Jeff said: If it's too big, consider what an R-torp does to WCA or YCA ships.

The Romulans would want to go back to that dynamic, if possible.


Well, back then the War Bird was built around the R-Torp but with the X2 era I doubt that dynamic would return. The ship is going to be fast and have other weapons. The Warbird dynamic is gone. (Unless, you came up with a REALLY big plasma that could be the only weapon on the ship aside from a few phasers, then maybe. Even so, this new ship would move fast, something the WarBird couldn't do.)

I do have some attraction to a 60 point torp. and the reason is simple; Enveloping does 120 or 20 points per shield. Nice and even.

So the new big gun could be a 60 point R40 seeking that moves at sabot speed normally. Make it a Romulan only weapon (for a while at least). Additionally, it might be interesting to not allow Shotgun or Enveloping for a couple years. Bolting of course would be allowed.

By Geoff Conn (Talonz) on Monday, August 11, 2003 - 02:52 am: Edit

Personally I'm still for standard Xtorps (R,M,L) but making Sabot standard and super-sabot as a powered option.

By Andrew Harding (Warlock) on Monday, August 11, 2003 - 04:06 am: Edit

I can easily see an improvement to the R torp in X2 - the G torp went to S in the general war and then to M with X1 ships, while the standard mode of the R is the same as it always was (albeit faster arming, faster moving and with a second PPT). To be competitive with a pair of M torps, it would need a substantial warhead - 80 is probably too much (as it'll have a lower power demand than the pair), 60 too low. 70 looks about right to me.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Monday, August 11, 2003 - 07:46 am: Edit

---

Quote:

I do have some attraction to a 60 point torp. and the reason is simple; Enveloping does 120 or 20 points per shield. Nice and even.

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By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Monday, August 11, 2003 - 08:47 pm: Edit

Actually going to a higher strength ( tripple damage ) EPT at a higher cost may well provide the Romulans with that old flavour.

Since nonR-Torp users can't afford to pay the higher EPT cost associated with the 3EPT they had a tactical doctrine of not ( we can write that in the R sections ) whilst the R-3EPT was a massive single hit it was cheaper to build 1R-3EPT than 2M-3EPTs ( or for that matter 2S-3EPTs ) and thus the Romulan were more able to deploy it effectively.

If an R-3EPT costs around the same price to arm as a pair of M-EPTs than the R-3EPT will be seen quite often but the 2M-3EPTs will be quite uncommon. At 150/6 and 160/6 damage respectively, the attacks are quite balanced...pity help bases under Gorn assult suffering 240/6 damage.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Monday, August 11, 2003 - 08:55 pm: Edit

I too am for the old Plasma types but I do suppose there should be one new one. A big Z-Torp might well be a good seller.

In either case I think we can make plasmas better in other ways too.

Two proposals I've given are the Plasma Shroud and the Myopic Plasma. These abilities can make the old types much more powerful. Other people had more proposals in the grain, too.

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Monday, August 11, 2003 - 09:45 pm: Edit

Plasmas, on the impulse of launch, can choose not to move for up to 32 impulses. While not moving they do not degrade. The controlling ship can begin movement at any time after launch during the plasma launch step of the impulse procedure. If movement has not begun after 32 impulses movement starts on the 33 impulse. If the controlling unit loses control the plasma begins moving on the following impulse. Control can be transferred normally. Degrading begins normally once the plasmas begin moving. PPTs can also perform this manuever.

This creates a sort of temporary plasma captor mine which may have tactical applications.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Monday, August 11, 2003 - 10:22 pm: Edit

Ya, like when the enemy is approaching.

Note sure about this one Tos, but for the sake of developement I'd suggest the launching ship must maintain lock-on/guidence until plasma movement begins. That would require Romulans not to cloak until the plasma attains its own lock-on on the first impulse of movement. The launching ship should also be required to be within R30 of both the target and the plasma during this time.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Monday, August 11, 2003 - 11:08 pm: Edit

Here's another approach to plasma. A very powerful plasma that moves very fast (Spd 40) but have a shorter range.

