Duplicate message

By Seth Shimansky (Kingzila) on Thursday, October 03, 2024 - 06:03 pm: Edit

Hi everybody - 1st time back online since the storm. Family is all ok and doing well. I have been cleaning and repairing after storm damage and helping otheres in need. This will be a long recovery for Asheville & surrounding areas.

By Daniel Bitseff (Cadet_Stimpy) on Thursday, October 03, 2024 - 06:34 pm: Edit

Glad to hear you & family are ok, Seth!

By Geoffrey Clark (Spartan) on Thursday, October 03, 2024 - 09:52 pm: Edit

Good to hear you and your family weathered the storm, and are helping others, Seth!

By Daniel Bitseff (Cadet_Stimpy) on Saturday, October 05, 2024 - 12:17 am: Edit

Gorn v Klingon final

T1 - Klingon has a 15/16/22 speed plot (19 moves), 4 overloads armed, no special shuttles other than scatterpack. Gorn has 17/26 plot (22 moves), holding torp A as a G, torp B is an EPT, also holding 2xSS & charging a WW. Klingon launches scatterpack early & blossoms on imp 12. Both of us move towards center of map. Imp 18, Gorn launches EPT from B before it goes out of arc & begins slipping away from Klingon. Klingon decides not to try to achieve range 8 and turns out to run out the EPT. Gorn turns in to pursue Klingon. Klingon splits sp drones into stacks of 4 & 2, and gets the stack of 4 in front of the Gorn, which uses 4xph-1 to kill on imp 30. Klingon launches 2 more drones (spd 20) on imp 31. I don't recall how far apart we were at end of turn, but maybe range 10ish? with Klingon nearing the wall.

T2 - I consider going all out for the anchor, but Klingon really has too much room to run still. Gorn plots speed 26 all turn, recharging torp B, still holding A as a G torp, 1 point into tractor, 1 pt to recharge phaser cap., holding 2xss, 1xww. Klingon goes 26-15-26 (23 moves) with standard disruptors armed & starts charging a WW. Gorn & the EPT keep pursuing Klingon as he slips towards the wall, heading D. Gorn labs & shoots down the ship launched drones with ph-1s (both type IM), 2 scatterpack drones are still trailing. Klingon slows to speed 15 on impulse 8 & Gorn launches A (30 - ppt) & C (20), then turns A to go rearm. In hindsight, torp A should've been real because I had a good route to get away to rearm, and it was very likely to hit for significant damage if he didn't WW (I was hoping & expecting the WW, because I'm too lazy to track power (he couldn't have had one armed) -- but maybe I learned a lesson here!). Gorn flies off to the north, taking out the 2 scatterpack drones & death dragging the scatterpack shuttle. Klingon skirts the wall & takes the EPT for 2 pts, and after phasering up the other torps, eats them for 1 (would have been 19 total if the S was real). Klingon turns back in to get back towards center map. Imp 26, Gorn is back in the Klingon's FA (range 21) and Klingon fires the std disruptors & hits with 3 for 6 damage, Gorn blocks 5.

T3 - My torps are now skewed, as I have the online S on the LP side & the online F on the RS, which is uncomfortable. My plan is to waddle away, let the Klingon burn speed, and then hopefully stay far enough away to get torps back online for a good deterrent launch. I'm speed 17 all turn, recharge batts & phasers & torps, still holding the ss, but with the scatterpack dispatched, I change mission on the WW. Klingon is 26 all turn, 2 std disruptors armed, 4 into phaser cap to fill it up, 1 ww held. Gorn slips into the NE corner while Klingon jets across the map. Klingon starts getting uncomfortably close & uses reserve to speed up to 31 on imp 27. Klingon gets a range 4 shot on imp 29 & uses remaining batts to overload the disruptors. 2 OL & 5 ph-1 do 26 to Gorn #2 (one ol disruptor missed). Gorn does not return fire nor block any damage. Klingon is now slipping away from Gorn & Gorn is back in pursuit mode. Klingon launches 2 speed 20 drones imp 32.

