Personal Training Experiences
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Personal Training Experiences
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One of the most important aspects of teaching SFB properly, in my personal experience, is knowing how to play the game properly AND without having a rulebook open at all times.
I learned SFB in a vacuum. When I was in (I think it was 6th grade), I went to a Star Trek convention in Appleton, WI. I saw this really nifty looking game there, but they had sold out of what they called "Basic Set." I was disappointed, but equally delighted when I received the game at Christmas. (Actually, I had to return one purchase because the clerk accidentally sold my parents the thing ADB used to sell that only included the Basic Set, Advanced Missions, C1, and C2 rulebooks for those people who had previous (non-captain's) edition rulebooks.)
Because I learned the game on my own, I devolved into the style of "Speed 12, avoid shield damage, plunk away at the enemy." When I finally got some people interested in the game, this is how I taught them. Certainly, I didn't need to reference the rulebook every turn (which they liked, since they realized that this wasn't a game where you were constantly looking up rules... you only had to do that when you had a complex situation), but they found the game slow and uneventful.
Then I discovered SFBOL... and was SHOCKED at how people really played SFB. When I had heard "Speed is life" in the Basic Set rulebook, I thought they meant in the 12-15 range. I suddenly found out that those speeds meant one of two things: You were either about to be blown up, or you were still recovering from a weasel.
Hindsight being what it is, I wish I could go back and re-introduce people to the game. They're not that interested in it, although they have latched on to Star Fleet Command (the video game) and GURPS Prime Directive.
For anyone interested in teaching or learning the game, I'd definitely suggest Ken Burnside's articles about how to run demos. I would also consider using SFBOL once in a while, since the XP client supports non-tourney ships and it would be possible to set up the Cadet Scenarios. And your new victim could instantly be exposed to a variety of tactics from players from around the world!
-Francois
A drawback on the "teach them on SFBOL" method is that the skill delta between "SFB is a lifestyle choice" and the "I'm just getting started" player means that it can be very discouraging to learn on SFBOL.
We call this the three month wonder. Someone logs on to play on SFBOL and plays their brains out for three months, and generally feels like they're making no progress and give up.
Or, they play three months and you wonder where they went...
Point well taken. But it does provide a way for a new player to see a variety of tactics... especially useful for those players who would otherwise have a small playing group or have to learn in a vaccuum.
But I would agree with you about the burn-out. It's one of those "unintended sideeffects".
-Francois
I've been fairly lucky I suppose - I was self-taught to a point, and most of the people I've found who were interested taught themselves also.
There was a time back in college that a couple of us who were fairly new and knew only the basics started playing with some more experienced players - 1 guy in particular exemplified how NOT to teach new players - introduce a new rule by killing you with it ("well, its in the rulebook, why didnt you read them?" was his excuse). sure, once your players are up and running well and show a really keen interest, you might use this approach - but make sure they know you are opening the whole bag of tricks and they need to learn some on their own!
My first real attempt at teaching a couple of players was with Fed CA and Klink D7. had a big whiteboard and slowly went through energy allocation, SSDs (power, shields, and DF weapons only) movement, shooting, etc. The whiteboard helped by having energy costs for various actions, and certain reminders (only 1 imp power for movement, warp power to arm photons, etc). Did not explain overloads or drones on the first battle. Once the explanation was done, let them go at it - and was around to answer any questions they might have, and offer very basic tactical advice only when asked.
the only real complaint I got was that the two players did not feel they had any grasp on tactics - I told them that would come with time and practice and possibly reading various tactics articles in CapLogs.
One of the players has sinced moved to las vegas (and the bastard still owes me a ton of money...), and the other is still "semi-interested". I've offered to help her out, and have thought at this point of jumping back to the cadet ships to simplify things for her (she felt a bit overwhelmed by all the boxes on the full SSD).
I would not suggest SFBOL as a good way to learn for anyone unless they have a real thick skin and alot of patience! Perhaps more events ala Flying Dueces should be run to give the lesser skilled players a more competitive environment.
