Mike that gives me a goofy idea.

Off hand proposal:

X2 Lyrans can attune their ESG to use as a sort of lens for disruptors. This uses the ESG for that turn (but require no cool down). There is no ESG sphere but a lens hex is noted between the firing ship and the target HEX that contains the target unit.

Power: 1 energy point per range. Range 0 has no effect. This is taken from the ESG capacitor (if there is one).

Effect: The range for all disruptors fired through the lens begins in the Lens hex.

Narrow field of fire: When using an ESG Lens the field of fire is restricted to targets in hexes in a direct line between the Lens hex and the target hex. Hexes where the line passes over the edge line cannot be targeted.

Possition: The lens hex AND the target hex remain in realative position to the firing ship. I.e. if the firing ship moves one hex in direction A then so do the Lens hex AND the Target hex.

A particular Lens can only be used by the generating ship.

Duration: A lens can be maintained for up to 32 impulses. It can be dropped volutarilly.

ESG Function: An ESG field cannot be raised on a turn in which a lens is active or within 8 impulses over a turn break.

Hellbores: There is no interaction between a ESG Lens and Hellbores. It's a completely different process.

Announcement: An ESG Lens must be announced like an ESG field must be. The specific lens hex is determined the impulse it forms.

Unqualified Hexes: A Lens hex MUST be open space and can contain no terrain of any sort (including asteroids, planetary rings, dust clouds, moons, planets, atmosphere, nebula and web). A lens cannot opperate with in 30 hexes of a Black Hole.

The Target Hex can be any hex with in 30 of the lens hex.

================

Note: With this the Lyrans would get no change to their disruptors from X1. And yes, that would put Lyran Disruptor OL's out to a possible R11.

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Friday, January 23, 2004 - 01:36 pm: Edit

I am a fan of racially flavored disruptors. Any nay Sayers? Are there formal specs? What would balance them with photons?

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Friday, January 23, 2004 - 04:36 pm: Edit

I like racial flavor for disruptors also.

I think Mike lays out a good start point.

Loren's ESG lens proposal is very powerful as it extends overload range.

One addition I would make is that the lens cannot decrease the true range below 5. If the true range without the lens is 4 or less, the lens is no help. Thus, it extends the 5-8 OL range but not the more powerful 0-4 overload range.

By R. Brodie Nyboer (Radiocyborg) on Friday, January 23, 2004 - 04:47 pm: Edit

I say go for a base enhancement for X2-disruptors, then modify for racial flavor.

So how do we define the various racial flavors for DISR users?

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Friday, January 23, 2004 - 04:55 pm: Edit

John, remember though, it uses up a whole ESG. That's why I felt that the OL range could be extended. You give up a potention 15 to 30 damage points/defensive points and expend power for it (1-3). It also narrows you fire. If you are firing in such a way as to reach a Lensed R1 your target could easilly move out of arc.

Few things I forgot:

Once the Lens is formed, it can be fired through the following impulse or later.

The lens must be placed between the target hex and firing ship as close to a straight line as possible. Where two hexes are equally close either will do.

The Target hex must be recorded but need not be announced. Disruptors may target any unit between the lens and the target hex.


==============

If put into practic it get harder and harder to use the closer you get.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Friday, January 23, 2004 - 05:14 pm: Edit

Loren we're talking about the ability to inflict unanswered overloads on another ship.

He's at range-9, I set up a lens and fire, then turn and run at high speed. The target takes the shot then can't counterpunch without running the Lyran down.

That's hellaciously powerful.

The other alternative is still not let overloads exceeed 8 hexes true range and allow the lans to change the hit probabilities and perhaps damage. I set up a range-3 lens shooting at a Kzinti at range-7 and hit him with Disrs as if from range-4. But if the Kzinti is at range-9, I do NOT get disruptors at range-6 because the overloads would be exceeding the 8-hexes true range for overloads.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Friday, January 23, 2004 - 05:58 pm: Edit

I considered that and could be acceptable.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Friday, January 23, 2004 - 05:59 pm: Edit

Accually, that would increase the to hit and damage ratings but keep it a true R8 OL.

OK sold!

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Friday, January 23, 2004 - 08:51 pm: Edit

Nice doing business with you.

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Sunday, January 25, 2004 - 12:00 pm: Edit

Interesting concept. One question I would have about all these various racially flavored disruptors would be which the Orions would use. I mean, I can't see them getting tholian disruptors that shoot through webs. Maybe the standard Klingon type? Or, perhaps something of their own? How about a disruptor that fires twice per turn, doing half the damage of a normal one but rounded up? That sort of suits the Orions; it would be useful to strip a ship of weapons and make it easier to capture. Or, as a really nasty option, a disruptor that can fire from a cloaked ship with reduced effectiveness?

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Sunday, January 25, 2004 - 12:17 pm: Edit

Mike, we can get some guidence from the past. For instance some abilities would be more a ship wie ability rather than solely located in the weapon type.

Orions with Tholian phasers can't shoot them throuhg webs so I'd say it's not the phaser that has the ability. Likewise with Disruptors; though there might be some part of a disruptor that makes it work, in an ORion the system would be incomplete.

An ESG w/Lens would require having Lyran disruptors as well and both would have to be X2 versions. THe ESG lens would be very effective on Lyrans.

They sould be able to mount a Kzinti-DC but might should take up two mounts?

