Archive through July 22, 2003
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Star Fleet Battles: SFB Proposals Board: The "X" Files: OLD X2 FOLDER: X2 Poll: Archive through July 22, 2003
By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Friday, July 11, 2003 - 01:09 am: Edit

A better question would be what the generic weapons mix should be?

Say the Fed gets 4x Photon, 8x P-5 as is the most common suggestion. What would we give everybody else?

By Kenneth Jones (Kludge) on Friday, July 11, 2003 - 08:47 am: Edit

I think for Plasma users:
2M 2S

And for phaser's on the Rom XCA.

6PV 5P1

is a good place to work from.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Friday, July 11, 2003 - 09:01 am: Edit

I would say.


Race Weapons Pre-refit Middle Period Weapons Post-refit
Klingon 12Ph-1s + 2X2G-racks + 4X2 Disruptors 4Ph-5s + 8Ph-1s + 2X2G-racks + 1X2E-rack + 4 X2 Disruptors 12Ph-5s + 2X2-Bracks (more spaces) + 1X2E-rack + 6X2 Disruptors
Federation 8Ph-5s + 4X2 Photons + 2 X2G-racks were slow to catch up but started with best cruiser...or there abouts 12Ph-5s + 4X2 Photons + 2X2G-racks
Gorn 8Ph-5s + 2X2 Ms 8Ph-5s + 2X2 Ms + 2X2 Ls 12Ph-5s + 2X2 Ms + 2X2 Ss

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Friday, July 11, 2003 - 02:06 pm: Edit

Ken,

NO plasma upgrade for X2?

MJC, A plasma DECREASE for X2?

People seem to forget that a Gorn or Rom X1 CA gets 2xM, 2xS right now.

But then it depends on what bennies we give to plasmas. These loadouts would be appropos if plasmas were given some advantage that didn't show up on the damage table. an example would be my not-very-popular photon-plasma proposal.

If we just used normal plasma firepower, the next rung in the sequence is 2xR, 2xM.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Friday, July 11, 2003 - 02:15 pm: Edit

This would probably go better on the Generic X2 hull or plasma threads

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Friday, July 11, 2003 - 02:37 pm: Edit

Quote:

A better question would be what the generic weapons mix should be?

Say the Fed gets 4x Photon, 8x P-5 as is the most common suggestion. What would we give everybody else?



Well, I can't say in any great detail what I'd do, but I can provide guidelines.

IMHO, 2X ships would probably use the P5 almost exclusively; the only other phaser would be the P6, and only on ships that habitually use small, defensive phasers. If the heavy weapons are going to get markedly better, than stick with normal cruiser arrangement; say, four photons, four disruptors, etc. My personal guiding light for X2 is "quality over quantity".

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Friday, July 11, 2003 - 03:34 pm: Edit

I just had an idea for plasma that I'll post in the correct thread in a few minutes.

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Friday, July 11, 2003 - 04:33 pm: Edit

I prefer a mix of P5 and P1 in X2 for races like the Fed and Gorns that are historically low mounting P3.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Friday, July 11, 2003 - 08:51 pm: Edit

Quote:

MJC, A plasma DECREASE for X2?


Like I've said, I'ld rather have 2Ms that has a speed 48 Sabot and 5 extra hexes of Glory zone than 2Ms & 2Ss that have a speed 40 sabot and use the regular charts we all know and love ( or hate depending on your position ).

I don't see it as a plasma reduction, it see it has an exchange of more quality for less quantitity ( whilst holding in reserve the ability to gain the extra quanitity as well ).


I guess it's a matter of balancing out the "bennies".


Quote:

I prefer a mix of P5 and P1 in X2 for races like the Fed and Gorns that are historically low mounting P3.


I would say the Ph-1 being in X2 the Ph-2 analog is a good idea.
12Ph-1s is about even with Ph-5s at R8 but if the Ph-1s get to R5 or less ( actually about R4 or less ) then look out, it's like getting a D7 to swing past your CA at R3!
And I think that kind of racial flavour is a good.

By Jeff Tonglet (Blackbeard) on Monday, July 14, 2003 - 09:04 pm: Edit

New poll:

What should the EW capabilities of an X2 ship be?

X1 gave us "8 with a -1 bonus", so that's a minimum.

A) 8 EW, -1 bonus (same as X1)
B) 8 EW, -1 bonus, special bridge
C) 8 EW, -1 bonus, full scout channel
D)10 EW, -1 bonus
E)10 EW, -2 bonus for +4 ECCM
F)10 EW, -2 bonus for +6 ECCM
G) None of the above (please give an alternative)

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Monday, July 14, 2003 - 09:12 pm: Edit

B, provided the special bridge has no EW abilities of it's own.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Monday, July 14, 2003 - 09:20 pm: Edit

B) with the special bridge as defined by Loren

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Monday, July 14, 2003 - 09:35 pm: Edit

G) 8 EW plus special bridge, but with no -1 shift bonus unless the ship opts for an outstanding crew ( or Legendary W.O. ).
The Speical Bridge should be able to perform all scout functions except those that can be refered to as LOANING E.W.!