I guess one thing that I would add is when you are teaching someone, you have to send your "killer instinct" on vacation. Play to lose, or at least only to win by a narrow margin. Let your trainee/opponent take back exceptionally bone-headed moves “Um, do you really want to turn that down shield to me, rather than turning it away where I can’t shoot through it? I didn’t think so…*”
* actual excerpt from a comment made to me by the ace who taught me a lot about the game when I was the bone-headed newbie almost two decades ago... : )
That is the primary drawback of SFBOL -- very few people give mulligans there, and the ratio of sharks is higher than at the average SFB group.
One good scenario I remember from when i was learning. take the 3 novice players, each in their favorite tourney ship. All 3 of them against the experienced player in a tourney ship chosen by the 3 novices.
we actually did serious damage to him.
Alright. I can't remember the exact topic, and have looked, searched,and generally banged my head against the wall trying to find the original post, with no luck. Please, someone help me out.
A member of this board, sometime ago mentioned that they used photoshop to overlay the tournament (I think...) SSD's onto a starfield picture, then laminated them for reuse. I have tried, without sucess to get a decent looking end product.
Would whomever originally posted this topic email me at scoutdad13@bellsouth.net at their convenience???
Thanks in advance, Tony
Erm, I probably posted that, having a complete TC set. However I never made them myself so I'm not sure how to help. At a guess you'd have to make the background of the ssd 'transparent' and then overlay that on the image you wish to use.
John Lafayette of Seattle actually made them.
Try some photoshop newsgroups or help forums, I'm sure someone will probably be able to help?
Thanks, Jeff. I made the background transparent, but the problem is that the starfield backgrounds are so dark, its difficultto see the SSD's. So I inverted the SSD's to make them white lines on a dark background, but then you can't see when you've marked them for damage.
That's my dilema.
Have you tried white grease marker? That would probably solve the issue.
Or reverse the starfield....it may look strange but...
Sounds like you should try a different background image then. Or use coloured markers on the ssd. I havn't had that problem really with mine.
My son Jason (9) and I played a full game on Sunday - while I originally wanted to run the cadet ships, I decided to go with the full ships, but slightly rules light.
Jason took a D6 Cruiser vs. my Gorn DD.
We didn't use sideslips, shuttles, or transporters and bombs, and for simplicity, I gave him a full load of type IV drones.
He clearly had the advantage in power, and the game reached the foregone conclusion - but he left me impressed with his quick grasp of the rules, and math savvy on the EAF.
I definately underestimated him, next match I'll take about a 30% BPV difference - this time I was about half.
I didn't hold back - and managed to blow down his #3 shield, and score a few internals, but his drones kept my phasers tied up, and with him charging and firing disrupters nearly every turn, I was worn down quickly.
(I need to take a closer look at the D6, I like its power 'curve').
I remember well my introduction to SFB: a 3-way melee, I in a fed CA, Rick in a Romulan WE, and Scott in a Klingon D6.
We went straight to a full rules game, after some 15 minutes. The SSD's were JUST the ship and shields, and the Rules totalled 3 5x8's and 1 8x10, totalling only 1/2 inch thick.
I lost that first game, and beat Rick only by getting a 3:2 BPV advantage for that year. For three years, I knew only 5 SFB players: Rick, Scott, Mike, Mark, and Carl. I trained Mark, and none of us ever played Carl (until YEARS later), and I knew Carl knew several others. But in College, I found many other players (as well as began to run SFB tourneys by the Tournament Pack). The Early Cadet Training Pack is how I taught everyone past Mark the basics; they all became fair to fight faster than Mark (tho' Mark does out-skill them, and covets his Ace card).
One chap I've played with taught himself (at the age of 14) to play, using the SFB Cadet Training Module. He's won several local tourneys, and the oly reason He's not the ace is that Mark predicted what rich was goinng to do and had coutners for it, and he mispredicted what Mark was going to do.
