How about a campaign where the LDR attempts to subvert the Lyran Empire, or at least one Duchy/County of it, during a lull in the general war or right afterwards before the Andro's crush them?

It could be a low level insurgency to a point but support could come from the Hydrans and the Kzinti (via passage through the WYN territory or by a WYN contingency that comes back out of the WYN in a manner similar to the Usurper but not as ambitious) with additional Orions as mercenaries on the LDR side.

It could have a Vietnam feel where the LDR suppports and promotes an uprising in an adjacent county within the Enemy's Blood Duchy but denies any involvement in the "uprising". It could even have a Tet style offensive where the LDR actually come unmasked because they "loan" units to the "rebels" in an attempt to complete a major section of the subversion.

Follow that with pressure on the Kzinti front, possibly timed to distract major fleet units from repsonding, and perhaps the Imperial player might have to concede said territory if certain conditions are met.

Some possible campaign outcomes might be:
1. Early Destruction of the LDR.
2. A second County joining the LDR... with or without a major civil war afterwards.
3. The complete subversion of the Enemy's Blood Duchy into a mega-LDR.
4. A stalemate where the subversion fails but no action is mounted against the LDR.
5. Withdrawal of Units from the general war or (if during or aftewrwards) weakening of border patrols that encourage a mjor incursion by Hydran and/or Kzinti forces.

By Scott Tenhoff (Scottt) on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 11:57 am: Edit

It's funny you should mention this, because over a year ago I wrote an F+E scenario of an LDR Civil War, and had been considering now to write a SFB campaign about the same thing.

But some things regarding my idea:
1) It would be set around Y150-160 (so no war class ships)
2) It was the Lyran's worse fear, that the Enemy Blood County was subverted already, and the LDR were making a push towards the throne.
3) The Hydrans were providing clandestine assistance, and actually had ships in LDR/EB space. About a dozen Max.
4) Some Lyran ships could/should actually mutiny (police mainly, but possibly SC-4??)
5) NVC would have to be used against bases. (Can't go destroying those BATS/BS!)

That was it so far, but one thing I had doubts on, was how exciting would Lyran vs Lyran battles be? "Oh well my ESG rams your ESG...."

By Douglass E. Howard (Doug_Howard) on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 12:42 pm: Edit

Actually the Lyran vs LDR might be kind of rare until late in the campaign.

It would most likely need a moderator as well.

I agree with #4.
#2 is included below.

I think late/post war would be best. If prior to the general war then the Empire might just squash it totally with ease or there may be a Klingon invasion (instead of attacking the Kzinti) when the fighting breaks out to "settle the area down". This also allows the forces "at home" to be reduced from the general war and possibly disillusioned with their leadership and feed into the mutiny thing below.

I was thinking of it more like there is a great deal of PSYOPS running and the "rebels" would be initially in captured/converted frieghters possibly with with a little help from the Hydrans and Orion Mercenarys.

The rebel objectives would be to capture small stuff first, like commercial platforms and outposts and mining colonies. Disrupting the economic output of the county. If the rebels are succesfull at creating a few safe havens the Lyran player has to hunt them down and since the problem is seen by the Empire as an internal thing for the county (pirate hunting on a massive scale) the county is left with it's own resources. This would involve small scale assaults with some freighters converted secretly to commando raiders and other armed freighters.

Once the insurrection has begun any Enemys Blood size class 4 ship or smaller, and any frieghter size owned by the Lyran side, that gets boarded may mutiny (and switch sides once only in the campaign, they won't go back for fear of prosecution) like a Klingon mutiny but without the benefit of security stations. This is to represent years of infiltrating and recruiting and subversive propoganda placements and the losses of the general war etc to have taken effect.

I'd also consider that some small units might be fully subverted at the beginning and only the LDR side knows this. How to do this might be tough. I was thinking of a dual track, each Lyran unit gets a random number from 1 to 6. The LDR has a random number track for each Lyran unit and if the numbers match then the LDR player can, at any time, declare that ship his and take control during that scenario. After each round the numbers should be changed to represent purges and shifting loyalties... but the ships that go over to the LDR side stay there (unless blown up/recaptured). The LDR player can only claim a non-involved (no scenario) unit by this method if he wins every single scenario in a given round (no draws).

