CFant, what if the Kzintis finally figure out how to overload a disruptor cannon?

It would be a two turn weapon that does 20 points.

The text says they would have used it even in Y130 if they had been able to overload it.

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Friday, January 30, 2004 - 07:32 pm: Edit

One thing to consider, here, is that the X1 photon already outperforms the X1 disruptor in terms of damage, thanks to the fast loading feature. This is the main reason the X1 ships get more disruptors; the DX got six to compensate. A new disruptor that can do more damage if loaded over two turns won't break anything if they are mounted in the original numbers; i.e., four to a cruiser. In fact, such a weapon would do less than the X1 disruptor armed ship over two turns if used as such. The only advantage would be crunch. This could be offset with some slight penalties, namely that neither UIM nor DERFACS would work with the system; technobabble is that so much power used at once would burn them out automatically. I can go either way, but I don't think we should immediately balk at the possible 20 points in one turn.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Friday, January 30, 2004 - 07:52 pm: Edit

As Federation allies I can see the Kzinti turning to the Crunch ideal.

Klingons, however, should stay a Fire every turn race. The Disruptor base 6 is a good solution. It is an evolution of the disruptor. Now, six is too many but four isn't enough compared to the 20 point crit/base 10 photon. So, I put four forward and two rear. This worked out well I think.

The Klingon XDC (D5 size) has just four but hold true to the advantages of the D5.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Friday, January 30, 2004 - 08:22 pm: Edit

I am just real leery of a Disruptor that breaks even damagewise with a photon. Especially one that hits better to boot.

It just seems wrong.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Friday, January 30, 2004 - 09:50 pm: Edit

John: I would like to point out that unlike the photon the DC would diminish with range. Only out to R2 would it do such damage.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Friday, January 30, 2004 - 10:27 pm: Edit

True.

But is that enough of a balance for the superior accuracy of the disruptor?

We're dancing on the edge of supplement 2 territory.

By Christopher E. Fant (Cfant) on Friday, January 30, 2004 - 11:57 pm: Edit

Gone past it I think.

By Jeff Tonglet (Blackbeard) on Saturday, January 31, 2004 - 12:51 am: Edit

Past it? Really? A couple months ago, I proposed the same thing. A Kzinti-only disruptor cannon that could overload.

It was a two-turn weapon that be held on rolling delay.

Damage for a standard shot was 1-6 for 10 at range 0, 1-4 for 6 at range 5-15, etc.

Damage for an overload was double this.

I was told that it was an OK GW weapon but not powerful enough for X2.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Saturday, January 31, 2004 - 02:26 am: Edit

I proposed it back in the beginning of the X-Files and Mike Raper proposed his own version. Both those were generally accepted as workable.

The idea is that this is a Kzinti weapon. Note as well that there is no UIM or DERFACS for the DC.

As a two turn weapon that fizzles with range it will end up a medium range to short range weapon.

Part of what makes the disruptor so dangerous is it knife fighting ability. At medium range the risk of a miss is less because you get another shot the next turn. With the DC this is not so.

Since the DC will weaken with range it needs the better to hit factor of a disruptor. It's an even trade.

And yes, watch out getting close but then the same goes for every one else's X2 ship.

As a Kzinti I often do not load disruptors every turn. I believe a good Kzinti Captain sets up his enemy with drones and maneuver then strikes. With all that an X2 ship the DC lends well into good Kzinti tactics.

I believe that both the Kzinti and Federation should hold on to fighters as well. Sure at first fighter tech. should wane some then as the Trade Wars heat up they come back as instruments of force (send in the carrier to hold planet Z).

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Saturday, January 31, 2004 - 03:00 am: Edit

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Past it? Really? A couple months ago, I proposed the same thing. A Kzinti-only disruptor cannon that could overload.

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Since the DC will weaken with range it needs the better to hit factor of a disruptor. It's an even trade.

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By Christopher E. Fant (Cfant) on Saturday, January 31, 2004 - 09:24 am: Edit

Well, since the Disruptor already weakens with range, saying that shis is ok becuase it is more powerful but weakens with range is.....useless.

And yes Jeff, past it. You guys are trying to do to much. Change every ships a thousand ways. Make every ship a crunch ship. Give every ship the ability to sustain tremendous blows. Up this, Up that, oh and Up that too.

I realize that none of this is official, and all of it is player opinion only, but if even a tenth of all the things folks have proposed gets used, it'll ruin the game system, as nothing will ever be able to stand up the these giants of the playground.

By Christopher E. Fant (Cfant) on Saturday, January 31, 2004 - 09:27 am: Edit

1-5 for 10 damage at range 8!?!?!?

See, cracked I say. Cracked!!

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Saturday, January 31, 2004 - 10:03 am: Edit

If the DC gets an overload function it could also be +50% damage, like a HB.

If the Kzinti do get a double damage DC overload I would like to see it allowed to fire as a standard load turn 1 and an overload turn 2. I'd like the weapon not to be holdable but rolling delayable.

1) For this arming example I'm going to assume a DC costs 4 to standard load and 8 to overload for double damage.