By Jeff Tonglet (Blackbeard) on Monday, July 14, 2003 - 09:59 pm: Edit

F) 10 EW with a -2 bonus if you get +6 ECCM.

When fighting a GW ship, the GW can put up 5 ECM to totally prevent the -2 from happening.

Second choice: C) 10 EW, -1 bonus only.

Third choice: B) 8 EW, special bridge.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Monday, July 14, 2003 - 10:29 pm: Edit

B.

(side note: If play testing shows X2 needs a bigger EW advantage over X1 then we could give Special Bridge a EW function that generates ONLY 2 EW costing three points. I rather think that this wont be needed. I think same as X1 is good enough.)

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Monday, July 14, 2003 - 10:30 pm: Edit

G) 8 EW but no -1 as this is a benefit granted to X1 due to their outstanding crew and not built in by design. I don't feel we need a 'special bridge' but would be willing to give X2 ships certain inate scout-like abilities that don't include better drone defense or EW lending.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Monday, July 14, 2003 - 10:50 pm: Edit

Tos: Where does it say that the -1 is due to their Outstanding crew. Indeed, SVC says that it takes an outstanding crew to opperate an X1 ship and they lose all benifits of being Outstanding. The -1 is a function of "Better Targeting Computers". (XD6.3)

By Christopher E. Fant (Cfant) on Monday, July 14, 2003 - 11:00 pm: Edit

B. Provided the S-Bridge has no EW abilities of it's own.

By Kenneth Jones (Kludge) on Tuesday, July 15, 2003 - 10:13 am: Edit

B. With no EW of it's own.

By Ed Crutchfield (Librarian101) on Tuesday, July 15, 2003 - 12:42 pm: Edit

Ok in order to keep the EW advantage that one generation MIGHT have over the previous and to keep the changes in rules to a minium(which will make it easier to fit into the present game) give 2X ships a sensor rating of 8 and then like any otherX-type ship allow them to gererate 2 points in excess of their sensor level. That would allow them a max of 10 possibly giving them an advantage on X1 ships depending on the situation. And it peretty much stays withing the existing rules.

By Geoff Conn (Talonz) on Tuesday, July 15, 2003 - 04:35 pm: Edit

Preferably A.

Maybe B or C, but I'm not sure what B really is so this poll is flawed already.

By Andrew Harding (Warlock) on Tuesday, July 15, 2003 - 05:02 pm: Edit

A.

W and Y ships have the same EW capacity, early modern and GW ships have the same EW capacity, why wouldn't X1 and X2 have the same capacity?

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Tuesday, July 15, 2003 - 10:49 pm: Edit

Quote:

Ok in order to keep the EW advantage that one generation MIGHT have over the previous and to keep the changes in rules to a minium(which will make it easier to fit into the present game) give 2X ships a sensor rating of 8 and then like any otherX-type ship allow them to gererate 2 points in excess of their sensor level. That would allow them a max of 10 possibly giving them an advantage on X1 ships depending on the situation. And it peretty much stays withing the existing rules.


No, wait.
I fastload 12 point Photons with my Fed XCA and load them as Proxies...because I'm not arming my ASIF I'm moving at about speed 14...I can make this attack every turn.
My combination of five 3 point BTTYs and 8 EW keep the enemy at a 0 shift.
I launch off R12 fire of 6 bearing Ph-5s ( for 2 damage each ) and four Proxy Photons for 12 damage in total for a total of 24 damage.

The Klingon DX opposing me will be lucky to do 8 points of Phaser damage and 24 points of disruptors damage.

Okay, so it might seem like the X1 ship has the advantage and the X2 needs the extra ECM particularly with repect to the fact that it has a higher BPV.

But what happens if the Fed holds his fire ( by holding, not arming overloads ).
The next turn the Klingon with it's overloads will be crawling around and inflict just 8 points of damage ( it cannot make a perfect oblique at its current speed ) whilst the Fed will be flying around for dishing up the 24...look out if he goes for narrow volloies of 12 point standards.

And look out if the Fed comes into overload range on the next turn...6 O/L UIM Disruptors and 10Ph-1s ( the Klingon will porably have the speed and thus get the perfect oblique ) @ R8 will generate 51.66 damage whilst the Fed will fire back for 69...so the X2 doesn't really need that EW edge all that much.


An EW edge is not the only way to make the X2 ships fly well, we could choose to have weapons with reach and high speed and strong shields.

By Jeff Tonglet (Blackbeard) on Monday, July 21, 2003 - 11:36 pm: Edit

OK, I guess a majority want 8 EW and a special bridge, and it's 50/50 if a ship can get a -1 bonus.

I'll shut up about 10 EW, at least until we get some integrated proposals out here.

I guess I need a web page to stay in the discussion

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Tuesday, July 22, 2003 - 12:13 am: Edit

I keep saying I'm going to build a web page but haven't. I'm still in so don't worry about it Jeff. There always the IP thread.

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