If successful at surviving a round or two of assaults the non-detected and/or non-recaptured forces could build further on their gains and with/without help assault a base. NVC is not needed or used by the LDR side. The important thing is winning the battle, stuff can be fixed afterwards and a few well done miza volleys can disable a unit far faster than NVC with just as little or less of the damage NVC is setup for.

The Hydrans might have ships in support of this but NOT for any of the assaults as they wouldn't want to percieved as invading because that's something that might bring Lyran units in from other Duchys. They'd most likely do some border incursions/attack a BATS to draw away Enemys Blood forces while the LDR player attacks. They'd probably also have aforce to intercept a major incursion by another Duchy late in the campaign.

The WYN might have an interest in the matter of a less Imperial neighbor and support an Orion mercenary force built just to support the LDR. I was thinking maybe a PF tender and 2xLR, 1xCA with option mounts based out of the WYN. These ships would be Orion design without all the Orion special rules. Some actual Orions might take part as well. The crews could be Lyran refugee decendants and LDR.

By Scott Tenhoff (Scottt) on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 12:47 pm: Edit

So you are thinking something like a "U" series campaign where forces are just defined and the players make the battles (similar to Economy of Force??), instead of a "T" series campaign of a bunch of battles all tied together.

Is that right?

By Douglass E. Howard (Doug_Howard) on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 01:27 pm: Edit

There might also be an internment clause where rebel units who disengage in a certain direction are interened by the Hydrans or the LDR. If interned by the lDR the the LDR side can return them to action at the cost of revealing it's hand in the matter.

Some political stuff:
The Enemy's Blood Duchy ships or Rebel units who enter LDR space are interned.

The Empire will see it as an internal Duchy matter until:
The LDR attacks with it's own units or is revealed as running the operation.
The LDR may convert interned Lyran ships but may not deploy any interned unit without revealing it's role.
A captured WYN/Orion ship will reveal the hand of the LDR and WYN conpsiracy.

Once the LDR is revealed the Empire will send as many units to crush the rebellion as possible but can't send everything... The Empire would send in 1,000 BPV worth of ships to crush the rebellion. If that force is stalemated or defeated then the Empire abandons the rest of the Enemys Blood Duchy to dealing with the county insurrection.

Klingons:
The Klingons watched this whole thing closely. If the LDR is revealed before the 3rd round they will invade the LDR with one 750 point BPV squadron while sending a second 750 point BPV squadron to assist the Lyran player. After the 3rd round the Klingon empire bcomes involved on a roll of 4 or less on 2d6 and sends 1,000 BPV of units to support one side or the other and bring a stop to the fighting. The die roll for who the Klingons side with is 1d6, 1-3 Lyran and 4-6 LDR. Shift the die roll by one in favor of the player who has won the last round prior to the Klingons intervention. If the round beofre the die roll was tied then the Klingons decide not to intervene and no further rolls are made for them. If the Klingon force suffers 500 BPV or more of casualties (not including fighters/PF unless the carrier/tender is also crippled/destroyed) then the Klingons withdraw and do not reenter the campaign.

Hydrans:
The Hydrans will allow rebel/LDR units to be "interned"/returned to the LDR and will impose an immediate economic penalty for the return of a Lyran unit. They'll send a 1,000 point BPV fleet ONCE to engage either the Klingons OR the Lyran Empire fleet if they intervene. The fleet will remain in the campaign until one of the following conditions are met: The LDR homeworld is captured by the opposing side OR the homeworld of the Enemy's Blood Duchy is captured OR the Campaign ends through a draw.

The campaign ends in a draw if: The LDR is not revealed as being behind the insurrection AND the Lyran player destroys/captures every single rebel unit. Capturing units other than the WYN/Orions does not count for revealing the LDR.