T4 - My torps are back online (except an F for next turn), phaser cap & batteries are full, still holding the 2xSS. I do a 26-17 split with 3 in tractor, hoping I can catch up to the Klingon before the 2nd half of the turn. Klingon does a 21-26-15 split, recharging some phaser cap (3), no disruptors armed, 4 into tractor, still holding 1xWW. Klingon turns D & Gorn pursues. Gorn labs the T3 drones & they are type I & type VI, kills the type I with a ph-1 & eats the VI on the #5. Klingon turns E imp 7 & Gorn follows suit. Gorn chasing Klingon towards the center of the map. Gorn slows to speed 17, on 15, but will actually gain a hex on the Klingon from it. Klingon turns D to present a nasty phaser hose on Gorn #1 should Gorn want to turn in for range 2. Gorn takes a range 3 shot on Klingon #4 (bolts the G (didn't upgrade it to S), 4xph-1), bolt hits & Klingon takes 26 & blocks 3. Now decision time, Gorn can scoot away & still have plenty online to discourage pursuit, or can go for the kill (sacrificing the #1 to do it). Encouraged by the 3 reinf. seen, I decide to turn in to range 2 (my #1 to Klingon #4) and attempt the anchor. It not only fails spectacularly, but I also drain my batts in the attempt (he only used his allocated tractor). Klingon then launches 2 fast drones in my face. Klingon does rear phaser alpha at range 2 (all 10 capacitor used!) and does 46 damage. Gorn bolts an F-torp in return, which hits. Klingon takes 9 in (rwarp, lwarp, batt, ph-3), Gorn takes 16 in (ph-1, pl-F, ph-1 lwarp & lots of hull), I had to save the ph-3's for the drones in my face, so destroyed ph-1s. Considered trying to use the SS to take out the drones, but while inquiring about some rules, Bill informed me that with how the movement panned out, I would eat both his drones & my own SS if I attempted it. I labbed the drones (type IV & type I). Killed the heavy with the ph-3's, killed the medium with a ph-1, and had a ph-1 left to shoot the Klingon for 4 more ints (lwarp, rwarp, ph-3, ph-2). Imp 21 Klingon slows to speed 15 and Gorn launches the S-torp from B, hoping to land it on the down #4. Klingon emer decels & Gorn turns away to go lick wounds while Klingon WW the torp. We end the turn at range 8, Klingon facing E & Gorn facing B after turning around.

T5 - I gotta lot of stuff to rearm, luckily Klingon is stopped from emer decel, so I can get away to do it. I go speed 17 for 5 imps, then 12 for the remainder. 4 pts back into phaser cap, recharge the S-torps, finish off the remaining F torp, repair a shield box on the #1. Klingon has some tacs, 6 into general reinf., 7 back into phaser capacitor & moves speed 10 from imp 10. CDR, Klingon repairs 2xph-3, Gorn repairs a ph-3 & puts a couple pts towards repairing the f-torp. Imp 1, Gorn is still on the Klingon #4, so fires 4xph-1 that are cycled. 4 pts are blocked from 8 gen. reinf. for 3 internals (ph-2, lwarp, aft hull). Gorn moves to range 9 as Klingon tacs the down shield away. We wiggle across the map at speed 12 & 10 until the eot.

T6 - Klingon is speed 10 for 10, then 20 until the end, with 4 standards armed, 1 into transporter & another ww armed. Gorn stops & tacs, holding 1 F-torp & in the 2nd turn of arming both S's. 4 pts for tacs,, 7 pts to recharge phasers, and a 16 pt brick on the #6. Klingon is charging in, so Gorn launches the F-torp & a fastload from torp A. Klingon does another emer decel, stopping at range 5 from Gorn. Klingon blasts with 1 overload (from batts) 3 standards, and 5ph-1 for 28 damage to the bricked shield, landing 12 pts. Klingon weasels the torps (3rd shuttle used), taking 6 collateral on the #2. Gorn uses reserves to speed up to 4 mid-turn to try & get some separation. Gorn finishes repair of F-torp,

