New Compact Fleet Battle Tournament Topic

By Geoffrey Clark (Spartan) on Wednesday, May 21, 2025 - 11:12 pm: Edit

Thanks for the topic, Paul!

By Geoffrey Clark (Spartan) on Friday, May 23, 2025 - 07:22 am: Edit

Hello potential players,

As discussed in the 500-BPV Fleet Battle topic, this is the rules draft for the "Compact" fork.

The main differences are:
* Standard Tournament Map, 42x30 with barrier.
* Debate about the use of EW ...
-> Full, ECM drones/ECP plasma, EM, etc.
-> Partial, some limits, TBD
-> "None" like Module T tournament
* Fixed Forces, to be developed, basically:
-> One size class 3 ship with move cost less than 1
-> Two size class 4 ships, different sizes by empire to roughly balance the forces.

The goal is to finalize these rules, and get players to signup by the end of September.

If you are interested to play, or contribute, please read the rules at the following link:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/15WzTSGJj7d2Btf1mzxUSYli6TTyG0bCd/view?usp=sharing

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Monday, May 26, 2025 - 12:27 pm: Edit

I had mentioned in a different thread that it would be welcome to one day see the Paravians and Carnivons from Module C6 be made available for these kind of "squadron" tournaments.

For what (little) it's worth, I wonder if this more compact venue might be a good way to test the viability of such factions here, before considering opening either of the other two types of tournament for such "lost empires" later on.

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Also, I might suggest offering two sub-options, in terms of YIS dates, for this scale of play.

One being set somewhere in or around Y180, for those who wish to run "late-war" squadrons of fully refitted ships;

And two being one set in or around Y150, for players who might wish to take part in a "Middle Years" tournament instead.

For the sake of the latter, I might suggest allowing Romulan players to use the relevant "Shadow of the Eagle" ships from Module R4J - and, if one were to permit the Paravians to take part, assume that the ISC are themselves using a "Mapsheet P" force in turn.

For one thing, even if "full" EW was to be permitted here, a Middle Years version would still be de facto more streamlined by comparison, since many of the later technologies had yet to be invented by then.

So, if some player groups want to go with the latest and greatest Alpha Octant-wise, well and good. But, if other groups would rather dial things back a little timeline-wise, there'd be pre-set options on the table for them also.

By Geoffrey Clark (Spartan) on Tuesday, May 27, 2025 - 08:27 am: Edit

This is all a matter of demand, which players know the rules enough to include them in competitive tournament play?

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Wednesday, May 28, 2025 - 02:59 pm: Edit

For what it's worth, neither Module C6 empire has much in the way of "new" rules required to operate.

Would-be Paravian players (and opponents) have only one distinct weapon, the quantum wave torpedo (FQ1.0) to learn; it's a relatively uncomplicated seeking weapon rules-wise, at least when compared to "late-war" Alpha octant plasma torpedoes.

For the Carnivons, there are three distinct weapons: the disruptor cannon (E23.0), the heel nipper (E24.0), and the death bolt (FD20.0).

While I would certainly recommend taking a closer look at C6 someday, there are sample war cruiser SSDs for both "lost empires" in this free sample PDF.

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As for who might want to fly either of them here: I recall one person name-dropping the Paravians in the older thread.

I'll leave it to that person - or, indeed, to others reading this - to decide whether they think adding either or both of these factions to this setup would be a good idea or not...

By Geoffrey Clark (Spartan) on Thursday, May 29, 2025 - 08:22 am: Edit

Hi Gary,

I know you are a fan. Is there a reason why we don't even have playtest versions of Paravian and Carnivon cruisers for the Module T tournament?

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Thursday, May 29, 2025 - 09:39 am: Edit

Geoff,

Versions exist (possibly in SFBOL? I've certainly seen them, and people have played them); Paravian is mostly playable, IIRC, but kind of rough to make work due to the nature of the QWT (i.e. you can just ignore them and corner the thing on a closed map); the Carnivon are problematic, as Deathbolts+Heel Nipper often equals instant death, and it is hard to balance that out (both of those things were originally designed for Early Years ships, where everyone was slow and this was hard to arrange; in regular tech, they become a lot more of an issue).

