In the historical timeline, as well as in the "Carnivon Empire" timeline presented in Module C6, the WYNs as a faction emerged in more or less the same way: with the Usurper fleeing a Kzinti civil war; with the WYNs emerging as a pocket star-nation, with perhaps a plurality of Kzintis to be counted as part of its varied population; and with the grandson of the original Usurper posed to launch the War of Return after the end of the General War.

Although, in the case of the "Mapsheet C1" timeline, one could picture a number of "WYN-Carnivon" hulls - plus a fourth "border" fleet - being part of the WYN Order of Battle.

Alternatively, the "Cluster Carnivon" timeline also provided in C6 pre-empts the Usurper entirely, by establishing two defeated Hordes' worth of Carnivon exiles inside the Cluster instead. Which later leads to a major campaign against the Coalition in the midst of the General War.

Here, however, I wanted to speculate on two (or more) alternate options, both based on "Mapsheet C1": one where the Usurper is a Lyran, rather than a Kzinti; and another where the Usurper is, instead, a Carnivon.

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In the case of a would-be Lyran Usurper, I suppose one could use wither the historical map or "Mapsheet C1".

In terms of who this Usurper might be, I have two possible thoughts:

The first would be to echo the historical Usurper War. As in, to say that the Foremost Duke of the era decided to try and overthrow the reigning King-Emperor. The loser would flee to the Cluster, expecting to die, and be surprised that he survived. Later on, the heir of this Usurper would perhaps join the Red Claw Duke in order to launch a Lyran War of Return.

The second would be to change "Usurper" to "Usurpers" - as in, the conflict would not be a feudal one, but rather a revolutionary one, akin to what happened in the Dark Star County historically. While the rebels here would not quite manage to overthrow the Lyran feudal system as hoped, the survivors would, upon finding themselves still alive in the midst of a hollow WYN Cluster, seek to undertake their new political experiment here instead. In this case, any would-be War of Return might only happen if they and the LDR succeed in "exporting revolution" to Foremost Duchy beforehand.

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In either case, the main changes to the WYNs would be both in demographic terms (with a plurality of Lyrans, rather than of Kzintis) and in certain technology types.

Particularly in regard to the "fish" ships. I could see them swapping out the "standard" drone racks with ESGs (and, thus, having no drone ship variants); limiting the option mounts to phaser-1s; replacing the "standard" Kzinti fighters with Klingon types (possibly with RALADs in place of drones); and replacing the drone racks on WYN INTs and PFs with phaser-3s.

Or, if one wanted to make the "revolutionary" option more interesting: perhaps they get a larger supply of gatling phasers from their "fellow travellers" in the LDR, and are thus able to swap in either phaser-1s or phaser-Gs in their "fish ship" option mounts?

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In the case of the Carnivons, one need only to find a single Horde warlord to stand in opposition to the efforts by Greycoat Lothbog to unite all Hordes into a single political entity. Or, perhaps, for said warlord to attempt to seize the title of "Gookwar" for himself.

The loser would flee to the Cluster, but only in the same numbers as the historical Kzinti Usurper - not anything near the levels seen in the "Cluster Carnivon" timeline. As a result, WYN society would emerge in parallel to the historical one, albeit with a plurality of Carnivons in its population.

Given the truncated borders of the Carnivon Empire on Mapsheet C1, and the pressing need to keep tabs on the Kzinti and Lyran borders, a Carnivon War of Return might see the Wolf and Jackal fleets declare neutrality. In which case, perhaps the "off-map" Coyote fleet would instead align with the Carnivon Usurper against the forces of the Home Fleet.

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In technological terms, this timeline would require more significant adjustments to the WYN Navy.

For one thing, the "fish ships" here would likely replace their disruptor bolts with disruptor cannons.

Notably, unlike the case with heel nippers, the rules in C6 note that it was not a technological barrier which prevented other "modern" empires from using death bolts, but rather an operational one: as in, only the Carnivons bothered to put up with the added hassle needed to operate death bolt racks.

So, in the case of a Carnivon Usurper, I could well see the "fish ships" replacing drone racks with death bolt racks, to include adding one deck crew per rack (as seen on DB-armed Carnivon ships). However, while this would open the door to death bolt equivalents of drone variant ships, I'm not sure if it would be wise to allow them to install more DB racks (plus more deck crews) in their "fish ship" option mounts, alongside the pre-existing phaser-1 or ADD rack options.

However, heel nippers operate under more strict technological constraints. So, I would suggest that only "native" Carnivon hulls can operate them, even in this timeline. In other words, there would be no HN mounts on any "fish ships".

In terms of attrition units, these WYNs would deploy Carnivon fighters from "fish ship" carriers. These WYNs would have some Carnivon INTs; INTs sourced from other empires, plus WYN PFs, would replace their disruptor bolts with disruptor cannons, and their drone racks with either ADD racks or phaser-3s.

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Of the two, I might find the potential tactical dynamic offered by Carnivon-coded "fish ship" designs to be more distinct than that of Lyran-coded types, not least with the need to account for death bolt and disruptor cannon usage.