One US Senator saw us playing in tournament (in a mall), and then picked up the CTM in the nearby game store.
but, since Graduation from college, I've not found many people willing to learn a game where the rules are so complex (and picayune).
Additionally, since 1998, when I last tried to run an SFB tourney at a gaming convention in Anchorage, I got 4 people; 2 of them were total novices (never heard of it before), and so, knowing that sanction was pointless, we ran a cadet tourney. While I'd never had HUGE tourney turnouts (34 being the best), I was used to at least 12 players, and had run 2 events a year since 1990. I found that all my SFB players had all fled to Warhammer (FB, 40k, Necromunda, or Space Hulk).
Since most of my SFB playing friends moved away, I essentially stopped playing; I had a couple friends who will play but only by cadet rules.
What was really interesting was that, in 8 years of running tournaments, I discovered that the big thing about tournament play is that it forces people to play the game as written. I know a few who don't. Heck, all the guys I know still playing are NOT playing SFB, but Variant-SFB (2X rules from Commander's Ed applied to all ships.)
Hmmm... I was self-taught from Basic Set.
I was a member of the local Car Wars club. We'd play every Sunday afternoon. I never won any of those games, but had a blast playing. One week, our Ace player had some of his SFB stuff with him, and when rules arguemtns broke out, he'd pick them up and start shuffling numbers around (like I've noticed veteran players often do...This ship is this much, and if I take CO's I can get this...). So I asked him about it.
He showed me the Fed CA, briefly explained how you filled out an EA each turn, and it had a Car Wars type impulse system, and that each of these boxes was one of the systems on the ship.
Then he said: "But you wouldn't like this game. It has too many rules."
Ok, I may have been a kid then (I was all of sixteen), but that statement did nothing to dissuade me. In fact, I had several games that "had a lot of rules" so I thought I could handle it. Besides, it was Star Trek after all!.
So I bought the Basic Set. Before I played a single game, I had bought Advanced Missions. I was hooked. Ironically, I never got the chance to play against that guy. He moved away not too long after.
I taught two 'newbies' how to play SFB last night. Both are experienced wargamers, and my usual wargaming partner (historical games) had played it once about 20 years ago. Given that the group he tried it with gave him the smallest ship in a fleet battle and didn't give him any tactical advice, his experience was rather short (all 5 enemy ships picked him as a target and blew him up early in the game).
Anyhow, we started the standard duel (Fed CA vs Klingon D7 - both unrefitted) with me as a 'referee'. For movement I included sideslips and HETs (soon to be known as 'the superturn' by the two of them). For weapons I covered overloads (and proximity photons), 'downfired phasers', and Type I vs Type IV drones. To make it easier I handled the 'reloads' for the Klingon (basically just told him his choice of a single Type IV or two Type Is when appropriate). We didn't cover batteries, tractors, transporters, or shuttles.
I started teaching the game at around 8:30 and they finished 5 turns by 11:30 after which the Fed CA had won. I didn't give them any real advice on Turn 1, and both plotted low speeds (6 and 10) with tons of reinforcement, leading to Range 30 weapons exchange (the Fed chose to start with 4 proximity photons) with no damage. They then picked up their speeds for the rest of the game but never got above 16 due to various weapons charging issues (due to taking long range phaser shots when the energy might have been better saved, and in one case the Klingon having 4 overloaded disruptors but only getting to range 9).
The Klingon actually did a pretty good job with his drones, and even got one to hit (a Type I). Both sides had crappy luck with their heavy weapons. I think the Klingon could have caused more damage as he was on the Fed's tail near the end of a turn after causing some good damage to the rear shield, but he feared a 'superturn' that would have him in range of overloaded photons at the start of the next turn, and so turned off. The Fed didn't have an HET planned and he would have had to take the Klingon's best shot first (but even 3 OL photons would have been scary).