T7 - Gorn has B torp online & does rolling delay as it is on the wrong side, starts re-arming torp A after the fastload & starts re-arming both F-torps, goes speed 10 for 17, then up to 13 for remainder, has a 10 pt brick on the #5. Gorn gives up on the SS & does change mission on both this turn. Klingon is speed 9, 4 into phaser cap., 4x std disruptor, 5 reinf. on the #4, still holding a ww. Klingon chases Gorn at slow speeds into the NW corner, near end of turn we both use reserves to gain an extra hex (me to speed 14, klingon to speed 10). Imp 25 Klingon fires the standard disruptors, hitting with 3 for 9 pts, which is absorbed by the brick on #5. Imp 28, Klingon fires 5ph-1's at Gorn at range 7 on Gorn #4 shield for 9 pts, which sticks. Imp 32, Gorn returns fire range 6 out the #4 hitting Klingon #1 with 6xph-1 doing 18 pts with good rolls. EOT, Klingon repairs a ph-2.

T8 - I figure Klingon is gonna run at me, as he needs to be closer to finish me off. I can't really prevent it, based on map position & torp situation, so I park. This allows me to tack B torp into arc. I rearm phasers, arm B as an EPT (expecting it to pull out the last ww), and have 4 pts reinf. on my #4 (just enough (adding batteries) to prevent internals if he fires & hits with 4 overloads before I can tac), and 4 pts reinf. on my #3, which I plan on pointing towards him all turn. I also have 2 into tractor to help with drone defense, and start charging a ww. Klingon has 3 standards, recharges phasers and moves 16 (15-19-15). Imp 1, Klingon does not fire on the Gorn weak #4. Imp 2, Gorn tacs & launches the EPT & Klingon turns out to run it out a bit. Klingon miscalculates & ends up eating EPT for full (minus 2 pts from a ph-3 shot), for 6 ints (ph-3, tractor, impulse, disruptor, rwarp). Gorn was hoping for an add hit, but launches 2 shuttles anyway, to help with drone defense or pot-shots on Klingon shields. Klingon spins back around and uses add to quickly dispatch 1 shuttle & cripple the other. Klingon gets to range 3 on Gorn #3 shield & fires 1 OL, 2xStd, 5xph-1, and ph-2, hits with OL & 1 Std, does 37 pts. With the allocated reinforcement & batteries, Gorn blocks 9 & takes 5 ints (ph-3, rwarp, lwarp). Gorn tacs the bad shield away & fires 5ph-1 at Klingon #2 at range 3 for 23 pts, doing 9 internals (impulse, 3xbattery, disruptor, ph-3, ph-2, rwarp).

T9 - My fronts are mostly shot, but I still have a couple rear shields mostly intact, so I go max speed in reverse (10) towards the Klingon. Rolling torp A, recharging phasers, finishing off both F-torps & holding a ww. Klingon puts 6 into the phaser cap & 14 into movement, doing a 10-15 split, and repairs shield boxes on the #2 & #4. Gorn charges Klingon ass-first & Klingon tries to keep away. Imp 26, Gorn launches torp D before he's about to turn it out of arc. Imp 32, Gorn fires 4xph-1 at range 8 for 7 pts on Klingon #5 shield. EOT, Gorn repairs the RS ph-3.

T10 - Klingon has an OL DR & std DR, phaser cap topped off from last turn, and 20 pts into movement (speed 20 all turn). Gorn finishes A-torp as an S, holds C, is in turn 2 of B & turn 1 of D, has 6 pts of reinf. on the #5 and is moving speed 12 in reverse. Klingon uses a ph-3 and speed to run the T9 F-torp to zero. Imp 16, Gorn uses batts to speed up to 17 in reverse to try to get a better launch opportunity, and puts the S-torp on the map on impulse 19. Imp 21, Gorn manuevers onto the Klingon weak #1. Klingon launches a drone, and Gorn fires 3 ph-1's range 4, Klingon returns fire with OL, STD, and 2xph-1. Gorn does 14 for 10 internals on Klingon (ph-1, lwarp, impulsex2, transp, rwarpx2). Klingon does 18, not breaking through the Gorn #6. Klingon next eats the S-torp for 23 ints, then eats the F-torp taking down the last good shield (no ints). We exchange more phaser fire at range 1, each taking 8 more ints. Gorn announces ED, hoping to be able to WW the last Klingon heavy drone so as to save phasers for the Klingon. Klingon also emer decels & comes to range 0. Gorn fires 2xph-1 for 10 ints, getting the last drone & most everything else & Klingon concedes.

