Destroyer based PFT
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R16: JINDARIAN PROPOSALS:
Destroyer based PFT
Hi, all!
I was looking through the SSDs and saw that the Jindarians have their DV (R16.22); a DD hulled carrier that operates more fighters than their CVL (R16.15), a carrier based on their CL.
They also have their CLP (R16.16); a PFT based on their CL.
Those things suggest to me that it should be relatively easy for them to do a PFT based on their DD. Certainly the presence of the NWO boxes suggest it's not unreasonable.
Thoughts for conversion of the Canon DD (R16.20) might be to...
1. Remove LRGs C and D
2. Reduce the shuttle bay to four; two standard ADMIN and two PROS
3. Expand the TRAC to six
4. Permanently assign the eight NWO boxes as REPAIR
5. And replace LRGs A and B with Special Sensors.
This will keep the box count equal to the original hull but make the ship a dedicated PFT. What do you all think?
Per Module R11, most - if not quite all - destroyer-sized PF tenders in the Alpha Octant are "light" PFTs. As in, they can carry no more than three PFs at a time.
While the definitive answer would be at ADB's discretion, I would sooner guess that the Jindarians of Alpha are in this same category, so far as their "metal-hull" ships are concerned. As in, any PFT conversion of the DD base hull would have the same three-PF limitation.
That said, it is quite possible that the Jindarians of Alpha might be able to deploy PFT variants of their Size Class 3 "metal-hull" ships, which do have room for 6 PFs at a time. Exactly which one would depend on which Caravan saw a need for such a dedicated variant, and for what purpose.
Although, since there is an extant SSD for a heavy war destroyer - though not, at this time pf printing, an X1-ship iteration of this design - a PFT configuration of this hull perhaps suits certain Caravans' needs instead.
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I say Jindarians in Alpha, since those in the LMC or in Omega are in separate categories.
In the LMC, the local Jindarians are stated to have never deployed PFs - not even after Operation Unity.
In Omega, it's possible that the locals - to include those grouped together in the Freehold - would eventually acquire "volatile warp" gunboat technology. At which point, there'd be an open question as to how the Omega-Jindarians would design and operate a "volatile warp" PF, as opposed to the "hot warp" PFs used by their Alpha counterparts.
Gary Carney:
It would probably be best if you checked the SSDs before making a broad statement that is observably in error. You might check the Kzinti PFT, based on old destroyer hull, or the Romulan SkyHawk-C, or the Gorn PFT or BDP, there are others.
SPP:
In Module R11, the Federation light attack carrier (R2.140) can carry 3 F-111s on its semi-external fighter bay mech links.
I don't recall of a PF tender iteration of this design has been printed to date. However, given the precedents seen with other F-111 carriers, I would expect the same number of PFs to be fielded from such an iteration.
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Also in R11 are the Klingon FWP (R2.157); the Kzinti DWP (R5.108); the Gorn PTD (R6.95); the Orion DWP (R8.55); the Hydran FDW (R9.117); the Lyran Alleycat-P (R11.91); the ISC DDP (R13.86); the LDR MPP (R14.47); the Seltorian DDP (R15.38); and the Vudar DWP (R17.38).
In each of the above samples, these ships have room for 3 PFs as standard. Those assigned to "special missions" can use an internal repair bay to carry a fourth PF.
As to why these internal bays exist?
In many cases, the external mech-links on these hulls are not repair-capable. Or rather, the concept of an "external" mech-link having any kind of repair capacity had not yet been refined when some of these hulls were first entering service - leading to the added effort of installing an internal bay as somewhere to repair one PF at a time.
Eventually, repair-capable external mech links were brought into being. Which did not benefit most of the above designs directly, though it did allow for larger and more capable PFTs to enter service.
Still, even then, that internal bay found another use, as the operating empires leveraged it for light PFTs being sent on special missions.
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Similar designs exist for the "lost empires" of Module C6, as the Paravian DWP (R18.42) and the Carnivon DWP (R19.42).
However, in both cases, these empires (would have) lean(ed) closer to the example of the Romulan SkyHawk-C, in terms of being able to field "full" flotillas of 6 PFs.
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SSD and R-section data aside, there is an historical perspective on light PF tenders on page 16 of R11, which addresses this topic in greater detail.
For example: it's suggested that, for some of the very earliest "prototype" ships of this class, the internal repair bay can be deleted - as even that concept was not immediately thought of in some cases.
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So, there would appear to be sample cases in either direction: one in which the Jindarians of Alpha get to deploy a full flotilla here; and another where they get the same "3+1" setup as seen in Module R11.
I would personally lean towards the latter option. But if ADB deems the former option to be viable here, well and good.
Gary Carney:
The Ships I named are all destroyers and carry full flotillas of PFs and can repair them. The Kinti has two internal bays for the purpose. The Gorns carry the PFs on their wings. The Lyran (not mentioned above) has two winglets added to carry its PFs and can repair the two innermost PFs. There is no rule that prevents the Jindarians from converting their destroyer into a PFT.
To the Planet Delta Fria flew a cutter one fine day
Didn’t signal to the station, didn't have too much to say
No one dared to ask his business, no one dared to make a quip
The Federation cutter had a gunboat on his ship
gunboat on his ship
… It was early in the morning when he flew right past the moon
He came flying out of orbit, he arrived there much too soon.