X2 Hyper-Plasma: Arming Energy 2 + 2 + 5 (Yup, cheep).

Range (impulses)	1-5	6-10	11-14	15-16	17-19	20
Warhead	80	60	30	15	5	1
Bolt (Damage)	1-4 (20)	1-3 (15)	1-2 (7)	1-2 (3)	1 (1)	n/a

The special nature of the H-Plasma that makes it so powerful does not lend well to bolting. If a H-Plasma is bolted the damage is 1/4 the damage (marked in parenthesis).

A later scarry version might be the Hyper X-Plasma where they extend the range of each bracket by 5 (except the last bracket which would be R25).

By John Stiff (Tarkin22180) on Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 05:27 pm: Edit

How about a speed refit on the X2 plasma, i.e. speed 64! I would eliminate the sideslip for this plasma. I.E. the plasma moves straight for 2 hexes or turns and moves straight for 2 hexes. A ship could "dodge" the plasma (for a while anyway) with proper manuevering. Except for the sideslip and speed, all plasma rules are unchanged. Ofcourse, the regular X2 (speed 32) plasma can be launched at the pleasure of the captain.

By Geoff Conn (Talonz) on Thursday, August 21, 2003 - 02:33 pm: Edit

With plasma normally not losing range with the extra hexes gained under sabot, speed 64 would be deadly even with no sideslips.

An amusing idea none the less, to see plasma literally 'flaming' around the board.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Friday, November 07, 2003 - 12:27 pm: Edit

Had an interesting thought about a 60 point X-Plasma.

Down load it as an evoloping S-Plasma (and yes, make it written to do that).

When launched the opponant wont know which type it is as the warhead is the same (60 pts.) unless he/she has been tracking the enemies power very well.

This little tid bit may be all the plasma races need for X2 plasma improvements. Yes, its seems small but the tactical uses are good for keeping the enemy off kilter.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Friday, November 07, 2003 - 03:38 pm: Edit

Not if a ship can outrun either a X or a enveloping S.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Friday, November 07, 2003 - 05:16 pm: Edit

Sabot for either, naturally. Part of the X2 Tech.

But I'm pretty sure that trans 32 should be out.

I have been thinking of a rule for a temporary withdraw using a short burst of disengagement speed. I'll propose it in the Speed limit thread.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Tuesday, February 17, 2004 - 02:29 am: Edit

Slow thread but here is something new for plasma.

This assumes that plasma remains as X1 with only some enhancements. Natuarly Sabot and Carronade and possibley my Plasma Shroud and Myopic Plasma proposals. Anyway, this could fit with other ideas too. So it goes like this.

Some of the technology for the mauler was added to X2 plasma launchers allowing Captains who had the energy available to enhance to power of their Bolted Plasmas. At the point of firing a unit may apply reserve power to enhance to warhead of a bolted plasma. (only reseve power may be used and only for Bolted plasma)

The damage of the plasma bolt is increased by two points prior to division for each energy point commited. (This basically add one damage point per energy point to the bolted plasma).

The maximum energy that can be added is equal to half the standard seeking warhead.

Extra damage diminishes with range. Count the range brackets from left to the range bracket the target is in and divide the added damage by that facotor. (each bracket is counted on the 'BOLT' line on the X-Plasma Torpedo Table.)


Example: An X2 Romulan Cruiser wishes to add energy to a bolted Plasma-M. The player chooses to add ten points of reserve power adding the maximum 20 to the warhead. The target is at range 12. So the damage will be 30+(20/3 brackets=6) for a total of 36/2=18 bolt damage. Alterativly if the target had been at R5 it would have been 40+(20/1)/2= 30 point bolt!

Like the mauler, very dangerous. This perhaps would only be fitted to the largest torps on each ship. If a Cruiser had one R torp and two M torps it would be fitted on the R.

Alternatively it could be a BUYABLE option for X2 Plasma ships whose race normally opperates maulers. This should not be able to be fitted to smaller plasma launchers like F or L types.

