This is a concept which popped up in the midst of a Lyran/LDR discussion elsewhere on the BBS. However, it's something I wanted to give a bit more thought to here, in case anyone was interested in either concept.

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In Star Fleet Battles Module R9, the Lyran Democratic Republic has two "four-engine" designs of particular note to this discussion.

One, the Fleet Destroyer (R14.45), is a "big centre hull" upgrade from the Alleycat war destroyer, with four 6-box warp engines. While not a modular design in and of itself, two of these FDDs were historically converted into "true" HDWs.

The other, the Fleet Police ship (R14.44), is a "big centre hull" upgrade from the Military Police ship, with two 5-box warp engines (on the Manx police ship "side" hulls) and two 6-box warp nacelles on the centre hull. Historically, two or three MPs were converted into FPs.

While the FDD is listed as a Size Class 3 hull - which, oddly enough, means it "shrinks" to Size Class 4 when converted into an HDW - the FP is listed as a Size Class 4 unit.

Or perhaps the current Size Class listing for the FDD is an errata issue? As in, it's supposed to be Size Class 4 instead?

No "mission variants" of the above hulls have been offered to date, unless you count the conversion of an FDD into an HDW as such.

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So, the question I wanted to ask was this:

Are there any other Alpha Octant powers who could, or indeed would, develop equivalent (non-modular) "fleet destroyer" and/or "fleet police ship" variants of their own?

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The first instance might be to look at the Lyran Empire.

Much as the Lyran military is divided up along feudal lines, my understanding is that the same is so for its police forces. So, any police ships in service of the Homeworld county would be separate from those in Far Stars service, and so forth.

In which case, I could see each province's police forces wanting to leverage the relatively limited number of police hulls they each have on hand - and, thus, looking quite favourably on the fleet police ship template.

In the case of a Lyran Empire fleet destroyer, one advantage there might be the absence of a need to wait for HDW production, which is limited in Federation and Empire terms.

Or, to put it another way: just as the LDR itself used the FDD as a stepping stone towards the HDW, so too could certain Counties do the same, while waiting for the Empire's HDW production schedule to get around to them.

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But what about elsewhere in the Alpha Octant?

In the case of the ISC, perhaps the case of the heavy war cruiser in Module R12 could be instructive here.

Unlike the ISC CW from Module R9, which was able to install three destroyer engines "beneath" the Z-axis of the main hull, the HCW had to install a pair of frigate engines "above" the Z-axis. Doing this meant that the 360* phasers on the CW had their weapon arcs reduced to FX.

So, I would suggest that any would-be fleet destroyer or fleet police ship hulls in ISC service face the same obligation: as in, the second pair of engines go "above", reducing any 360* phaser arcs to FX in turn.

Historically, such ships would only start to emerge from the ISC fleet yards during the panic caused by the Andromedan invasion. Although, they might show up earlier in any "Mapsheet P" timelines, due to ongoing pressure from the Romulans and "lost empire" Paravians.

At present, there is no modular heavy war destroyer hull for the proposed FDD to evolve into: the current ISC HDD is based on the "peacetime" destroyer. But, perhaps an alternate, DW-derived HDW design could be offered as an Andromedan War-era unit in a future ISC-themed SSD book?

As with other ISC ships, much would depend on what Size Class the resulting ships would be, in terms of the heavy weapon options that would be available to them.

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In the case of the Federation:

Even Star Fleet can only field so many HDWs at once, over in F&E. So they might find the prospect of a fleet destroyer to be a useful one, if only as an interim step.

The Federation Police might be quite interested in a four-engine fleet police hull. But, would it have the same 5-box warp engines as the current police frigate; or might they want to adopt the same 6-box frigate engines seen on the improved police cutter instead?

(I suppose one could account for this by providing a "warp refit" on the SSD.)

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In summary:

At present, the LDR has fleet destroyers, and fleet police ships, available in SSD form.

Which, if any, other Alpha Octant empires do you think might follow suit - or would you prefer this remain as something only the LDR would adopt?

By Jeff Anderson (Jga) on Saturday, September 05, 2026 - 02:45 pm: Edit

Because of the differences between the NCL and their NCA, I can see the Federation making use of the Fleet Destroyer; adding the small secondary hull and the benefits that they get from that.

Fleet Police? That seems more iffy.

Although unrelated, I am also of the opinion that, since the Federation don't use Gunboats, their adoption of the Fleet Destroyer can be BSed as "Compensation." That the Lyrans do as well... Well, as the originators of Gunboat technology, they should be allowed certain... Permissions...