Excellent game, Bill, as always. Thanks!

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Saturday, October 05, 2024 - 08:12 am: Edit

Congrats, Stimpy!

By Jack Taylor (Jtaylor) on Saturday, October 05, 2024 - 10:51 am: Edit

Crown 1 Gorn Bakija
Crown 2 KR Kingzilla

S1 Gorn Bakija
S2 Shark MadJack
S3 Klingon BS
S4 Gorn Bakija
S5 Klingon MadJack
S6 Aux Droid
S7 Shark MadJack
S8 TFH Metaldog
S9 Shark CaptainRon
S10 TKR Kingzilla
S11 Orion Madman
S12 Gorn Stimpy
S13 TKR Kingzilla
S14 ISC Spartan
S15 Gorn Bakija
S16 Gorn MadJack
S17 Gorn Stimpy

19 tournaments:

Gorn = 7
TKR = 3
ISC = 1
TFH = 1
Shark = 3
Klingon = 2
Orion = 1
Aux = 1

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Saturday, October 05, 2024 - 11:22 am: Edit

I honestly don't think that this says anything at all about the power levels of particular ships--for decades, the Gorn (and the TKR), for example, was considered incredibly average, and the stats generally supported that.

I think this just speaks to the idea that (and I say this with utter humility) the people who are still playing this game and are good at it have been leaning into Big Plasma, as that is what they like playing.

By Daniel Bitseff (Cadet_Stimpy) on Saturday, October 05, 2024 - 04:10 pm: Edit

This came up in a recent game, and I'm wondering how many are aware of, and following this rule regarding ED. So, you pay for the full turn of movement, even though you don't move some of it, and those non-movements are converted to shield reinforcement?

(C8.412) If this post-deceleration period extends into the next turn,
the ship remains at zero speed for the required first several impulses
of the next turn, then accelerates from that point, paying for a full turn
of movement even though it does not receive part of it. [If using
(C12.0), the ship pays, for this non-moving period, at the rate for the
highest speed used during that turn, but cannot count it as a basis for
future acceleration.] The unused movement energy from this period
of the subsequent turn is treated as in (C8.102). Note that movement

power that would normally be spent for movement during the post-
deceleration period after an energy allocation phase is treated under

(C8.102) during that subsequent turn and is converted to shield
reinforcement.

By Jack Taylor (Jtaylor) on Saturday, October 05, 2024 - 04:48 pm: Edit

Daniel- I wasn't aware of the shield reinforcement part but was aware of the rest. It is interesting in that it might give you some indication of power expenditure if you shoot a guy during the decel period of the subsequent turn.

By Daniel Bitseff (Cadet_Stimpy) on Saturday, October 05, 2024 - 10:44 pm: Edit

I was also wondering how reserve power speed changes would play into it -- "[If using
(C12.0), the ship pays, for this non-moving period, at the rate for the
highest speed used during that turn"

If you make a reserve warp speed change, do you need to pay more to account for this?

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Sunday, October 06, 2024 - 08:45 am: Edit

Wait. What?

So you decel on and stop on, say, impulse 24 on turn N.

Your post decel period (where you can't move) extends to impulse 8 on turn N+1 (16 impulses).

You plot speed 8 for turn N+1. You can't start moving speed 8 until impulse 9 on turn N+1, but you have to pay for speed 8 from the start of the turn, losing 2 hexes of movement.

These 2 lost hexes of movement *also* turn into shield reinforcement at 2:1 (i.e. 2 hexes of lost movement become 1 point of reinforcement)?

That is a baffling twist I never noticed in decades of this game.

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandar) on Sunday, October 06, 2024 - 11:13 am: Edit

You could just plot speed 0 for the needed impulses then speed up to ten. The most you can accelerate by any way. That is what most people do any way.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Sunday, October 06, 2024 - 11:47 am: Edit

>>You could just plot speed 0 for the needed impulses then speed up to ten.>>

The post emergency deceleration period rule (C8.4) specifically prohibits doing that.

