I agree with that. And before I posted that closer to the old borders would be more worlds in question.

It also depends on which side they belonged to before. I suppose you were thinking of one one hex inside old Klingon territory. One might think automatically they would want to be Fed but perhaps they would prefer independance. THe Feds would be involved politically but if the Klinks sent in a sizable force they might not interfere openly. I don't see these worlds handling the logisics of a Alignment Treaty and being able to enforce sanctions. Serious sanctions would be begging for devestation from less tolerent Empires and worlds involved in sanctioning might face blockade (of a sorts) from the Feds. You have to remember that these worlds need to trade. That means they need stuff to come in, not just credits. They are almost all recovering from the worst of the wars, themselves.

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Wednesday, September 03, 2003 - 07:37 pm: Edit

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Quote:

Which empire would it want to join?

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By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Wednesday, September 03, 2003 - 08:42 pm: Edit

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Quote:

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When the Empire comes a knocking and says we want you to pay 16 years of back taxes so we can reconstruct our core infrastructure...

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I don't imagin any Nation even considering doing that. These worlds didn't flee their Governments, they were lost.

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Quote:

Imagine a world near the Fed Klingon border.

Imagine a mixed-race population.

Which empire would it want to join?

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By Loren Knight (Loren) on Wednesday, September 03, 2003 - 09:06 pm: Edit

No way. These are people living on planets. They want to stay alive.

Consider this: One turn = ~30 seconds. One CA (GW) can put out 50+ points of damage per turn. It takes in most scenarios 200 points to devestate a planet side. So, four turns times six planetary sides = 24 turns.

It takes no more than 12 minuts to totally devestate an entire planet from ONE Cruiser.

Sorry, but the threat is way too high. Not that the Empires would really want to devestate a planet but a little fleet like six old ships and a hope that another planet will send away it's own defense is planning to lose. The only way to not be reintegrated into an Empire is to play another against it or provide a reason not to. Against the Klingons, putting up a military defense is an invitation to destruction. They would have to meet the Challenge. The Feds too would respond in an undesired manner claiming that this rouge State is a threat to civilization and would isolate them to the Dealers table.

The Fedration Ambasitor put his arm around the Chanceler of Nimbus III.
"Look Fred, you know you can't get through this with out us. We're the only ones that will let you be free. But, if you insist on this silly sanctioning business then we will have to withdraw from sector R5341. You know... it's the sector between you and Kilgaths fleet. And you know he'll come; you're living in his house!"

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Wednesday, September 03, 2003 - 09:49 pm: Edit

The Empires have lost 90% of their original territory, some systems lost over 30 years ago. They have better things to do now then to devastate their former colonies. Being aligned to an Empire is to be on the front lines of the next war. What you are proposing is everything magically snaps back to Y165. I can't even imagine that and I can't see how it will become fertile ground for the Trade Wars.

I have placed a long post in the timeline topic. I invite all commentary on this subject to move there.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Thursday, September 04, 2003 - 12:03 am: Edit

I make this the last comment here too, in this thread.

No, I'm saying that the individual worlds would have an exceedingly hard time allining and wielding the power of sanction over the Empires. Hawaii, Poro Rico, and the Virgen Islands trying to gang up and sanction the U.S. or Russia or Japan. They aren't anywhere near the same class of power.

The Nations must be rebuilt and that will take a lot of time. Probably more than is available before the Xorks come.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Wednesday, September 10, 2003 - 10:11 pm: Edit

type XIII drones

The Type XIII drones was developed late in the X1 period and was an X1 drone.
It was the X1 analog of the Type III drone.

The type XIII is a one space drone. When built witrh extended range it is a 1.5 space module. When built with double extended range it occupies 2 spaces in the rack.
The regular Type XIII drone has an endurance of 25 turns before it burns out. the extended range version has an Endurance of 50 turns and the double extended range version has an Endurance of 25 turns.

A Type XIII drone may engage in off map bombardment as though it was a type III drone.

To replace a Type VII drone with a Type XIII costs 1 BPV.
To replace a Type VIII drone with a type XIII-X cost 1 BPV.
And to replace 2 type VII drones with a Type XIII-XX costs no BPV.

In all other ways a Type XIII drone acts like a type VII drone.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Thursday, September 11, 2003 - 08:23 pm: Edit

I guess silence is consent.

By Geoff Conn (Talonz) on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 08:43 pm: Edit

Remember the golden rule about ass-umptions.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 05:50 am: Edit

The Golden Rule...