By Stewart Frazier (Frazikar3) on Saturday, September 05, 2026 - 07:28 pm: Edit

Well, we know that the 'bulk' of the LDR ended in the WYN Cluster so they might have the blueprints for the FP/FDD (not to mention the PBC to base the FDD on), though the Lyrans might gain those blueprints when they retake the county (or someone takes the plans to them during the retreat) …

By A David Merritt (Adm) on Saturday, September 05, 2026 - 07:45 pm: Edit

Given that the LDR was over run by the Andromedans, I doubt that there was much left too find, particularly something kept under lock and key on military bases and government central facilities, the ship yards were most likely nuked.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Saturday, September 05, 2026 - 08:06 pm: Edit

A few more data points to add:

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In a sense, one could consider the Klingon F6 - and its Kestrel counterpart, the KFR - to be in the "fleet destroyer" category, more or less.

There are a few F6 variants in Captain's Log #31: the F6B, F6J, F6S, and F6E.

While the baseline F6, the F6J, and the KFR are subject to shock, the other known variants are not. (In the case of the F5B, this involves swapping out the "wing" disruptors for drone racks.)

I suppose it would not be unreasonable to imagine an "F6I" variant for use by the Internal Security Forces. No doubt such a variant would be closer to the F6B in terms of weaponry, so as to avoid shock effects.

To date, no variants have been provided for the KFR, though it might not be unreasonable to imagine the Romulans at least drawing such up for use in the simulators.

I wonder: would a variant which swapped the "wing" plasma-F launchers for plasma-D racks be enough to remove the risk of shock?

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Speaking of the Romulans:

One interesting side effect of a "heavy SkyHawk" could be that, even if it didn't have HDW modularity, it might still have Skyhawk modularity.

Or perhaps not.

For comparison's sake, a GryphonHawk retains the modularity of the SparrowHawk, whereas a FireHawk has to "hard-weld" its choice of modules to the hull.

In a similar vein, it could be that the Romulans had to similarly weld a given choice of SkyHawk module to a "heavy" (three-engine) hull. At least, as an interim step towards the later HDW design.

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Given that the Lyran Empire was already able to figure out how to build other "big centre hull" ships, such as the NCA and HDW, I would not put it past the capability of Lyran engineers to be able to figure out how the LDR managed to implement the FDD and FP designs - minus the gatling phasers, of course - even in the absence of blueprints for such.

Were they so minded to adopt such designs, that is.

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Also, I'm not aware of any data points reporting an appreciable number of LDR escapees making it as far as the WYN Cluster at the time of the Andromedan conquest.

Not least since getting there would involve passing through what, at that point in time, would be largely hostile (Andromedan-controlled) territory.

Although, I suppose it's possible that, at some point following the Lyran Empire's reconquest of the province, some of the survivors might have chosen to migrate to the Cluster, rather than face whatever form of government was to be established in the ruins of the Republic.

Hopefully, between F&E Andro War and SFB Module X2, we'll eventually have a better sense of what the "post-Andromedan" story of Demorak turns out to be...

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Saturday, September 05, 2026 - 09:36 pm: Edit

Another Star Fleet-related data point to note:

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Over in Federation Commander, a Ship Card for the HDW was provided in Communique #52.

By and large, FC does not incorporate modularity into a given Ship Card directly. Rather, each modular variant of note would appear as its own separate Ship Card instead.

Thus, the Ship Card in this file presents a "combat variant" HDW: with 4 Reactors (which, in SFB terms, would be the "default" AWRs); 4 R Hull boxes in the NWO boxes; plus a pair of drone racks in the RA option mounts.

What's more, FC does not include the two "casual" fighters: these are swapped out for two more admin shuttles. (I never liked the whole "casual" fighter thing for most HDW variants in SFB, personally-speaking.)

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So, if one was minded to place a would-be Federation "fleet destroyer" as a half-step between the DW and the HDW design-wise, perhaps this Ship Card could be leaned upon as a case study to perhaps consider.

To include there not being any "casual" fighters on the proposed fleet destroyer design.

Any thoughts?

By Stewart Frazier (Frazikar3) on Sunday, September 06, 2026 - 11:30 pm: Edit

The Romulan police line might be a normal SeaHawk minus the cloak (and/or detuned phasers), with a similar JayHawk functioning as the heavy (police ship), a P-module for the SkyHawk could do for the flagship functions (barracks, cargo, special sensor, shuttle) …

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Tuesday, September 08, 2026 - 10:50 am: Edit

In another thread, Chuck Strong said: Perhaps a Federation corvette (VT) with an added secondary hull added to become a fleet police ship (VFP): a similar concept as the FF to FFB.

I played around with the idea a little. Presumably, such a design would have a third engine, which then begs for a second Photon to burn up that extra power. And now you have something with the same weapons and power as the original Burke-class FFG frigate. Thoughts??


Garth L. Getgen

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Tuesday, September 08, 2026 - 11:56 am: Edit

Garth, I think we discussed this in the ship proposal topic for the flower class VT. Towards the end, there were several versions of the three engine VT if I recall correctly.

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Tuesday, September 08, 2026 - 10:33 pm: Edit

Jeff, I can't find that topic. Does it still exist??


Garth L. Getgen

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Wednesday, September 09, 2026 - 06:50 am: Edit

Yes, it does.

Just posted a line there. Hope it helps!