You have to pay for speed that you aren't able to use during the post decel period if it overlaps into the next turn, and if using mid-turn speed changes, you have to pay based on the highest speed you have in the next turn.

So if you decel to a stop on impulse 24 of turn N, you are still penalized by the post deceleration period till impulse 8 of turn N+1 (i.e. 16 impulses from stop). If you want to speed up to 4 on impulse 8 for 9, you need to pay for moving speed 4 on impulses 1-8, even though you won't move.

If you are using mid turn speed changes, if you want to accelerate to speed 4 on impulse 8 for 9, and then accelerate to speed 10 on impulse 16 for 17, you can do that, but you need to pay as if you were moving speed 10 on impulses 1-8 (losing 2 hexes, IIRC), even though you are only going to move speed 4 when you start moving on impulse 9.

The big revelation here is that those lost hexes of movement actually become sheild reinforcement (which, well, will likely only be a point, if even that, as it is 2:1 conversion). Which I suspect that most people never even noticed was a rule. I certainly didn't :-)

By Geoffrey Clark (Spartan) on Sunday, October 06, 2024 - 06:46 pm: Edit

Peter said: "I think this just speaks to the idea that (and I say this with utter humility) the people who are still playing this game and are good at it have been leaning into Big Plasma, as that is what they like playing."

I agree with this, I'm not sure the Gorn or KR are unbalanced at all, it just means there are good players who like the BigPlasma and play it often. I think the sample size is too small here to draw any conclusions. Thanks to Jack for compiling the data, on the Sapphire victors; I've got a bigger set of all (or most) Sapphire battles in total, and also previous tournaments. I'll work on that database a bit, and share some analysis (I can provide that raw data to others who are interested too).

By Jack Taylor (Jtaylor) on Monday, October 07, 2024 - 02:55 pm: Edit

Tournament Callsign 2nd place

Crown 1 MadJack Shark
Crown 2 CaptainRon Shark

S1 Grim ISC
S2 MadMan Orion
S3 Droid Lyran
S4 MadJack Shark
S5 Kingzilla Hydran
S6 Kingzilla Fed
S7 Madman Neo
S8 RomWe Hydran
S9 CrashandBurn Aux
S10 MadJack Kzinti
S11 Spartan ISC
S12 Moose Aux
S13 MadJack Hydran
S14 MadJack Shark
S15 Spartan ISC
S16 Spartan RFH
S17 BS Klingon

2nd place summary:

Shark: 4
ISC: 3
Klingon: 1
RFH: 1
Fed: 1
Lyran: 1
Aux: 2
Hydran: 3
Kzinti: 1
Neo-Tholian: 1
Orion: 1

By Jack Taylor (Jtaylor) on Monday, October 07, 2024 - 03:11 pm: Edit

Sapphire Surprises (to me anyway)
1. No web ship has won. Only 1 2nd place (Neo).
2. ATH not in a single final in 19 tournaments
3. Gorn won every final it got into (7)
4. Fed in ONE final (lost), not very surprising.

38 ships in finals:

16 appearances by Big Plasma (KR,Gorn,FH,ISC)
7 appearances by the Shark
1 appearance by the FED. ONE.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Tuesday, October 08, 2024 - 10:04 am: Edit

Jack--thanks for banging this info out!

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Wednesday, October 09, 2024 - 05:23 pm: Edit

Gentlemen:
I am sorry but I do not have the names of the players memories and I need the to complete the list of winners, can I bet your forbearance and the names?

Here is the list to date.

FIRST PLACE
CADET STIMPY

SECOND PLACE
Bill Schoeller

THIRD PLACE
Von Nasty
Kingzilla

FOURTH PLACE
Ted Fay
CRASH AND BURN
SPARTAN
Putraack

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Wednesday, October 09, 2024 - 05:38 pm: Edit

Never mind, I got it,It. It has been sent to Jean.

By Jack Taylor (Jtaylor) on Wednesday, October 09, 2024 - 07:19 pm: Edit

Does this mean we can start the next one?????

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Thursday, October 10, 2024 - 02:02 pm: Edit

jean stil has to process the list of winners.