The campaign ends in an LDR victory if the Imperial Lyran fleet is activated and sent to crush the LDR but is defeated AND the LDR fails to have a successful attack into any non-captured territory at which point both sides agree to talk peace terms.
The campaign ends in an LDR victory if the entire Enemy's Blood duchy is captured and not retaken for one round.
The campaign ends in an LDR victory if the county insurrection is succesfull; ie the county is taken totally by Rebel forces and the Lyran player fails to retake any part of it in one round. This causes a coup to occur at the top of the Duchy and the Rebels are offered an armistace... of course this means theLDr will attempt to repeat the campaing in the next county later but that isn't known by the new Lyran leadership.
The campaign ends in a Lyran victory if the LDR is crushed and reintegrated into the empire.

By Douglass E. Howard (Doug_Howard) on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 01:31 pm: Edit

---

Quote:

So you are thinking something like a "U" series campaign where forces are just defined and the players make the battles (similar to Economy of Force??), instead of a "T" series campaign of a bunch of battles all tied together.

---

By Douglass E. Howard (Doug_Howard) on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 01:41 pm: Edit

The T series side might come out of playing the U type or it could be either...

By Scott Tenhoff (Scottt) on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 02:30 pm: Edit

So is this all "historical" or "conjectural"?

Because from F+E the Lyrans don't get much destroyed from the end of the General War. The Lyrans+Hydrans sign a cease-fire and stop fighting. The Lyran+Kzinti only fight through the Red Claw Duchy.

The entire Far Star (obviously) and Foremost Duchy's don't get touched really.

And remember the LDR have to survive until the Andromedon's cream them

By Douglass E. Howard (Doug_Howard) on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 09:39 pm: Edit

I'd say it could be either, with a heavy lean towards conjectural, and would depend on playing it out first to see how it goes.

Although the provinces themselves don't get touched much, if at all, during the general war the fleets have run through a cycle of casualties and replacement and the economy is strained very deeply afterwards. Couple that with not having acheived the objectives of the war and it's a situation ripe for strife and social change.

By Douglass E. Howard (Doug_Howard) on Saturday, June 14, 2003 - 06:43 pm: Edit

This might be off the wall but... What about a flowchart of scenarios coupled with spreading the forces over several contested areas?

By Scott Tenhoff (Scottt) on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 04:36 pm: Edit

So for the "minor" scenarios for this, for the LDR to establish a "foothole" or plant their subversives.

A basic scenario might be: Take 1 armed Freighter/Priorty Transport to the planet and deposit a "Prime Team" without being detected/inspected/etc.

The LDR with a freighter or Orion LR, the Lyran with a Police Ship.

Right?

I can't think of how else the LDR to get lots of 'subversives' out there. They can't use their ships certainly.

By Richard Wells (Rwwells) on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 05:48 pm: Edit

Scott: Other local Lyrans may be disgruntled with their Count or Duke and rise up upon rumors of LDR help. Other Lyran nobility may also having their spies take on a more actve role. The LDR got a lot of Lyran assisstance in forming; it might take the nobility some time to actively work together.

Consider things, this might be a fun multi-player campaign game if several Counts plus the LDR got their own sabotuers and got destabilize each other. The winner would increase in size the most.

By Scott Tenhoff (Scottt) on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 05:53 pm: Edit

Not to be rude or anything, (since i don't know if you are a RPG'er or not)

But this might sound like a more RPG'ish campaign then SFB.

Imagine the Players are the LDR team(s), and trying this espionage, spy, infiltration, delievery, etc missions. Heck you could have each player be a 'team leader', and rotate between leaders to do different missions.

It might be easier in a RPG then SFB campaign. Since there would be all this 'if-then-else' conditions.

Just an idea

By Douglass E. Howard (Doug_Howard) on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 07:09 pm: Edit

Yes, it would be excellent material for an RPG, like GURPS:PD maybe.

For the SFB side I was thinking that it would be more along the lines of "years of subvervise work" had been done already. Most of the subversives are already in place and move when the signal comes ala the Fifth Column concept.

How does this look for a start?