What might be the BPV cost? 5, 10 each?

Or is this too crazy?

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Tuesday, February 17, 2004 - 02:38 am: Edit

I suppose you could allocate the energy but if you didn't use it in a bolt it would be lost at the end of the turn.

Or

could be put into reserves if there is available room.


One problem though, this could be used to recharge batteries that aren't discharge at the begining of the turn. I.e. allocate ten extra points to a plasma and have full batteries. Then use ten batteries later for shields that turn and not fire the plasma. You could then use the plasma points to replenish your batteries at the end of the turn.

This would not be good.

So perhaps stick with reserve power only at the time of firing. This is sort of how a mauler works anyway.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Tuesday, February 17, 2004 - 03:08 am: Edit

Funny how posting something make you think about it in different ways.

After further thought I believe there should be NO individual BPV cost to this system as Bolting is not very accurate and you end up gambling with a lot of energy for moderate gains in damage potential. THis should just be an integral systems in ALL X2 plasma. Who cares what launcher it comes from F, L, S, M, or R. (OK definatly not for D or K) The controlling factor is the maximum added warhead is 50%.

One more thing, this system cannot cause damage at a range beyond what the particular warhead can reach. Of the chart says zero then the damage is zero no matter how much you added.

What to name the system?

By Kenneth Jones (Kludge) on Tuesday, February 17, 2004 - 08:34 am: Edit

How about Plasma Mauler. Simple and straight forward.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Tuesday, February 17, 2004 - 10:40 am: Edit

I was hoping for some acronym (like DERFACS) and went through a bunch but my mind wasn't giving me any good words to use.

All I got was things like

Bolt
Mauler
Enhancement
System

BMES

I would use "Plasma Mauler" if it was purely it's own weapon but it's really just a occasional use enhancement to a launcher.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Tuesday, February 17, 2004 - 12:17 pm: Edit

Ran dom thoughts:

Almost nobody bolts outside range-10.

The Gorns already have the short-range Plasma Carronade. The Roms wouldn't get the Carronade, so they might look at something like this.

The big question is not long range, but short. If I bolt plasma at range 0-1, do I get the 2:1 mauler damage ratio?

Do we really want them to?

This parallels the Gorn photon-plasma proposal I came up with last year, although it's much simpler in operation.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Tuesday, February 17, 2004 - 12:38 pm: Edit

John: No the formula holds. At best it is a 1:1 damage increase.

The plasma is bolted and you get that marvelous damage to energy ratio. This only adds to that. But with a lot of energy you could get as much as 50% increase in warhead.

I only use the mauler as part of the technobabble. Part of the mauler technology is use to add energy to the bolt at the time of firing.

By Kenneth Jones (Kludge) on Tuesday, February 17, 2004 - 02:05 pm: Edit

Take a look at the Long range Plasma bolt rule I appropriated for 2X. [It's in SSJ1.]

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Tuesday, February 17, 2004 - 02:11 pm: Edit

Actually, I like that one (the LRB rule). Very simple, and effective. That and maybe a "new" R torp for putting the fear back into a single torpedo would be nice.

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Tuesday, February 17, 2004 - 02:34 pm: Edit

In WWII subs they had a fast torpedo with short range and a slow torpedo with long range. This may not work in SFB as bases can't run. In fact with Sabots the opposite is true, fast torpedoes have longer range then speed 32 torps. I guess I don't have an SFB suggestion here, just pointing it out in case someone else can think something up.

Well, lets take the M-torp. The M-torp has a combined damage/impulse of 40*10+30*5+20*5+15*5+10*3+5+1=761

Now lets say I was allowed to customize this 761 to meet the tactical need. Say 20 fixed damage with a 38 impulse range or 15 fixed damage with a 50 impulse range or 35 fixed damage for 21 hexes.

By Kenneth Jones (Kludge) on Tuesday, February 17, 2004 - 02:43 pm: Edit

TOS, Actually the Triaxians from C4 have Long and short range versions of the basic plasma.