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MISTAKE #1: Why the hades are the D5X's closing? If they are not already in OL range, the first thing they do is break off their attack because they're not prepared to take on a parked opponent. It's not like he's going anywhere. He can kick to speed 15, but that's about it.

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Mistake #2: Why did the D5X's not use scatterpacks? You want to soften up the ship's drone defense with SP's and previous turn ship-launched drones before going in with this turn's drones and SP's. In fact...

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MISTAKE #3: If the D5X's going to attack anyway and especially if whoever gets hit will get away without internals, they'll split and hit either side of the CA. It can only keep the heavily reinforced shield pointed at one of them. The other ship might be able to breach a #3-5 shield. Now the D5X's can follow up with their drones and maybe a SS.

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By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Sunday, July 06, 2003 - 01:52 pm: Edit

They already made their prepairations...reread the post and you'll see that

I saw that. They telepathically knew the XCA was going to park. OK. Got it.


UMmmmm, house rule...no SPs, no WWs...

Nice save but no cigar. We're not proposing X2 to conform to house rules.

What an excellent idea..but the treat that Caps-to-SSReo of a full X2 cruiser plus BTTY of same would be able to completely anihilate on ship's volley caused the ships to go for one target shield.

...which Illustrates why Caps-to-SSReo gives excessive amounts of defense. But then the poll and following discussion made that obvious.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Sunday, July 06, 2003 - 11:22 pm: Edit

If we run our ATTACK RUN examples around every possible type of event it just gets too tough...it gets so confussing ( we don't have flow diagrams as part of this BBS programme ) that it journeies into the silly.


If we measure ships at R0 attack runs against parked opponets with T-bomb fields and WWs protecting the way in and everybody who's got a drone; flying an ECM drone, it'll get too hard to express and the results will be pretty meaningless.
Why have X2 ships that can move at speed 32 and change speed mid turn 8 times if we're only going to calculate ( undamaged ships ) parking at R0 of each other?

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...which Illustrates why Caps-to-SSReo gives excessive amounts of defense. But then the poll and following discussion made that obvious.

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By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Sunday, July 06, 2003 - 11:42 pm: Edit

You simply need to pose a reasonable scenario. Eliminating SP's and weasels (even if you remember SS's) isn't reasonable and the results you get are--perhaps not entirely worthless--but not the most illuminating either.

You have to do a little thinking to make sure you get usable results. Here's a little bit:

Staring conditions:

2x D5X vs. Fed XCA.

XCA parks. Doesn't matter if we assume it has E-decelled, hit a torunament barrier or that the D5X's saw it park and broke off attack so they could prepare. It is uninportant so long as we assume that they are coming in prepared for a parked target.

What are those parparations?

A reasonable speed to set would be something like 17-18, enough to outdistance a sudden XCA leap from 0 to 15, but not consuming too much power either. Assume OL disruptors, charged phaser caps, all racks have drones in them. Care to specify the drones?

Now set up previous turn(s) preparation. Assume an IMP 25 previous turn launch from all racks. that should draw a weasel or put a serious dent in the XCA's firepower.

Scatterpacks? If I want the XCA to weasel, I'd drop a seeking shuttle out there as a faux weasel.

We haven't even touched the XCA. Whose XCA? What's its armament? What special X2 technology does it have? Whose photon proposal does it use? Whose ASIF?

Once you set up a scenario that is detailed but not so detailed that you get lost in it you can play with it. Otherwise you get distracted by the unasnwered questions later.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 12:05 am: Edit

That level of detail would be listed...if I were to put up a playtest report...but the example nbattle run post was already to long to be readable at the level of detail it was at.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 03:23 pm: Edit

...then it's very easy to make assumptions that turn out wrong or miss an important bet.

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Sunday, August 17, 2003 - 12:03 am: Edit

How unbalancing would a dis-dev that allows a ship to displace one hex in any direction on any impulse be if it had a 3+3 warp arming cost?

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Sunday, August 17, 2003 - 12:59 am: Edit

It could have a dramatic effect on seeking weapons as it would be easy to force them to HET and allow you to bring rear firing weapons into arc.

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Sunday, August 17, 2003 - 09:28 am: Edit

You can't force a seeking weapon to HET, but I see your point. Still I wouldn't think that would make it unbalanced considering I can only do it once every two turns at a cost of 6 power.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Sunday, August 17, 2003 - 01:49 pm: Edit

Well, I suppose it would take some fancy maneuvering but if you could get them to be at R1 off your #2 or #6, you could Displace out of their FA arc and they would have to HET. I suppose to a degree the enemy controling the drones could remain aware of your Displacement ability and maneuver the drones so that it would be pretty hard to do that. Still, it could almost always be used to bring rear (or other) weapons to bare (or another shield). But then, that would be the point of the device, would'nt it?

By R. Brodie Nyboer (Radiocyborg) on Sunday, August 17, 2003 - 02:07 pm: Edit

What if drones were programmed with a "bracketing" attack profile in anticipation of such a manuever? Or for that matter if drones were faster than Spd32?

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Sunday, August 17, 2003 - 09:55 pm: Edit

Of all the Andro tech I'ld hate to see move into X2 DisDev is the number #1...although PA pannels is a close second.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Monday, August 18, 2003 - 01:42 pm: Edit

I'll second this.

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 09:38 am: Edit

I'm thinking of it as a high warp manuever not true displacement. The displacement trick the Andros did was just what gave the various races the incentive to see if the effect could be duplicated.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 01:38 pm: Edit

Tos, then might it cause a roll for breakdown (and eat a bonus if there is one)?

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Thursday, August 21, 2003 - 12:45 pm: Edit

It certainly might.