The Hidden Dagger Insurrection
Round one: Getting a Clawhold
Year 180 (or so)
Following the inconclusive General War civil unrest of various degrees broke out in various parts of the Lyran Empire. Some thought this was just rabblerousing caused by the failure of the Alliance to attain and hold it's objectives in the war. For the most part this was true except for in the Enemy's Blood Duchy where the southernmost county had been secretely subverted by the LDR for years. The LDR saw it as a time ripe for action and quietly put out the instructions for a mass rebellion...

Players:
2-6 (or more if you want), Lyran, Rebel Alliance.
Round One Forces:
Lyran:
1xCA, 1xCL 1xCWL, 2xCW, 2xDD, 2xFF, 2xPolice

Rebel:
In Sector 1 only:
500 points of attacking Hydrans and other forces

Distributed among remaining sectors:
3xlarge disruptor armed freighters, 6xsmall disruptor armed freighters, 3xLarge phaser armed freighters, 6 small phaser armed frieghters, 3xSmall troop transports, up to 250 points of Orion ships.

All Rebel Units are at WS-III. Roll for WS normally for Lyran units except for Sector One where all units are at WS-III.

Commanders options:
Standard, all units have available refits.

The Arena:
5 Sectors, played in order from 1 to 5. The Lyran player distributes his forces first, followed by the Rebel player. For sectors 2-5 the Lyran is responding to the attack and may enter from any map edge not closer than 30 hexes form the nearest Rebel unit (or in the furthest point possible if less than 30 hexes).

Sector 1
BATS, 1xPF Module Standard Flotilla of Bobcat PFs
A Lyran Bats is under attack by 500 points of Hydrans. If the BATS is destoyed the Lyran player automatically forfeits one sector to the Rebel player.
All units WS-III

Sector 2
Map is Asteroid field. In 2215 there is a commercial platform operated by the Lyran player with 5 phaser-2 defsats placed by Lyran player.

Sector 3
Class M planet in hex 2215. 1 ground based phaser 2 on each side and 5 phaser-2 defsats.

Sector 4
Gas giant with ring, one commercial platform and 5 Def Sats placed by Lyran player.

Sector 5
Small planetoid (essentially one moon) with an agro station and 2xmining stations with 5 phaser-2 defsats placed by Lyran player.

Objectives for Round One:
Lyran
Crush the rebellion... NOW!

Rebel
Capture 1 or more sectors not including sector 1.

If the Rebels fail to capture at least 1 sector the campaign ends as they are slaughtered ruthlessly.

Campaign special rules:
Each Lyran size class 4 ship is numbered. The Rebel player secretely rolls 2d6 for each and records the result on the back of the SSD for each ship every round. Then the Lyran player rolls 2d6 and writes it down next to the ships counter number. If the two numbers match the Rebel player may take control of that unit during any combat it is involved in during that round. This rule does not apply against units in Sector One combat.
If the Troop ships or any Orion ship is captured the LDR is revealed as being behind the attacks.

Scenario special rules for round one:
If the Rebel player gets a numerical edge in any boarding/ground combat one of two things occurs:
For a non-ship combat the Rebel rolls 1d6 each turn until the scenario ends or the numerical edge is lost. If the number rolled is less than the turn number then the Lyran surrenders that unit and it becomes a nuetral prize awaiting the outcome of any other remaining combat.
If the Rebel player gets a numerical advantage on a starship boarding then he rolls as for above. if the result is less than the turn number the number rolled defects to the Rebel side.

By Douglass E. Howard (Doug_Howard) on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 10:12 pm: Edit

Sector One:
The Hydran forces are not suicidally inclined... Their purpose is really to draw away forces from the infrastructure so the rebels can run amuck. Any Hydran ship that is either crippled or within 10% of being crippled will attempt to disengage from the Sector One battle no later than the following turn it reachs that status barring repairs.

Quagmire:
Forces sent to any particular sector remain in that sector for the entire round.

By Ian Whitchurch (Ian_Whitchurch) on Wednesday, December 15, 2004 - 04:17 pm: Edit

von Nasty,

Kindly review this threat, I mean thread.

In the interest of harmony and co-operation within the Lyran polity, would you like to help me in kick-starting this back up ?

Ian Whitchurch