So, their favorite X2 disruptor would probably be the Klingon. Orion tactics tend to extend from Klingon tactics pretty well.

That said, X2 might well be a good time to introduce an Orion only weapon. Even if it's just one. Maybe a something like a Stasis Pulse Generator. 15 power + 1 per range, FA arc, two mounts, one turn cool down. Places a target in stasus for 4+1d6 impulses.

Not to propose a non-disruptor thing here, just suggesting a line of thinking about an Orion only thing that suites their specific needs.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 03:22 am: Edit

I'm for one Disruptor type across all disruptor using races.

I'm okay with the Disruptor Cannon because it's not called a disruptor but rather a disruptor cannon...keeping the confussion level low is important.


I think the First Question to be asked is, should the Klingon XCA have 6 Disruptors or go back to four!?!

Personnally I think the Klingon XCA should stay with 6 for psuedo-engineering reasons ( if you've done it once you can do it again ).

The Next question should be how much more powerful over an X1 Disruptor it should be?

Consider:-
X2 Disruptors being identical to X1 Disruptors excpt the UIM and Defracs are built staight in and all shots use the UIM/defracs to-hit numbers ( even standard shots inside R8 ).
It's not much of a change and so X2 Photons won't need to be much more powerful...perhaps 16 point fastloads and nothing else...or 20 point warheads and nothing else...or my Quantum Torpedoes just Posted in the X2 Photon thread.

On the other hand, if we have:-
X2 Disruptors using Heavy Disruptor Table ( base 6 instead of 5 ), a Disruptor Cap ( 4 points holding refitted with the BTTY refit to 6 points ), a six impulse double broadside penalty, staying with 6 Disruptors AND fully intergrated UIM/Defracs on the to hit tables.
Then 24 point Photons with all the trimmings don't seem so unreasonable.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 03:26 pm: Edit

Loren could have an interesting idea there with orion-specific weapons.

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 08:48 pm: Edit

Just a wild idea. What if you could make a disruptor that fires in several different modes? Something like this:

• Base fire one time per turn; damage base 6, energy cost 2.
• Rapid fire twice per turn, four impulses between fire minimum: damage base 3 per shot, energy cost 2.
• Double-strength fire, once every two turns with two turn arming: damage base 10, energy cost 2+2.

By R. Brodie Nyboer (Radiocyborg) on Wednesday, January 28, 2004 - 09:31 pm: Edit

Sounds like an adaptation of the pre-X-fix X1-phaser rules, which would work for disruptors. How about 4pts per shot for rapid fire?

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Wednesday, January 28, 2004 - 09:42 pm: Edit

So an X2 Klingon XCA with 6 Disruptors can generate at R0, 6 x 20 x 6/6, for 120 points of damage, but a Fed XCA with four 24 point Photons can't because 96 points of damage is TOO GOOD at killing ships!?!


Even the 48 damage of 24 point Photons at R8, falls short of 6 x 4/6 x 12 ( 48 ) if the Disruptors can fire those two-turn disruptor shots ( Disruptor Cannon ??? ) using UIM ( for 60 damage!!! )!...even if there was an auto-burnout penalty or some such.

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Thursday, January 29, 2004 - 06:36 am: Edit

And who said that they would get 6 disruptors if we went this route?

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Thursday, January 29, 2004 - 12:14 pm: Edit

Bingo.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Thursday, January 29, 2004 - 01:10 pm: Edit

exactly.

By Jeff Tonglet (Blackbeard) on Thursday, January 29, 2004 - 07:38 pm: Edit

Sounds good. Personally, I'd like to see some variety in the X2 disruptors.

The Kzintis get something with crunch power.
The Klingons get something with flexibility.
The Lyrans get something with zero hold cost.

The WYN and Orions will end up with a ship that has one of each. (Talk about needing new tactics...)

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Thursday, January 29, 2004 - 10:58 pm: Edit

Okay...so 4 Disruptor that can inflict 20 points of damage each at R0 are inflicting 80 points of damage...that's pretty much what four 20 point Photons will give you...still makes mere 16 point fastloads seem weak.

But at R8 12 x 5/6 x 4 (40) is neck and neck with 20 x 4 x 3/6 (40) except that the uber-disruptor is less effected by EW than the Photon and the 20 point Photon must be paid for all in warp...so the uber-disruptors is streets ahead!


At any rate I would say that 6 Disruptor X2 cruisers are going to either be possible or demanded as soon as the 4 Disruptor cruisers get published...so the Klingon XBCH will be a serious •••••• ••••••.

By Christopher E. Fant (Cfant) on Thursday, January 29, 2004 - 11:00 pm: Edit

20 points from a distuptor? You guys are cracked. 205 is NOT that long off. If the DISR has not improoved that much froom X1 over GW, what in the world makes this jump pratical?

By R. Brodie Nyboer (Radiocyborg) on Thursday, January 29, 2004 - 11:05 pm: Edit

Good point. If anyone was to pull that off though it would be the Klingons. The others would likely go for the other options.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Thursday, January 29, 2004 - 11:18 pm: Edit

Well actually, that what the DC is able to do so maybe only the X2 Kzintis will have that weapon.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Friday, January 30, 2004 - 02:40 pm: Edit

I'm with Cfant.

I do NOT see a use for a 20-point disruptor. Not if we're limiting photons to 20.

The disruptor has accuracy. The photon needs the damage edge, even a 2-turn-arming disruptor cannon.