This can be moved but I was looking for the FXJ Penal Frigate. It would not be a new ship just curious if it was published?

By Stewart Frazier (Frazikar3) on Tuesday, June 24, 2025 - 06:28 pm: Edit

Currently there isn't one (officially), just the D5JX (R3.208) in Mod X1R. The question is if it's an FJX or an FWJX (maybe a special mission for the HFX) …

By Jeff Anderson (Jga) on Tuesday, June 24, 2025 - 09:39 pm: Edit

While I do consider the discussion of such a ship to be very worthwhile, I've also long been under the impression that during the time of first generation X-ships, there were still plenty of non-X ships out there.

From that, it really makes sense (to me, but I may well be totally off on this) that being assigned to an X-ship is the sort of assignment that would go to "The Best of the Best" from ANY Empire (Nation, Race, etcetera).

WOULD the Klingons make use of a Penal variant of a normally "Elite Ship" for unreliable officers/crew (or for those officers and crew who made mistakes, but were still considered redeemable) when there were still plenty of non-X Penal Ships for such people to redeem themselves aboard?

By Dal Downing (Rambler) on Wednesday, June 25, 2025 - 04:35 am: Edit

Would they yes, the D5JX is proof of this. I was simply wondering if the SSD was ever done.

By Mike West (Mjwest) on Wednesday, June 25, 2025 - 12:38 pm: Edit

Would this be based on the F5-X or the F5W-X? Or where there be one of each?

Anyway, I'll see what I can slap together and give it to SVC if he's interested.

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Wednesday, June 25, 2025 - 03:12 pm: Edit

Are these intended to be real ships or conjectural "Unbuilt Variants"? The text description in (R3.208) ADVANCED TECHNOLOGY PENAL LIGHT CRUISER (D5JX) suggests that, because X-ship crews were hand-picked to begin with, X-ships had a low percentage of troublemakers so there just wasn't a need for very many X-tech penal ships.

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Quote:

Due to the generally excellent nature of the crews assigned to advanced technology ships, this ship became something of a problem. The numbers of personnel who would normally be sent to a penal ship, being drawn from a much smaller personnel pool, were insufficient at first to properly man the ship. The result was that for most of the first decade of the ship’s operational life, more than half of all assigned crewmen were in fact sent to the ship as part of a normal rotation.

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By Stewart Frazier (Frazikar3) on Wednesday, June 25, 2025 - 09:00 pm: Edit

After the first D5JX was built, noting the crew selection process, one F5(W)JX may be looked at (to cover the SC4 J-class as anything smaller (E4JX anyone?) …

By Mike West (Mjwest) on Friday, June 27, 2025 - 07:39 pm: Edit

So ... there shouldn't be an F5(W)X because there isn't enough crew candidates to justify it ... ?

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Friday, June 27, 2025 - 09:42 pm: Edit

Well, not necessarily. I wouldn't think there would be enough crew to justify another X-tech penal ship early in the X-tech era. But as time went on and a higher and higher percentage of the Klingon fleet was composed of X-ships, you might someday reach a point where, even with the fact that X-ship crews had comparatively few troublemakers, the "candidate pool" was now large enough to justify another penal X-ship.

The above would seem to imply that the YIS for an F5JX would be substantially later than for the D5JX. The YIS for the latter is already established at Y184. So maybe the Klingons decide to supplement it with an F5JX in about, say, Y198?

By Dal Downing (Rambler) on Saturday, June 28, 2025 - 04:10 am: Edit

My thought is the opposite. I figure they would build a smaller FJX or F5JX first, because why waste a cruiser until you have a large enough pool of potential problem children to pull from.

Mike West mentioned a F5WJX. I don't believe the Klingons would use such a valuable hull when and F5J upgrade is cheaper and almost as powerful. Eventually maybe during the Android War they would decide to upgrade to a FWJX.

Stewart Frazier, as far as an EJX goes, I doubt the klingons would waste the money or the tech to build such a ship for the ISF. Eventually as Second Gen Tech start becoming available they would simply hand down a older used FJX. But who knows maybe they would convert an older E4X to A Penal Frigate just to rub in the ISF face they are not the DSF.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Saturday, June 28, 2025 - 08:20 am: Edit

If I may, there is an alternative view that could be a part of the puzzle.

You are looking at crew population, and that is appropriate, but not the full complement of a penal ship.

If an officer messes up enough to be appointed to such a command, the history has been published that success in battle is an accepted method of getting promoted out.

Look at it from an officers position, is survival and success in battle directly proportional to the size and power of the ship they are assigned to?

An ambitious (but out of favor) officer would be overjoyed to be assigned to a F5(W)X. It would be a promising and hopeful assignment.

Imagine the disappointment one would experience on finding the ship that he is assigned to is an ancient E4X.

Infact, that might even be a justification for converting a E3 escort. It would, of course, depend on just how badly the condemned officer prisoner screwed up…

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Saturday, June 28, 2025 - 01:59 pm: Edit

Dal Downing,

It seems to me there is a problem with your idea, though. It's already established, in Module X1R, that the D5JX appeared in Y184, and that for the first decade or so of its service, there weren't enough X-tech-trained troublemakers to fully crew it. The Y184 YIS means that there isn't room chronologically for an F5JX that was built a long time before. And for about a decade afterwards, there weren't enough troublemakers to justify two separate X-tech penal ships. Unless the backstory for the D5JX is changed, it seems to me to make more sense to introduce it at least 10 years after the D5JX.

By Stewart Frazier (Frazikar3) on Saturday, June 28, 2025 - 07:58 pm: Edit

Also note that the Klingons maintains a certain level of J-ships, both D and F. Building an FJX will happen, if for no other reason than an FDJ ship needs to be retired in the future …

By Dal Downing (Rambler) on Saturday, June 28, 2025 - 08:52 pm: Edit

Alan Trevor, we are forgetting that its not just the X Crews that would be assigned to A X Penal Ship. Any considered sufficient loyal DSF member regardless of his previous assignment could be assigned to an X Penal Ship.