
AUX Hellbores (You have to put him on a clock. If he is HHbb or something it's going to be hard.)
Wyn Shark Plasma (I guess? Brick the #1 and avoid short range oblique passes.)
ISC Hellbores (Because 2HB>PPC.)
The hardest matchups are the matches where you can't get close, mostly the heavy DF ships (FED, where you more or less have to accept that if he jackpots other than at R1 you just lose, Hydran, where you have to win against the Hellbore clock without getting closer than R3, and disruptor ships who you don't want to tractor because they fire every turn.
| By Carl-Magnus Carlsson (Hardcore) on Tuesday, November 19, 2024 - 01:10 am: Edit |
It may be best to cloak T:1 vs ships with drones. This suggest Plasma package,
| By John L Stiff (Tarkin22180) on Tuesday, November 19, 2024 - 12:46 pm: Edit |
What are you going to do if your Lyran opponent uses his ESG to negate your Hellbores? He still has Disruptors and lots of P1's.
| By Carl-Magnus Carlsson (Hardcore) on Tuesday, November 19, 2024 - 10:05 pm: Edit |
Drones and shuttles to negate it. Take the rest of the ESGs on a shield then turn in and get to gatling range before fire HBs?
| By John L Stiff (Tarkin22180) on Wednesday, November 20, 2024 - 09:59 am: Edit |
That is a plan.
However, the ESGs will weaken or bring down the Orion's facing shield (typically range 3), allowing a Lyran alpha strike that will do a lot of internals.
| By Timothy Linden (Timlinden) on Friday, November 29, 2024 - 03:50 pm: Edit |
I almost exclusively used the HHgBB package. It mostly works against everything. Mostly.
Feds need to get a R2 shot where they can still deal with your drones and also then need to hit with all 4 photons to win (marginally less than 50% if they manage all that, which is not easy). Otherwise they lose.
Klingon/WBS can be beaten if you circle them range 3-5 ready to pounce when the opportunity arises. Dealing with the drones such that you are not getting too far behind on the first exchanges is the trick. And needs lots of practice. The Klingon is harder to deal with here.
Lyrans have ESG's, but they to some extent are relying on those too. If they put up both at R3 then a single overloaded HB takes them down and now they have to deal with all your drones and the other HB. Both R0 and you still get to take them down, force them to deal with your drones/SS, and still get 10 internals from the left over HB damage. It is annoying but not a big problem. Especially as the Lyrans generally won't be able to use the ESG's effectively after that first exchange.
Hydrans really suffer from weapon vulnerability. As long as you avoid a point blank exchange, and also do not engage both the ship and fighters together this is generally an easy matchup.
The Wyn Aux mostly suffers from the significant maneuver disadvantage. Get behind him and stay there, and that is mostly game.
Tholians are also annoying, but you have enough speed/maneuver advantages to get around/through the web at some point and win.
I found the hardest matchups were versus the well flown Klingon and Gorns (discounting the broken Andro, who is mostly easy to kill now).
| By John L Stiff (Tarkin22180) on Tuesday, December 03, 2024 - 09:27 am: Edit |
Unless the ship has changed to 5 option mounts, I think that HHBB or HHgB is still very powerful.
My math says that 2xESG at range 3 has 30 points.
A single overloaded HB automatically does 22 at range 3-4 to the ESG.
This brings the second ESG to 8 points.
The Lyran could change tactics and bring the ESGs up at range 0, giving 40 points. 4 points of 2xHB damage remain - across 4 shields give 1 point each.
A range 4 alpha by the Lyran gives 4xOL Disrupters with UIM (at 1-5 to hit) and 8xP1.
The Wyn has 4xP1.
You are correct in that 6xB racks gives everyone trouble. As you surmised, the drones can weaken the ESGs.
And there is the tractor tactic. As a player, I am afraid of this. A potential 12xDrones over 2 turns does a lot of damage (best near the end of one turn and asap at the beginning of the second turn when available, all while holding the Lyran in a tractor).
The Kzinti is very good at this as well. They can have 12 drones in play with double drone control. When four are destroyed, they can launch 4 more.