Anyhow, they both enjoyed, and I'll be playing my regular wargaming partner again soon (he's more or less blocked off a year to learn it ;) ).
Well, I was delighted last night to have a chance to 'play' my first (serious, anyway) five-person SFB game! I say 'play' because it was a 2-person vs 2-person battle, and I was basically GM'ing, myself.
Scenario was a straightforward fleet dual, Y175 with two Fed NCLs vs two Klink D5s.
Two of the guys I'd had in probably 50% more games than the newer guys, so I set up on opposite sides. Two more experienced players/trainees opposing each other, each with a less experienced person. I'd trained them all one-on-one, and taught a number of duels (fought a few, too), so I thought I'd give each of the more experienced guys a chance to try to offer some of their own newly-learned tips and advice to their partner, as a squadron leader.
As expected, I had to correct very few mis-steps (nothing I'd consider an outright error at this point), and the game was lively.
[Funny story sidebar: We played this at a local pub* from after work...~5:45 to ~9:45. A bit before 9, a fairly well dressed - and quite attractive, really - woman walked up to us and started...
"I don't want to interrupt..."
(she walks a step closer and leans over the table a bit)
"...uhhh....whatever it is you're doing...but I thought you might be interested to know we will be starting 'speed dating' on the other side of the bar in a few minutes. If you are interested, the cost is $35, and we set up 5 minutes..." blahblahblah, she rambled on with her pitch for a bit. I've got a nice group of professional guys, so we were very polite, asked some questions and expressed mild interest out of courtesy, and she ultimately moved off.
Thing is...pub was REALLY not very busy at this time of night. It was probably 75% full around happy hour, but this never even began to encroach on the table we were using, and it was largely deserted by then aside from one or two pockets watching sports. Which made the 'speed dating' setup...awkward to watch! Best guess was that women outnumbered the men 2:1. A few times, as we passed on the way to the restroom, we'd see just two women engaging in small talk at a table. By the time we left, only 3 women remained chatting. I LOL'd a little inside - I mean, yeah, we are playing a boardgame at a pub. But, seriously, we are all fairly decent looking guys - not AWESOME or anything, but average or better, nowhere near overweight, well dressed and groomed, late 20s to early 30s, with good manners, very well paying and stable jobs, and friendly!
But the coordinator couldn't get past playing a boardgame - nearly stumbling over herself seeing that. Seriously. I can't fathom why she has a hard time getting more guys to attend her events. 
* The key to making this work, of course, is to respect the establishment. Always check with the waiter/waitress when being seated...few object offhand...and remember that it's a bar/pub/whatever...they expect to be patronized by people buying food and drink. So, by all means, BUY FOOD AND DRINK! It's a good thing SFB works so well with delicious Portland microbrews!]
ANYWAY, back to the game. It started out alright - the Klinks closed range a bit, but then turned off a LOT sharper than I would have expected without shooting. A bit disappointing of an opening, and I'd grumble to myself a few more times during the game that the Klinks were really doing a poor job with the whole "shooting every turn" thing. Not that they didn't power their disruptors - they DID - they just...didn't use them as much as they could have.
One of the gamers had played an earlier game in a Klink D6, and developed a wholly unreasonable fear of drones - at one point, turning his whole ship around to run away from a SINGLE Type-IM. After seeing the withering affect of ADDs in a follow-up game, though, I was refreshed to see everyone holding off on drone fire until their enemy's defenses had been worn down a bit more, or waiting for opportunity shots (or otherwise using them when it was REALLY desirable to tie up some power on the enemy ship).
One of the highlights of the game was when the Federation squadron commander launched a scatter-pack targeted on a Klingon D5, but with the drones set to 'random' targets of drone-size. He was closing rapidly to overload range, and knew full well that would spook the Klink into dropping HIS scatter-pack. Predictably, it did, and the ranges were worked out well enough that the Fed scatter-pack went 'live' before the Klink, but did not open until it got to a range when all the Klink drones had already flown off their scatter-pack.