By R. Brodie Nyboer (Radiocyborg) on Sunday, September 28, 2003 - 01:20 pm: Edit

I've been working on the HEB idea, checking it against the rules, taking in other people's concerns, etc. Following is my latest version:

(2C.RBN.HEB) HIGH ENERGY BURST
GENERAL
This maneuver allows X2 ships to temporarily exceed the Speed 31 restriction. It's allocated much the same as a HET except that instead of turning the ship it moves the ship more than one hex during an impulse. Allocate warp movement power to peform a HET (applies to whole turn regardless of number of HEBs), then add warp movement power equal to twice the number of hexes of movement desired (up to the ship's Size Class+1). At the impulse of use announce HEB, roll against breakdown, and perform manuever. Note that the player MUST physically move the counter through each desired hex. The HEB may use up any or all of the allocated hexes of movement within an impulse and any one HEB will last only one impulse (i.e. can not be carried over to the next impulse). The manuever is performed in the same time span as a single-hex movement. The ship simply moves more than one hex. No chance to shoot at it until the movement is completed, just as per normal movement (ref. C1.45). The X2-ship then goes into post-HEB (e.g. post-HET) "cool off" period (four impulses) before next HEB could be performed. If the ship was scheduled to move under regular movement during a HEB impulse, it's regular Impulse Chart movement will occur before the HEB movement is applied. Hexes of HEB movement each turn count toward the ship's speed "history" for purposes of acceleration/deceleration. The power used for HEB counts toward Manuever Rate on the impulse of use (C2.422). If a ship uses Plotted Movement each HEB must be plotted.
BREAKDOWN
Breakdown rolls for HEB use the ship's breakdown rating but do not count against the ship's breakdown "freebie" counter. Breakdown rolls for HEB reset at the beginning of each turn. Note that breakdown rolls are done on a per-impulse basis not per-hex. If a ship breaks down on HEB is suffers breakdown effects according to the rules (thanks Loren Knight).
TURN MODE
A ship's turn mode is not reset after HEB but a ship benefits from only one hex of movement on any HEB impulse. A ship may not turn during the impulse of HEB. A ship may sideslip if it's sideslip mode is fulfilled but only on the last hex of HEB movement.
RESTRICTIONS
A ship must be moving at least Spd8 in order to HEB (thanks Roger Dupuy and John Trauger) and the HEB must be performed in the current direction of movement. HEBs are restricted to impulses where X2 ships can normally change speed (thanks Kenneth Jones). During the impulse of HEB the ship's Fire Control is disrupted (thanks Mike Raper) but returns to normal on the next impulse. No HET may be performed with HEB. No HET may be performed during the post-HEB period and vice versa. During the HEB impulse all effects of EM are lost even though EM may still be occuring. During any turn that a HEB is used the ship applies the effects of Disengagment by Acceleration on the first impulse of HEB and may then not Disengage by Acceleration (thanks John and Loren). During a HEB impulse the ship may not dock, launch or recover shuttles, and no transporters or tractors can operate. If a ship attempts to HEB while under a tractor it will automatically breakdown (thanks Geoff Conn). If a ship HEBs through a hex containing any weapon or effect that can hurt it, the ship will suffer the consequences.
X2-DRONES
X2-drones may HEB up to three impulses one time for free. The only restrictions are that they can't HEB into the hex of their target and they can only do it in "AI" response to their target HEBing. (This was inspired by Geoff's very legitimate concern about HEBs letting a ship "jump over" drones.)

There are still holes and questions here but this is what I've come up with so far.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Sunday, September 28, 2003 - 01:45 pm: Edit

I think a HEB should reset a ship's turn mode. If that's too extreme, perhaps subtracting 1 from the hexes toward turn. People will pull the HEB + turn to suddenly get someone's down shield.

Hades, if their turn mode is already fulfilled, they can jet off to any hex in their FA arc. SFB is turn-then-move, we'll recall. Subtracting one from the hexes to turn mode forces them to go straight.

The slow speed requirement raises the possiblility of HEBing while under cloak. I think the cloak would be voided for the HEB impulse.

By R. Brodie Nyboer (Radiocyborg) on Sunday, September 28, 2003 - 03:16 pm: Edit

John, good thinking.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Sunday, September 28, 2003 - 08:20 pm: Edit

so, you would begin fade in for each impulse of HEB, then after have to fade back out? Perhaps, this doesn't constitute a Cloak On/Off switch and if any ship HEBs to full fade in (pretty hard to do) it still couldn't activate Fire Control because the cloak is still actually on and would require the fade in period to activate FC if turned off at that point.

I think a maneuver such as an HEB should only allow streight movement with side slip. The entire HEB movement simply not contributing to or subtracting from turn mode satisfaction. Previous side slips determin which hex can be a side slip hex as if the HEB were normal movement.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Sunday, September 28, 2003 - 08:21 pm: Edit

Conducting and HET or HEB precludes the use of the other for four impulses.

By Kenneth Jones (Kludge) on Sunday, September 28, 2003 - 09:30 pm: Edit

HEB should give a great lock on roll for anti cloak work. Probably an extra +1 for every HEB hex moved. Since HEB's are trans 31 speeds. The basic lock on roll is already +6. Adding +1 per HEB hex seems to be enough to me.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Monday, September 29, 2003 - 01:51 pm: Edit

Simpler would be saying that using a HEB under cloak would probably be like a T-bomb flashcube. You can be locked onto for that impulse. The next impulse, the HEB is done and you're cloaked again. Everybody rolls to retain lock-on.

By R. Brodie Nyboer (Radiocyborg) on Monday, September 29, 2003 - 06:16 pm: Edit

John's thinking what I'm thinking with the flashbulb effect.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Tuesday, September 30, 2003 - 04:02 am: Edit

Yeah but since the movement modifiers already exist...Why make new rules when we can extend existing ones!?!