4: Standard Load
4+2+2+2: Standard Load on rolling delay
4+4: Overload
4+4+4+4+4: Overload on rolling delay

2) If we go with a 50% increase in damage then I'd suggest that any turn 4 power is put into the DC it becomes unstable and can't be held.

4: Standard Load (unstable, can't be held)
2+4: Overload (unstable can't be held)
2+2: Standard Load
2+2+1+1+1: Standard Load held
2+2+1+1+1+3: Overload converted from held Standard Load
2+2+2: Overload
2+2+2+2+2+2: Overload on rolling delay

Obviously the second proposal is both less powerful and more complex.

3) As a third proposal we could simply state that the DC uses the exact same procedure as the X1 HB (XE10.0).

"1-5 for 10 damage at range 8!?!?!?"
I would not support UIM working with the DC. I could support using a HB style to-hit table to give it some added flavor, particularly if we go with option 3.

By Christopher E. Fant (Cfant) on Saturday, January 31, 2004 - 12:50 pm: Edit

Great, so you want to make a photon out of a disruptor.

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Saturday, January 31, 2004 - 01:55 pm: Edit

I personally would rather fight against a Klingon armed with four of these type of disruptors than one with six slightly better ones. Considering that the X1 DX can dish out 60 points per turn with his disruptors if he chooses, I don't see the worry in a ship using disruptor cannons that can do 80 points every two turns, and with no UIM or DERFACS to boot. Not every race or ship will carry them, either. Just some. I would just about be willing to bet that such a weapon will appear one day, if we ever see GW Carnivons. After all, GW adds overloads to almost all the EY weapons; the DC won't be any different, I don't imagine. So giving a 2X race what is essentially a GW weapon doesn't bother me.

By Christopher E. Fant (Cfant) on Saturday, January 31, 2004 - 02:02 pm: Edit

But the only two races that have ever been about "crunch" are the Feds and the Hydrans.

Everyone else if about finesse, hit and fade, dancing, whatever.

Why would they suddenly change?

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Saturday, January 31, 2004 - 02:40 pm: Edit

The Disruptor cannon damage would degrage over distance, same as a diruptor.

10 damage would only be out to range 2,
8 to range-4
6 to range-8

1.5x overloads would be
15 to Range 2
12 to range 4
9 to range 8

2x overloads would be
20 to range 2
16 to range 4
12 to range 8

Does this counterbalance the disruptor's increased ability to hit?

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Saturday, January 31, 2004 - 03:55 pm: Edit

The Kzinti armed with four DC would be a new type of finesse. Not like the Fed at all.

Hydrans had the most difficult to use crunch but this changed with the Hellbore. Now they are a smack you in the face and pick at the wound type.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Saturday, January 31, 2004 - 04:22 pm: Edit

Defintiely you'd only need 4 of these things.

By Christopher E. Fant (Cfant) on Saturday, January 31, 2004 - 04:41 pm: Edit

12 damage at range 8 with a 1-5 or even a 1-4 hit is too much.

It would cripples anything DW or smaller in one pass at range.

Drop the to hit to 1-3.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Saturday, January 31, 2004 - 04:50 pm: Edit

Not on a disruptor-based weapon.

Accuracy is it's thing.

I think 1-4 would be acceptable.

The pohoton is doing 20 points on a 1-3 as it is.

By Jeff Tonglet (Blackbeard) on Saturday, January 31, 2004 - 05:13 pm: Edit

The disruptor cannon is an EY weapon, if you can't overload it.

If you can, would that make it a GW-tech weapon, that nobody had thought of until Module Y was published?

Would a Kzinti GW ship be better off with 4 disruptor cannons or 4 regular disruptors? If it's an improvement, how much?

And just to make sure I'm on the same page, I'll spell out my DC proposal:

Use the normal disruptor to-hit chart.
Damage is doubled.
No UIM, No DERFACS.
Arming cycle for a standard shot is 2+2. This can be on rolling delay.
Arming cycle for an overload is 4+4. This can also be rolling delay.
Arming can change from standard to overload on any turn by changing the energy. However, if the last two turns are 4+2 or 2+4, then you get the disadvantages of both. Standard damage, range 8 limit.

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Saturday, January 31, 2004 - 08:41 pm: Edit

So no way to use it as a single turn weapon? I don't think they would go for it. At that point the X1 disruptor w/UIM is better.

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Saturday, January 31, 2004 - 10:44 pm: Edit

I could see the Kzintis using it, though only them. The power cost would be significant...to significant for a Klingon to do his thing. But a Kzinti, with mostly drones for HW's, could spare the power to arm the things and use them to finish off a target at close range. Plus, the rules for the DC in module Y specify that the Kzintis would have adopted it because they liked its crunch power, but since it couldn't be overloaded the kept the normal disruptor instead. Fixing that problem would make it a very attractive toy for the X2 Kzinti. With no UIM or DERFACS, it wouln't hit as well as the disruptor, but would hit slightly better than the photon...but with damage that drops off at range. All in all, a fair mix IMHO.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Saturday, January 31, 2004 - 11:10 pm: Edit

A fresh new weapon. Though, I suppose some wont like that quality.