Those with the gold: make the rules...


That Golden Rule?

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 06:31 am: Edit

The Klingon DXB


The Klingons considered building an X1 technology drone bombardment cruiser in the early X2 period to see if there was any point in replacing their D6Ds with ship that had a higher strategic speed.


They took a Conventional DX and reoplced the waite Phaser pairs with trios of X1G-racks (like the DXD) and removed the pair of boom tractors and replaced them with Special Sensors.
Although the design would have made a good Klingon GSV, the Klingons wanted a ship that could more easily be intergrated into the X1 squadrons and so looked into a way of making the Disruptors:- non-blinding...the solution they came up with was to replace ( on a one for one bases ) the Disruptors with X1E-racks.

The resulting ship could hurl eight type VIII drones each turn and loan EW and defends it'self against enemy drones and fighters quite effectively...but the cheaper and easier to build D6D could fill the Drone Bombardment role for the Klingons and the ship was not capable of travelling at the higher X2 strategic speeds for an actual new-production/direct-combat ship.
So only one was ever build...although several DXs and DXDs were converted in the late X2 period as the D6Ds needed replacing.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 12:32 pm: Edit

Not replacing the wing phasers the way the D6D does?

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 09:44 pm: Edit

Well...D6 doesn't have wing phasers...although the D6C has wing E-racks, so maybe all the D6Ds are converted D6Cs.

I figured rapid pulsed ( on different Aegis steps ) Ph-3 shots would be warrented in a fleet action to ward off all the drones that the E-racks couldn't deal with...an SP at close range will basically flood their defensive capasity, so maybe keeping the phasers of the wing would be warrented.


Personnally I wanted to keep some ability for direct fire.
Not replacing the tractors with Special Sensors and instead replacing the wing pasers would make a phenominal GSC ( particularly if the Disruptors are kept ) but I didn't want to build a ship that would put every X1 scout out of business.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 04:21 am: Edit

One thing I think would be really cool would be forr the Fed CARa+s that finally get religated to the National Guard fleets wou8ld be to give them the same AWR refit as the DDs got.


With six AWRs these CARa+as would be able to seriously perform...sure it's not needed for convoy duty because the freighters are already quite slow enough to arm the Photons as full overloads.
But consider moving at speed 29, holding full overloads ( burninbg one BTTY )...when your opponents by this stage are likely to Be X1s or X2 you could really find that kind of hussle handy!

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 12:45 pm: Edit

That's a good idea. I always thought the Fed CA was power-shy.

How many survived the General War, that's the question.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 02:52 pm: Edit

I though all CAs were in line to become CX's.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 04:16 pm: Edit

That would take a while and the APR upgade would be very quick.

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Sunday, October 12, 2003 - 07:07 pm: Edit

Yeah, I'd thought of something similar a long time ago, before the Fed BC's ever came out. Took the CAR+, switched four lab for four AWR, and added a pair of drones where the flag bridge would be. Called it the CAC, or Heavy Combat Cruiser. Man, I'd forgotten about it...have to resurrect it and make an SSD (the first one was done on graph paper about 15 years ago!)

By Geoff Conn (Talonz) on Tuesday, October 14, 2003 - 02:24 pm: Edit

I did the same in the first paper campaign I ran, a simple AWR refit, 4 lab to 4 AWR.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Sunday, October 26, 2003 - 06:19 am: Edit

One thing I would like to see added to the X1 era is a more advanced carrier EW capasity.

I think that During the latter X1 period carriers ( and PFTs for the Lyrans ) gained the ability to loan EW ( as listed under J4.921 ) to the drones launched by the fighters that are a squadron from that carrier.
Furthermore the carrier can lend EW to the Drones ( and plasmas if ECCM ) that it itself launched within the R10 limitation.


The reason for this is threefold.
1) Its a technological upgrade.
2) It'll be fun for a carrier to provide ECM to it'self and the drones it launches once the fighters have been blown to bits,
3) It'll give X2 Frigates a reason to exist, in that giving the X2 carrier escorts the ability to act as the carrier for the fighters launched by the carrier it is escorting ( upto a limit of one squadron ) and NOT giving that ability to all X2 ships will allow the X2 frigate to be a needed part of a fleet, rather than simply being too small to be feilded ( like any thing with 30 all round sheild boxes is too small and 20 Warp Engine Boxes!?! to function in a fleet battle).