Note, one could have 8xB racks for the Wyn, lots of power, speed and a great chance of winning a tractor auction. Once two drones are destroyed, the Wyn can launch 2 more in the same turn.
| By Mike Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Tuesday, December 03, 2024 - 11:06 am: Edit |
Does the Lyran have UIM in the tournament? I thought the klinks has a single use version....
| By Stephen McCann (Moose) on Tuesday, December 03, 2024 - 02:07 pm: Edit |
Lyran has single use UIM, Klingon has no-burnout UIM.
| By Jack Taylor (Jtaylor) on Tuesday, December 03, 2024 - 03:22 pm: Edit |
HHGB isn't a valid package anymore.
| By Stephen McCann (Moose) on Tuesday, December 03, 2024 - 04:51 pm: Edit |
I am not a fan of any 2 HB package in the Wyn Aux. One of its greatest strengths is the excess power it has, and putting 6-12 power into the HBs every turn negates this advantage. About the only HB package I would use is the LIIT, HB and drone up front, P-G LS and Dis RS. Even that is more power intensive than I prefer, but far less so than a 2 HB package.
| By Carl-Magnus Carlsson (Hardcore) on Wednesday, December 04, 2024 - 01:20 am: Edit |
HBs are not that great for Orion either. It has advantages in that they are accurate and are padded by drone racks, but you can only overload one HB from batts and the turn you overload is the turn you attack. The last fact was probably why Paul Scott wrote in his victory at Origins Article:
"Jude [LYRAN] had expected that by leaving up his ESG I would expect him
to press the attack and overload both of my hellbores. My own
play style, however, rarely sees me overloading the hellbores. I
felt I had obtained a good positional advantage on Turn #1 and
was merely seeking to force out the other ESG."
The only advantage of Photons over HBs is that you can apply all the OL energy on the first turn on arming, and attack while holding them with more energy for other things. But I guess I use photons because I like rolling well vs Seth
| By Timothy Linden (Timlinden) on Wednesday, December 04, 2024 - 04:32 pm: Edit |
My post was referring to the Orion taking HHgBB as the main package I used against most everything. While I like the idea of two HB for the WYN Aux, it is a horrible power sink for it as indicated above.
HB vs ESG - while I would really need to check, my recollection was that fire against an ESG was to the actual ESG hex. So being R1 to an ESG meant doing R1 HB damage, regardless where the ship actually was. Unless that has changed. I am pretty sure all the Lyrans I fought generally put them up at range zero anyways, or waited to use them after we exchanged fire in a couple of cases.
| By John L Stiff (Tarkin22180) on Friday, December 06, 2024 - 09:15 am: Edit |
My error, I confused the WAUX with the Orion optional weapons package.
At 24 warp (2/3 movement), 3 imp, 10 APR, 5 batteries, (total power 37 - that is 36 power used with 5 batteries available) the WAUX can go speed 30 with overloaded HBs.
Yes, OL HB are a power sink. At range 1 they do 60 points of damage! Not counting the 6xdrones, 4xP1s and 3xP3s. In theory the drones will draw the opponent's p1 fire.
Note, standard HB do 40 at range 1 (not bad), allowing 6 more power for tractor. The 6xDrones is an advantage, with a potential 6xDrones next turn at range 1.
A battle pass (against plasma races) or closing to range 1 are both viable options for the WAUX.
For me, the 8xDrone package is scary. One may go speed 30 with 24 power used. That allows an awesome 13 points for tractor with 5 batteries in reserve. A max of 192 damage is possible over two turns just from drone damage.
| By Graham Cridland (Grahamcridland) on Friday, December 06, 2024 - 01:30 pm: Edit |
Going to be hard to hit with 16 drones with single drone control... but I remember losing to ... someone (Kingzilla?) in an Orion having thought that my gat would save me from drones, and then just dying to an HHBB Aux because the drones sucked too many weapons and I ran out of engines to burn.
| By Timothy Linden (Timlinden) on Friday, December 06, 2024 - 04:15 pm: Edit |
Ages ago my first game against Lee Larsen was my Aux HHPP (when that was apparently legal) vs. his Firehawk back when double envelopers were the thing. I just ran straight at him, through all the plasmas, taking just irrelevant internals. Then anchored him when he tried to cloak without weaseling first. Still lost as only 1 overloaded photon (12pt) hit out of 4, and only 3 of 4 hellbores (2 std 1 ovl). He managed to get one last enveloper in to finish me off. Was still a fun game, even though that was a terrible package.
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