Archive through September 10, 2024
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Sapphire Star 17 (June 2024):
Archive through September 10, 2024
Jindarian Tournament Cruiser (Improvements to make it playable)
Move the two rear MRG to the front. This allows a bit more “crunch” power.
Change the MRG firing arcs to FA+L and FA+R.
Change the front P-1 arcs to FA+L and FA+R.
Change the 4xAPR to 4xAWR. This is needed to charge MRG’s and maintain a decent speed.
Add 4xP3 in the rear. The ship is very vulnerable to seeking weapons.
Change the added rear P-3 arcs to RA+L and RA-R.
Add 8xArmor. This will allow a bit of damage absorption from enemy alpha strikes.
Remove the 2xProspecting Shuttle boxes. (There is no prospecting in tournament play!)
Jindarian
You need the rear firing MRG. It is the seeking weapon defense. Using the MRG vs seekers is effective.
First it is a LC. Move cost 2/3 Means less warp power. (24 warp) less BTTY (4 not 5)
It has plenty of hull for a tourney ship. 4 more than the LCS has. (option boxes?)
30 power however for a tourney direct fire ship sucks. The LCS has 32 power.
The LCS has 4 360 phaser-1 The tourney ship has 2 and 2 ph3. Then puts 4 phaser 1 on each corner with rf+R and etc. So max in arc is measly 4 ph1. (the LCS can get 5 in the front arc) Extra arcs would help with the phasers but still too few of them. You do not need more phaser-3 2 more phaser-1 360 yes. 6ph-1 any arc would be good. 8 ph1 would be just about right. 4 360 and 1FA+L 1FA+r
1RA+l 1RA+r. leave the 2 360 ph3 for padding.
As for AWR no Jindo ship has them, and it still will not be enough power. I would not be firing all the MRG in a turn any way. Then reload them as LRG after turn 1 loading 1 for seeking defense as an MRG.
The damage absorption is just fine does not need Armour. The prospecting shuttles add that damage sponge.
Still does not fix the LC problem, however. The ship is fast and on an open map would be great. On a closed Map it will get cornered and dead.
The option boxes do not do much just add more internals. 4 labs would be useful.
I do not think You can fix the ship as a LC. However, I do not know if the HCS can be used at all.
Gregg said: "Fakes? If you are using a fake you are playing wrong. The only way to launch a torp is as an EPT! 
"
EPT is king in the mid- and end-game, no doubt, with weak/down shields and dwindled WW stock. On turn 1 with full shields, an EPT is less threatening than 2xReal, and since there are 3 combinations possible, it adds a lot of complexity, flavor, second guessing and this is the core part of the plasma/anti-plasma game.
I'm ready for no fakes and no WW, but just removing fakes, sorry, huge balance disruption, re-calculation, its just a "no go" for SFB. If this is what you want, there is a game like this, go play FC.
With regard to cloaking time limit for all matches, I have not seen this be an issue, as a Rom, I'm generally spending 1-2 turns cloaked max, and if things are not decided by then, it means it is probably not going the Rom's way, and adjudication should probably be invoked to avoid the 25 turn epic. This "light cloak" strategy works with a new proposed time limit, but I think giving the Rom something in return is fair. Maybe that extra forward hull that was mentioned? I think the most affected is probably TKE.
Agree with Geoff... It would be way to big of a balance disruption to even consider removing Fake torps and WW.
Gregg
If I remember correctly the F torps on all ships do not have fakes except for the TKE.
No way the game is balanced without fakes and ww's. Not in a million years.
BS (KLI) over Cat (FED) on 1.32.
He rolled hot. I missed with 2 photons at range 4.
That combined with the fact that I'd deal with reload, drones and get blasted again - not worth fighting out.
I'll let BS report more if he cares to. To me, the above just says it all about the TCC.
I have to say that the redesign you are requesting for the Neo-Tholian falls under the rubric of redesigning the entire ship. While the SSD looks like you can just change the FA phaser-1s to FX, it is not so. The phaser-1s on the command module are 360 degree, but lost the RA arc due to the command module connecting so high up on the rear hull that they cannot fire under the hull, and the command module is so close to the hull that the R+RA and L+RA and RA firing arcs are blocked by the engines. The Klingon D-hulls get around this by scalloping the rear hull so the phasers can fire under it and are mounted so far forward that they can fire into the side arcs. I am sorry, but you would have to completely change the design of the Neo-Tholian NCA (and NCL and other Neo-Tholian ships) to accomplish this, and at this point we are not going to do that.