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Sunday, October 26, 2003 - 11:56 am: Edit

Drones are good enough as it is. they don't need to be better.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Monday, December 08, 2003 - 07:47 pm: Edit

TIME DELAY T-BOMBs

In the middle years, the counter to ED-WW was to lay a T-bomb such that the enemy was in the blast radius, launch a Type VI drone as soon as the drone rack has recycled and find 10 points of damage.

As G-racks became more common and this slipped away but could still be generated with a PSS.

During the X1 period, this became harder to organise, because PSS with booster packs would fall prone to an X-ship's abundance of Warp and Impulse TACs stored up in her BTTYs and regular PSS had a hard time dealing with the 12 Impulse ED delay and the abundance of Reserve Warp for the X ship.

The Captains and Admirals wanted some kind of ability to cause a T-bomb to detonate more easily.

The Result was Time delay T-bombs.

In Y195 a simple circuit board was added to T-bomb and in Y196 it was added to NSMs.
I Y200 GW ships received both.

Rules.
The Time Delay T-bomb or NSM is simply a T-bomb or NSM with a time delay function that can be activated before launch.

The time delay may be set to any number of impulses but no less that 4 impulses from being placed and can not cause the mine to explode before it becomes active.

During the resolve movement based damage step of the impulse of detonation, the T-bomb (or NSM ) explodes at that instant inflicting damage on any thing in the blast radius.


History
The Time delay T-Bomb lead to the usual Flash-cube tactics becoming much more effect as the T-bombs could flash themselves raising the number of G-racks that could be launched at the found enemy.

The Development of the time delay T-bomb created a mine industry arms race that lead to command control T-bombs.


Command Control Mines
In Y205 command control mines were developed and X2 ships began using them.
In Y207 X1 ships received command control mines and in Y210, GW era ships gained command control mines.

The Command Control Mine uses a seeking weapon control channel to send a coded signal ( each drone has a different receiving frequency ) to the drone ordering it to mine to detonate.

Command Control Mines are most commonly used around bases to detonate the NSMs that an enemy ship might try to slip past at 1C, or simple to allow frindly ships to pass through and nonfriendlies not to.

A command control mine uses a simple simple circuit board that receives the coded transmission and detonates the instant it gets the signal.

Rules
The command control mine requires on the impulse of detination ( for the entire impulse ) the use of one drone control channel.
The seekign weapon control channel may only be used to detonate 1 CCM mine each turn and not within a quarter turn of any previous comand to detonate...although the seeking weapon control channel may be used to control a seeking weapon ont he same turn ( but not the same impulse ) as it orders a CCM mine to detonate.

A CCM mine must activate before it can be commanded to detonate and can be set for CCM, regular detection and Time Delay; simaltainiously so long as all three are ordered (programmed ) before being layed.

A CCM mine can not be ordered to programm it'self as a regular or time delay mine after it has been layed.

History
By needing to neither plan the number of crossings before detonation nor risk destruction of fighters and damage to ships, CCM mines changed the methodology of mine warfare ( with respect to guarding bases ) forever.
Through the simple use a few seeking weapon channels a base could allow her friendly ships to move back and forth through her mine feild like tholians through a tholian web and yet inflict massive damage to enemy vessels trying to breach that same feild.

By Christopher E. Fant (Cfant) on Monday, December 08, 2003 - 08:11 pm: Edit

Ok, perhaps you uucould explain what the big thing would be with the Time-delay? It just explodes without needing movement to trigger it?


Command Control mines already exist, (M5.2). Rule says they can't be triggered by ship, though iit does mention exceptions would be listed.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Monday, December 08, 2003 - 08:19 pm: Edit

It's also an auto-reject item.

Not that being an auto-reject item will auto-kill for X2, but definitely a mark against.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Monday, December 08, 2003 - 08:19 pm: Edit

When I mentioned, rereading rules (in a different thread) , I said someone rather than anyone specifically..on account of the fact that when you point, you have three fingers pointing back at yourself.

The big risk with time delay is that you could beam three T-bombs set to 8 9 & 10 impulses and then genrate up a whole bunch of 10 point mizias on the enemy...but with that much reserve and such a limited ED penalty, it's a smaller risk.
It could be a big risk but since X2 is a whole new class of ship and whole new style of fighting with a whole new set of BPVs; a BPV can be set for X1R/X2 T-bombs so I think it's do-able.