"That's a Federation cutter", came a whisper from each lip
And the mech-link on his belly holds a gunboat on his ship
gunboat on his ship
… on this planet lived an pirate who was named Orion Red
Many cops had tried to take him and that many cops were dead
He was vicious and a killer, though a youth of twenty four
And the notches on his drone racks numbered one and nineteen more
One and nineteen more
… Now the cutter started turning, made it plain to folks around
Had a Federation warrant, wouldn't be too long in bound
He came here to take a pirate back alive or maybe dead
And he said he didn't care he was after Orion Red
For Orion Red
… Wasn't long before this story had reached Orion Red
But the pirate didn't worry, cops that tried before were dead
Twenty cops had tried to take him, twenty cops had made a slip
Twenty-one would be the cutter with the gunboat on his ship
gunboat on his ship.
Now the hours passed so quickly that the clock did seem to race
It was twenty past eleven when Red flew up into space
Folks were watchin' from the scanners, Everybody held their breath
They knew this cocky marshal was about to meet his death
About to meet his death.
… There was drone range in between them
When they turned to make their play
And the fierceness of the cutter is still talked about today
Orion Red had launched a shuttle when a photon quickly ripped
And the cutter’s hidden power was the gunboat on his ship
gunboat on his ship
… It was over in a moment and the folks had gathered 'round
There before them lay the wreckage of the pirate on the ground
Oh, he might have went on stealing' but he made one fatal slip
When he tried to fight the cutter with the gunboat on his ship
gunboat on his ship
… gunboat, gunboat
When he tried to fight the cutter with the gunboat on his ship
gunboat on his ship
Thank you for that Steve Thank YOU
SVC, it appears you have another reference to Big Iron.
Great song. 
Gary? One other thing to mention. I did bring up the DV (R16.22) because, as I mentioned with the proposal, it has a full squadron of twelve fighters, not the reduced squadron of eight that most DWV possess.
Also, the DV is based on the baseline DD hull (R16.20), not the more powerful, more combat capable DW (R16.21).
The Patrol Tenders you brought up (which, by the way, are some of my favorite ships) are almost, if not all based on their respective empire's DWs, not "Pre-War" type DDs (however, the two main Plasma Using Races are weird).
Specifically, the Jindarian DD has its NWO boxes; indications that there's a great deal of "Extra" space aboard the ships. It's this space that I thought might be... Filled out... With the repair shops and extra stuff needed to operate a full flotilla.
But I do understand your reasoning and, like I said, I really LIKE the Patrol Tenders, too; sometimes a full flotilla of gunboats can be too... Administrative... And just not as much fun as a half flotilla.
We now have an official scenario where the Feds have a gunboat.
Quote:We now have an official scenario where the Feds have a gunboat.
We do? I must have missed that. Where can I find this scenario?
Alan, I think Eddie is referring to SVC 4:59 pm post yesterday that concerned a Federation Police Cutter with a gunboat.
IIRC, in the "Alternate History" where the Darwin didn't report the RTN, the Andromedans overran things enough to where the Federation felt forced to start using Gunboats.
We also have rules for the Federation NOT using the "Third Way;" using Gunboats (like everyone else) instead of the SuperFighters, just in case someone wished to use those CONJECTURAL units for their player generated campaigns.
I can imagine the Federation (or whatever they're called) from the Universe where the Violent Vulcans shaped the Federation (Module R4J) would use Gunboats as well.
Yes Alan I was refering to steves version of Big Iron, A cutter with a gunboat on his ship. Is it history or legend, as was said in The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance, "When the legend becomes history print the legend"
Getting back to the subject at hand, a Jindarian DD hulled PFT, it's my understanding that the Jindarians do, on occasion, have a small flotilla of metal hulled ships fly to other sections of an asteroid field to do some prospecting.
Imagine a metal hulled Destroyer/PFT, loaded up with either prospecting or survey boats, flying into a potentially exploitable star system, and doing the work of five or six Prospecting Destroyers or Frigates in ascertaining whether it's worth it or not for the caravan to go there...
Understood. The reference to "an official scenario" was facetious.
At least I don't have to completely revise my understanding of SFU history...
Quote:I don't recall of a PF tender iteration of this design has been printed to date. However, given the precedents seen with other F-111 carriers, I would expect the same number of PFs to be fielded from such an iteration.
For the record, this ship does exist. It is the Federation DPF, published in Hailing Frequencies #214. It was published in a four-ship PDF pack that also includes the BCSA, DCSA, and GPX.
Thanks for the clarification.
Although, since I somehow failed to register the posting of this upload when it happened, it's only now I see that an SSD for the GPX has actually been created. So, it's a belated hooray in that regard!
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To go back to the Alpha-Jindarians:
Perhaps one could split the difference here?
As in: to indeed grant the "peacetime" DD a PF tender conversion with a "full" flotilla of 6 PFs (as on the SkyHawk-C), but to limit a would-be DW-based PFT to the same "3+1" setup seen on such units as the Federation DPF.
Certain Caravians might lean towards one type over the other. Or the inherent flotilla limits of a would-be "DWP" possibly led the "DDP" to win out, design-wise.