Although, in strategic terms, there might be more room to manoeuvre at an F&E scale for a Lyran War of Return, as opposed to a Carnivon one.

So, does anyone here think that any of the above "Usurper" options seem to be of interest - or do you have any alternatives of your own you think might be worth considering someday?

By A David Merritt (Adm) on Sunday, August 23, 2026 - 01:59 pm: Edit

If there is a second Lyran revolt that are "fellow travelers" with the LDR then the LDR would be conquered before there was a third, after the apparent destruction of the second revolt.

The only reason the LDR was tolerated was conquering it would have been politically difficult, and it was a useful place to talk indirectly to the Hydrans. If there was a second revolt, those that thought leaving the LDR in place was a bad precedent would be proved correct. Either the Emperor would order the LDR destroyed, or his immediate successor would.

Now if the WYN/Lyrans were fascist proxies so that when the coming War of Return starts the LDR and WYN are would be in a fight to the death. Make it a three sided war.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Sunday, August 23, 2026 - 02:37 pm: Edit

In order for the WYNs to develop in at least some form of recognizable manner, their founding inside the Cluster would have to be some time during the Early Years: either in place of the historical Kzinti Usurper War, or perhaps some time sooner.

Whether or not the Lyrans would learn of the escapees' continued existence before, during, or after the formation of the Democratic Dark Star County is another matter.

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Historically, the Kzinti Usurper presided over a different form of government "domestically" while still pursuing a "feudal" role for himself in the Hegemony proper.

Presumably, a "feudal" Lyran Usurper would do the same, in terms of wanting to keep the existing Royal-Imperial structure in place (albeit with himself as the new King-Emperor), and thus leaving the "post-Usurper" WYNs to their own devices.

So, in a "feudal" War of Return, more closely mirroring the historical one, there would be every reason for the LDR to sit out such a conflict - and reasons enough for both sides of the conflict not to involve them.

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In the case of a "revolutionary" set of Usurpers, it would be possible that the King-Emperor intervenes to seize control of the DDSC directly, before it got to the point of becoming the LDR.

In which case, Dark Star would be just another county - albeit one aligned with the Homeworld province directly, rather than with either the Foremost or Enemy's Blood Duchies.

As a result, there would either be no War of Return at all (if the Lyran nobility succeeds in asserting their continued rule outside of the "WYN Democratic Republic"); or one in which the WYNs intervene on behalf of a successful revolt within "on-map" Lyran space (if they don't).

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Beyond this: personally-speaking, I would not be in favour of adding a new Lyran faction that pursued an even more oppressive policy towards its own subjects than the various feudal lords do at present.

Or which, it must be said, the late-period LDR risked sliding towards, in the last years prior to the Andromedan conquest.

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But, if you wanted a multi-sided campaign:

What if a "revolutionary" War of Return was triggered by a successful revolt in the Homeworld province itself? Or perhaps both in Homeworld and in parts of Foremost Duchy?

In which case, the remaining Dukes would be in the place of the various "White" factions of the Russian Civil War: nominally aligned against the revolutionaries, yet sharply divided on exactly who the new King-Emperor should be...

By Jeff Anderson (Jga) on Monday, August 24, 2026 - 04:32 pm: Edit

Alternate Usurpers? I like!

For grins and giggles, imagine them also flying alongside Peladine ships, should there have ever been a Peladine task force that, in a desperate bid to avoid capture, also have plunged into the WYN Radiation Zone...

(Maybe it's just me, but I do see an aesthetic similarity between the WYN Fish Ships and the Peladine..._

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Monday, August 24, 2026 - 10:52 pm: Edit

In most cases, it's probably too late for any full-sized Peladine ships to exist in such a timeline - barring an earlier inflection point on the Peladine home world itself, perhaps.

That said, in any timeline where the Lyrans do not form a Coalition with the Klingons, it could be interesting to see the Empire - or, perhaps, a "revolutionary" Lyran faction - "encourage" the Ranel and Phelen to build the Peladine drone fighter designs from Module E4 on their behalf; and/or to "licence" these designs to other production sites across Lyran space. (Perhaps with RALADs in place of drones, in this instance.)

Although, in timelines where the Lyrans and Hydrans are on good terms, there might be the potential of seeing the former acquire "blueprints" for the Borak superiority fighters from Module E3 instead...

By Lawrence Bergen (Lar) on Tuesday, August 25, 2026 - 08:01 pm: Edit

Well you do have two sets of colored markers in Civil Wars so that you could play with the idea of a Lyran War of return scenario.
I suppose you could even use the Rom pink (or red) Kestral hulls as WYN based Usurper Klingons.

Either way it would be fun to play with. Maybe a Captains log scenario.

Joe and I bandied this around a few years back but it wasnt in the cards or timeline for this product

By Jeff Anderson (Jga) on Wednesday, August 26, 2026 - 05:10 pm: Edit

LDR counters?