So far Sapphire Star XVII seems to be running on schedule. Thank you all for your efforts on this score. I am, however, seriously looking at some changes for the next iteration, and while the Neo-Tholian will not get broader phaser-1 arcs, some changes may be made,
Gregory,
I appreciate your reply.
Using the MRG as drone defense takes away offensive fire power. And there are only 4 boxes of ammunition.
The maximum alpha strike at range 8 is 20 from MRG and change from the 4 bearing P1. And this is a centerline shot. It will not penetrate the opponent's front shield. It is like a G-torp and phasers - not a pleasant situation. (Subtract 10 and a P1 for a non-centerline shot.)
Moving the MRG's to the front, giving better arcs (MRG and P1), allows the Jindaran more crunch power. The maximum alpha strike at range 8 becomes 40 from MRG and change from the 4 bearing phasers. One is likely to bring down a facing shield and do internals. It is like 2xG-torp and phasers. The question becomes how much should the Jindarian arm while slowing down and running away?
The max speed is 24 (using 8xwarp over two turns for MRG). The 4xAPR takes care of the maintenance of 4. The impulse can charge 2xP1. This leaves the other 2xP1 for the use of batteries. If one wants a WW, SS, transporter, or tractor - it is a further drain on power, slowing the Jindarian down. The max speed to charge the other 2xP1 is 21 to preserve batteries.
While a nice speed, the reality of a fixed map allows an opponent to close on the Jindarian that has only phasers available. The question is whether the Jindarian can run far enough and be able to turn and face the closing opponent with all of the forward facing MRG by next turn. Turn mode C is not great at doing this.
John
Ages ago when I played the Jindarian in some Saturday Patrols when that was allowed, I found it short on power. And the general attack plan was approach, shoot, turn, shoot some more, run, then next turn shoot/het/shoot (you'd Always Het at least once each game to get that firepower concentration), try to run to a corner where you'd dump out the 6 shuttles and hope not to die to the opponent coming up to stomp you. Worked somewhat, but a bit under 50% as I recall. If you can keep distance the MRG's will blow away your opponent, but as that is fairly obvious they do not let that happen.
John
You come in as close to head on as you can. Fire the RF+R railgun or the LF+L. Turn across and fire the left or right side. keep turning away. Use the last rail gun as self-defense if needed or as a last shot on damaged shield. If all 3 hit around range 10 outside 8. 30 damage but unless bad dice 20 for sure.
Now next turn. Load the MRGs as LRGs. That gives You 4 more power. Given it takes 1 point to hold any You did not fire.
you can then turn in on the chasing ship and have phasers plus LRGs. 1 point of power and hits better than a standard DISR. Knife fight out of all 4 corners.
The main problem
as has been said. It is a LC. It needs more power and 2 more phaser-1.
I have done this and it works. Vs a more even BPV any way. The LCS is 135 BPV. I think a bit low for a tourney ship.
Hope that helps some.
As for defensive Mode. Yes, limited ammo. Takes away from heavy weapon output. But can kill a plasma S. As for drones a 1-2 kills it over 8 imp rolling once per drone good chance of killing them. A lot better than using phasers.
Hi Gregory, Timothy,
I admit that the LRG is slightly better than a P1.
Does 6xP1 and 4x"equivalent" P1 stand up? Your opponent has P1s and heavy weapons. They can concentrate on a single shield.
I found it hard to keep seeking weapons inside "the cone". (Maybe that is me...) The good news is that all seeking weapons have the potential to take damage. A true area effect weapon.
I find that my opponents close the range and alpha strike my Jindarian. Using LRG, they would face 2xLRG, 2xP1. (The 2xP1 (360) can of course be fired.) In my opinion, their heavy weapons win the battle.
Question, would the HCS (BPV of 180) have a chance in tournament play? It has 4xMRG and 9xP1.