The D5 and NCL kept closing, but the NCL fired the photons prematurely expecting the D5 to turn off. Bad idea. With full overloads, the D5 then bore down to range 1 and let him have it. Although the D5 had lost it's front shield, and took a LOT of internals, the Fed NCL had also lost it's front shield, and taken some (few) uncomfortable hits. The Klingon was feeling pretty good about himself, with his six drones about to hit (2 hexes), and maneuvering to put a full shield against the incoming scatter pack (which he was SURE was aimed at him). When both sets of drones moved at once...into the same hex...the look on everyone's face when ALL his drones were annihilated was priceless.
In any case, the second D5 was closing right behind the lead, and so although the lead D5 was largely gutted, the scatter pack from the second D5 into a down shield caused our stalwart Fed ship to explode SPECTACULARLY. Another ~17 internals on the lead, but everyone agreed it was worth it. That left an undamaged D5 with a full set of overloads ready, and another pretty beat up (but still better than 50% warp and 50% heavy weapons/phasers remaining) against the second Fed NCL.
At player insistence (quite a bloodthirsty lot!), we did another turn into this game, but it was pretty obvious the outcome I insisted was inevitable at this point was actually going to happen, and we called it. There was SOME debate as to whether he would have been able to get away if he ran - he could certainly have destroyed the one D5 if he put his mind to it - but the outcome was not in doubt.
You should have taken pictures. Pub Con, I love it.
too cool,
As a side note, 1 type IM drone from a kzin is a very scary thing for the klinks to face so was probably a a bad flash back that made him turn and run
:-)
Quote:too cool,
As a side note, 1 type IM drone from a kzin is a very scary thing for the klinks to face so was probably a a bad flash back that made him turn and run
For what it's worth, I'm GREATLY enjoying training technical people. I rarely have to explain a rule twice, and never three times. They "just get" so much of it, it's DELIGHTFUL.
Teaching them is fast, they really get into the games, and as new rules are introduced, they quickly pick up how they work and interact with other rules. It's crazy - one of the guys in my group has more than once asked if he can do things that are well-known tactics to experienced players...but not to him, he just learned the rules that allow an interaction he finds useful.
Indeed, they are even starting to buy SFB modules and rules, now, on their own. So far, nothing I don't already have, but you have to start somewhere!
It's been a great experience.
Well, my guys keep learning things!
Last night's game led to the conclusion:
'This is open space.' (IE., floating map) 'Why would I fight aggressively? We'll exchange weapons fire at range. If I come off worse for wear, I'll just fly away and repair it. If I come off better than you, YOU'LL do the same thing. We'll come back together once we both have shields repaired to full, et al, ad nauseum. Why are we even fighting at all? With no goal, I'm not going to do anything risky with the ship! It's a waste of resources...'
Sooo...yeah. They have independently discovered Kumerian's maxim. 'Never fight a battle you don't have to win.'
There are reasons to fight. One is to eliminate the other ship. Starships are things of great importance. Quite often when two cruisers meet they are the only ships within at least a few days of other ships, but perhaps only hours from various colonies and such. So, the two ships must fight. If one is damage, it must still work to damage the other enough to stop it from raiding the assets beyond. Neither can just leave the other free to raid. Maybe a destroyer is the only other opposition or a planets fighters. If you can damage the enemy enough that those other assets can handle the attack, then you've stopped the enemy from destroying those assets.
So you can't just take a few shield hits and disengage to repair. You must turn the enemy back. And if you can do that, you might have the chance to make some raids, so the enemy cannot just leave either.
The local space might be open but it's a close economy.
Loren has it right... Indeed, in the Cadet Training Handbook, the Constellation's motivation for sticking around and fighting off the Destruction (and vice versa) rather than saying "sod it" and going home for a ham sandwich is that both cruisers are there as a show of force, each trying to convince a neutral planet to sell a valuable resource to only the government it represents.