By Timothy Linden (Timlinden) on Friday, October 11, 2024 - 04:08 pm: Edit

Some stats on the Sapphire Star ship counts by rounds, as my interest was piqued by Mr. Taylor's stats. Which is unfortunately not too easy to read - formatting goes away, boo. Or at least I do not know how to do those properly.

Ship counts by round, with a 'win%' being just how many advanced from the prior round as a percentage.

I find the round 1 to 2 stats interesting - most ships have a 40-60% win ratio. The three poor showings are the RKE, SEL and THA. With the Archaeo-Tholian fairly egregious at only 1 of 12 round one ships winning. Likely from the near perfect web placement required to not die horribly with that ship. And of note is the nerfed Andro winning 4 of 8 round 1 matches... Classic Big Plasma (GRN/RFH/RKR) doing quite well as noted (though the RKR did poorly in round 3 matches).

Ship popularity is rather influenced by people with favourite ships. E.g. Gorn is #2 overall, but 10 of those 29 are Peter Bakija flying that a lot.

Anyhow, for anyone who is interested! Back to lurking.

Ship Rnd1 Rnd2 win% Rnd3 win% Rnd4 win% Fnl win%
AND 8 4 50.0 1 25.0 0 0.0 0 na
FED 19 10 52.6 5 50.0 1 20.0 0 0.0
GRN 29 14 48.3 9 64.3 6 66.7 6 100.0
HYD 32 17 53.1 5 29.4 3 60.0 0 0.0
ISC 12 6 50.0 5 83.3 4 80.0 1 25.0
KLI 27 14 51.9 7 50.0 3 42.9 2 66.7
KZI 22 9 40.9 1 11.1 1 100.0 0 0.0
LDR 5 2 40.0 0 0.0 0 na 0 na
LYR 14 7 50.0 4 57.1 1 25.0 0 0.0
ORI 15 8 53.3 4 50.0 2 50.0 1 50.0
RFH 8 7 87.5 4 57.1 2 50.0 1 50.0
RKE 3 1 33.3 0 0.0 0 na 0 na
RKR 11 8 72.7 8 100.0 2 25.0 2 100.0
SEL 6 1 16.7 0 0.0 0 na 0 na
THA 12 1 8.3 0 0.0 0 na 0 na
THN 5 3 60.0 2 66.7 1 50.0 0 0.0
VUD 2 1 50.0 0 0.0 0 na 0 na
WAX 22 13 59.1 8 61.5 3 37.5 1 33.3
WBS 20 10 50.0 5 50.0 5 100.0 3 60.0
Total 272 136 68 34 17

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Friday, October 11, 2024 - 04:15 pm: Edit

Trying to table format Tim's data:

Ship	Rnd1	Rnd2	win%	Rnd3	win%	Rnd4	win%	Fnl	win%
AND	8	4	50.0	1	25.0	0	0	0.0	na
FED	19	10	52.6	5	50.0	1	20.0	0.0	0
GRN	29	14	48.3	9	64.3	6	66.7	6	100.0
HYD	32	17	53.1	5	29.4	3	60.0	0	0.0
ISC	12	6	50.0	5	83.3	4	80.0	1	25.0
KLI	27	14	51.9	7	50.0	3	42.9	2	66.7
KZI	22	9	40.9	1	11.1	1	100.0	0	0.0
LDR	5	2	40.0	0	0.0	0	na	0	na
LYR	14	7	50.0	4	57.1	1	25.0	0	0.0
ORI	15	8	53.3	4	50.0	2	50.0	1	50.0
RFH	8	7	87.5	4	57.1	2	50.0	1	50.0
RKE	3	1	33.3	0	0.0	0	na	0	na
RKR	11	8	72.7	8	100.0	2	25.0	2	100.0
SEL	6	1	16.7	0	0.0	0	na	0	na
THA	12	1	8.3	0	0.0	0	na	0	na
THN	5	3	60.0	2	66.7	1	50.0	0	0.0
VUD	2	1	50.0	0	0.0	0	na	0	na
WAX	22	13	59.1	8	61.5	3	37.5	1	33.3
WBS	20	10	50.0	5	50.0	5	100.0	3	60.0
Total	272	136	68	34	17

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Friday, October 11, 2024 - 04:28 pm: Edit

I think that's right? Not sure on the last line.