John
I always fired MRG's. They are really accurate and do a lot of damage. 2 MRG at ranges 3-5 have about a 70% chance of doing 20 damage, where 4 overloaded non-Klingon disruptors are only somewhat likely to do 24, or 32 20% of the time. For 4 times the power. It is still the trick to last long enough for that to matter before they can get to point blank range and try to squash you. Being able to dump out 6 shuttles won me a couple of the games, as a porta gatling and a half is pretty good when you park in the corner and tac your other MRG's around after getting hit. Now, I am reasonably sure I fought few plasma ships. I expect surviving an anchor is much harder, especially when you cannot really afford lots of WW to dump at the end. Especially when that also means you have less shuttles shooting them. You would likely need the bit more power and probably have to do a second HET to have much of a chance. But with enough power to keep up your speed enough it would force an anchor bid over envelopers. I did like the Jindarian, and would be happy if it got a bit of power to be playable. Though I do expect it may be hard to balance satisfactorily.
3.2 BS-KLI vs kingzilla-RKR
This Monday at 7 EST
What happened in the Von_Nasty (LYR) vs Spartan (ISC?) game?
Spartan got to close t1 & Nasty went threw all ISC stuff and got r4 ish ol shot with about 30 + internals. LDR had shield damage but no internals. It was game over then but Spartan thought there was a chance. They played it but Nasty made no mistakes and won.
That pretty well sums it up. Spartan plays well hurt and so does the ISC in general. Von Nasty was just way too far ahead after turn 1 and continued to play cautiously and smart.
Thanks!
There were some highlights, I'll post a typical detailed review, it is fun and worth reading about.
Seth, what happened vs Bill?
Yeah Seth, what happened?
Bill won. Ran out enveloper mostly on turn 2. He launched a single 30 pointer hit it with 7p3s on imp 32. On impulse 1 turn 3 it hit for 17 to my 2 shield and the chase was on. I ate 3 f torps on 3 different shields, and reached range 2 after his escape jet and my counter het. I hit with 4 std dis, 5p1s and a p3 for 18 in on his 3 shield. Then on turn 4 I hit his 4 shield with 4 ol, 2p2, 5 p1s and did another 15 or do in. I had taken 3 power hits and a p3, while he lost 11 power, an f torp and only had 4 p1s left for phasers. We continued for several turns of him pitching out plasma to chase me, but I was wearing down more shields with disr. On the last turn he bolted his s torp missed and 4 p1s doing 13 damage to a 13 point shield at range 4. I was going to get a juicy shot probably on a down shield and he surrendered.
Bill played a good conservative game. My plan was to dick around for 3 or 4 turns to draw the game out. I was thinking I'm savoir faire and you cant catch me. I was doing good weaking his shields as i was not taking much shield damage. Then the plan went to •••• when I got trapped up on top of the board - knowing I was going to get hit 2x before I can get away. When the dust settled I was hurt and i was able to get to 2 turns to rearm and do some repairs. Then on the last turn when I thought I can hurt him I had a menatl block on witch side plasma was launchable. A 2nd problem but did not cause me to die was my dice SUCKED.
stimp (Gorn) over putraack (ISC)
T1 - ISC comes out at speed 22 (top), Gorn at 17 (from the bottom). Mid-turn, ISC slows to 17 & turns in (dir C) & Gorn speeds up to 26. ISC launches both G-torps (an EPT & a PPT).
At range 12 ISC establishes wave-lock with ppd on Gorn #6 shield, then gets to range 10 for 3 of the pulses, Gorn turns out for last pulse, taking it on the #5.
7 reinforcement seen from Gorn on various shields. Gorn runs from torps & ISC turns B, paralleling Gorn, then turns A towards the wall near the end of turn.
T2 - ISC starts at speed 17 while Gorn is 24 to run out torps a bit more. Imp 5 gorn eats the fake G for what would have been 1 pt & EPT fizzles out. Gorn turns A & speeds up to 31
to pursue ISC. ISC turns F & runs towards the NW corner & speeds up to 29 midway through turn. Gorn slows to 24 and tries to herd ISC into the corner. Towards end of turn,
ISC launches one of the rear F's, and Gorn launches 2xS-torp on imp 32.