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Thursday, May 29, 2025 - 02:25 pm: Edit

To follow up on the above reply:

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In the case of the Paravians, there are a few caveats.

Before Module C6 was published, there had been a prior attempt at a "modern" Paravian fleet, as seen in Stellar Shadows Volume #2 - otherwise known as Captain's Log #28.

However, in that version of things, the Paravians retained certain "pseudo-pirate" aspects of their Early Years ships. As in, they still had non-weapon option boxes, as well as the Turn Mode issues imposed by sufficient damage to their port and starboard warp engines.

When C6 was being worked up, however, the Paravians were assumed to have made a change to a more "standardized" armada of ships and mission variants. Thus, the NWO boxes were removed, as each variant was "locked in" to its respective role. Plus, this time around, it was assumed that the warp engine Turn Mode issues were solved for their "modern" fleet, so it no longer applies to them.

So, some of the oldest data posted to threads like this one might refer to the "pre-C6" take on things, rather than how a more "contemporary" TC based on the C6 Paravians would function.

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Further, one potential issue from an historical perspective is that the current range of products, such as C6 itself, do not provide a "line" or "command/leader' variant ship at or around the 150 BPV mark for them thus far.

There is the command cruiser, which with the APR refit installed costs 135 BPV; later on, the Paravian heavy battlecruiser clocks in at 180 BPV.

That said, I'm hoping that, one day, a would-be "Module C6R" might offer a new range of "Mapsheet P" Paravian ships - to include, perhaps, a would-be heavy command cruiser? - which might sit closer to the de facto 150 BPV TC mark points-wise.

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Most recently, a set of antiproton variants were provided for the Paravians of Omega in Captain's Log #54; these variants possess a powerful, albeit short-ranged, direct-fire output - albeit one which, for cruisers at least, is mostly locked into a front-facing "hex row of death".

Even so, it might one day be possible to offer a would-be antiproton variant Omega-Paravian TC, for use in an "all-Omega" tournament.

It would be best advised not to try and overrun one of those variants on a closed map, however...

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As for the Carnivons:

Their "modern" fleet, as offered in Module C6, is intended to hold its own against Kzinti and Lyran opposition - which, given the "historical" quirks of Carnivon technology, offers its ups and downs.

In terms of BPV ranges, there are various refits and death bolt speed upgrades which "historically" play important roles. For example: a Carnivon CA with the plus, Y175, and DERFACS refits, plus paying for speed-20 death bolts, costs 141 BPV; meanwhile, a Carnivon CC with those same add-ons costs 155 BPV.

That said, this kind of issue has been faced before. Consider how dialed-down the ISC tournament cruiser is compared to its fully refitted historical counterpart, for example.

Perhaps a similar dialing back - say, by reducing the number of heel nippers from two to one, or perhaps by limiting the number of "deck crew actions" which can be used to arm and launch a given death bolt at once - might be viable there?

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In any case, it is one thing to evaluate would-be TCs based on these "lost empires" in the "closed" tournament environment. It's another thing to consider how they might function in this proposed squadron tournament, particularly depending on how such things as electronic warfare are to be factored into the equation.

Once a better sense exists of what kind of "fixed" squadrons - and BPVs and EW options - for the current crop of permitted Alpha Octant empires begin to emerge, it might then be possible to try and consider how best to dial in a suitable set of offerings for these "lost empires" from C6 also.

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandar) on Thursday, May 29, 2025 - 07:07 pm: Edit

I have played Paravians in squadron strength. Each QWT hits like a PPD pulse. Losing power over range. They are killed more like an oversized drone. They arm like a DISR. To include overloads.

In a one-on-one battle. The other ship can run thru them and mug the paravian ship. Harder to do in a squadron action. They have phaser Is.

I like the way they play. Would love to do so in the format listed. Hopefully work and real life will give me more time.

•••• Kidney stone......

By Geoffrey Clark (Spartan) on Friday, May 30, 2025 - 07:32 am: Edit

Ohh, take care, hope you can recover.

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandar) on Friday, May 30, 2025 - 05:54 pm: Edit

Oh, it is a small one. It shall pass soon enough,