T3 - Gorn starts at speed 17 & ISC is speed 0. ISC launches WW on imp 6. Gorn turns out to run out the rear F a bit. S-torps impact the WW on impulse 11, and both are fake. Gorn takes 1 damage from the
rear F, and wheels back towards the ISC. ISC speeds up to 10. Inside range 10, Gorn launches S & F at ISC, and ISC fires ppd centered on Gorn #3 shield. Gorn kills the voided ww with 3ph-1s at range 8.
Gorn has a few pts of reinf. for ppd, but eats most of it. ISC announces ED on imp 26, and uses 2nd WW on the incoming 50pts (taking collateral on the #3).
T4 - ISC is limited to speed 0 until imp 11. Gorn also parks. ISC launches EPT g-torp imp 5, which Gorn weasels. Gorn tacs offside torps into arc, and ISC speeds up to 8 once eligible.
Gorn speeds up to 4 midturn & launches another S & F on imp 20. which impact the ISC #2 imp 28 for 45 damage, 10 ints after reinf. (lwarp, rwarp, ph-3 & hull). EOT, gorn repairs a couple boxes on the #6.
T5 - ISC comes out speed 8, Gorn is speed 10. ISC launches a G-torp early (has to be real). ISC speeds up to 17 & Gorn waddles away from the G torp, speeding up to 14 once able.
ISC fires ppd on Gorn #4 at range 8. Gorn gives the G-torp 6xph-3, taking it down by 10 pts. It hits the #5 for 5 pts. PPD is overloaded, but Gorn blocks 14 pts of the damage. ISC adds 4 range 8 ph-1s to the 5th pulse
taking down the Gorn #4. Gorn hets back towards ISC for the 6th pulse, as the rear shields are shot, but the fronts are actually still pretty good. ISC turns away & launches a rear F
Gorn phasers up the F-torp & eats it on the #1 for 5. ISC throws in 2xph-1 at range 5 now & rolls 1,2 for 9pts, taking the Gorn #1 down to 12 pts. ISC launches a shuttle imp 32 (shuttle #3). gorn shields
are 12/29/7/0/7/23, ISC shields are mostly full except for a hole in the #2 & some collateral on the #3.
T6 - ISC is speed 17, Gorn is speed 8. Imp 1, gorn launches S & F (range 5), looks like they will catch the ISC before they can speed up. Gorn fires 4xph-1 at ISC before they get outside of range 5 & does 15 to the #5.
Gorn slows to speed 4 on imp 8. ISC shoots some phasers into the torps & takes them for 38 on the #3 for 17 internals (lwarp, rwarp, ph-3, both F-torps, 2xph-1, tractor, and 3 batts --pretty happy with that volley).
Gorn swings around & gets range 1 from the ISC shuttle & shoots it with 2xph-3, it's a SS! Gorn takes the rear F on the #1 for 11 pts after phasering it, but bricks the whole thing away.
T7 - ISC parks, Gorn is speed 14 with goal of getting back to center of the map. Rolling an S-torp & an F online, other S & F coming next turn. ISC tacs its ppd back into arc, and gets the down shields pointed away.
Gorn heads up the map towards the center, keeping outside of range 15, until imp 32, Gorn turns into range 15 #6 to #6.
T8 - ISC still parked. Gorn speed 8 until imp 12, then down to 4. Gorn keeps coming towards ISC, bricked up & weasels ready. Imp 27 ISC launches EPT. Imp 32 Gorn launches a bigger EPT.
T9 - both parked, range 10. ISC let's loose with yet another ppd shot, and misses with the first pulse! Gorn bricks away the rest, save for 1 pt on the #5. Both of us weasel away the EPTs, but this is the last shuttle for the ISC, and
Gorn still has 2 shuttles left (both held as WW). Gorn launches an F-torp, tacs & launches another F & an EPT & ISC concedes.
Final Notes:
ISC used all 4 cdr (awr,awr,batt,batt)
Gorn originally had 2 shuttles held as SS, but changed mission on T5.
After seeing the 2nd WW already on T3, the goal quickly became to run them out -- the turn 5 SS launch was a big help in that endeavor.
Lastly, nice to have another great player in Lee onboard for SS! Good game, Lee!