Why not a variant of the Russian "Rocket" torp?
The torp move faster than ordinary torps (speed 64?) but got a turn mode of, well let's say A for a start. By smart maneuvering you get an opportunity to out maneuver it.
This is just an idea, and I don't want a patent, so feel free to develop it as you please

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Tuesday, February 17, 2004 - 06:01 pm: Edit

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Now lets say I was allowed to customize this 761 to meet the tactical need. Say 20 fixed damage with a 38 impulse range or 15 fixed damage with a 50 impulse range or 35 fixed damage for 21 hexes.

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By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Tuesday, February 17, 2004 - 06:04 pm: Edit

My unstated working presumption was that the warhead could never be larger then the normal maximum.

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Tuesday, February 17, 2004 - 07:26 pm: Edit

I'll get smacked for suggesting this, but...what about hyper-plasma? You know, a plasma torpedo that acts like a hyperdrone?

By Andrew Harding (Warlock) on Wednesday, February 18, 2004 - 05:48 am: Edit

I bolt outside 10 with X1 ships fairly frequently (not that I play X1 all that often). If using EW, a centerlined CX can get a 50/50 chance of 52 damage at 15 hexes, which isn't too shabby. In practice the volley is smaller, with the offside torp(s) launched only if the enemy pursues. That's substantially better than a set of photons at the same range and can give a D5 squadron expecting an easy saberdance victory a rude shock.

By R. Brodie Nyboer (Radiocyborg) on Wednesday, February 18, 2004 - 09:33 pm: Edit

What about a plasma that's a torpedo going out then splits into shotgun and attacks separate targets on command?

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Thursday, February 19, 2004 - 09:27 am: Edit

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If using EW, a centerlined CX can get a 50/50 chance of 52 damage at 15 hexes, which isn't too shabby.

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By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Thursday, February 19, 2004 - 09:36 am: Edit

Brodie,

You mean something like a shotgun torpedo that isn't restricted to a defensive mode? Sounds kind of neat, actually. How would it break down? Could you, for example, break down an R into 2 type G's, or would it have to be type F's only?

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Thursday, February 19, 2004 - 04:23 pm: Edit

Sounds like a sort of a shotgun that acts like a MW drone.

It'd probably read like an enveloper until it broke.

Givent he limits on plasma it would probably be launched with a preprogrammed number of hexes before splitting. On command is too good. Not even MW drones and scatterpacks get that.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Thursday, February 19, 2004 - 07:41 pm: Edit

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It'd probably read like an enveloper until it broke.

Givent he limits on plasma it would probably be launched with a preprogrammed number of hexes before splitting. On command is too good. Not even MW drones and scatterpacks get that.

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By R. Brodie Nyboer (Radiocyborg) on Friday, February 20, 2004 - 06:03 pm: Edit

John, I had your "oh s**t" torpedo in mind when I wrote that and yes it would work like a MW drone. MJC you have a point there about the yield reduction. Any ideas anyone?

By Geoff Conn (Talonz) on Friday, February 20, 2004 - 07:10 pm: Edit

Delayed Shotgun? I'm not sure how this is going to be useful and not be broken. Power cost is already double to get the split. Increased power cost? Yikes. reduced # of warheads? Whats the point then?

However, if you allowed ept/shotgun via reserve power, that would be more interesting to me.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Friday, February 20, 2004 - 07:29 pm: Edit

What about a STARFISH plasma ( and this just brain storming )...the plasma travels out and then shoots off bolts at the targets?


As to MW plasma, it doesn't have to be countered by extra power or a warhead reduction, it could be countered by pure BPV.

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Friday, February 20, 2004 - 07:30 pm: Edit

Hmmm...how many bolts, and what size? That's actually kind of a nifty thought. How 'bout some details?

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Friday, February 20, 2004 - 08:10 pm: Edit

I guess you'ld want to immitate ADD rounds so you'ld use plasma Ds, but I'm not really up on the plasma D rules. You might want to trade in Fs for Ds when you bolt to offset the fact that bolts can't be shot at.

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Friday, February 20, 2004 - 08:33 pm: Edit

Plasma D bolts would be mighty small. Maybe F-bolts, the same number as you'd get from a shotgun?

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Friday, February 20, 2004 - 09:22 pm: Edit

I guess it depends if there comes to pass a rule that says X2 bolts don't halve damage just for bolting then they'ld probably be okay...for now, just say bolts as F and see where it leads us.


On the "Oh SH$T Torp", what about R-torps and R-torps only get to evenlop for tripple the warhead damage ( 150 point warhead is easier to split 6 ways than 100 ).
Now that would make people poop their pants.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Friday, February 20, 2004 - 09:27 pm: Edit

I'm not sure how you cna get a plasma to bolt. A normal bolt is defined as detonanting the plasma in the launch chanber. How do you get the plasma to do it on its own?

I think you would find the Steves nervous about using D-torps unless you bolted as D-torps for the number of F-torps the shotgun gets.

Example: S-torp shotguns for 3x F-torp, would starfish plasma for 3x D-plasma bolts.

This might also work for the MW plasma idea, also. The S torp would break into 3 fresh D-torps out to, say 20-25 impulses of its run.

By Kenneth Jones (Kludge) on Friday, February 20, 2004 - 10:41 pm: Edit

Geoff, My original Plasma Proposal included arming EPT/SG/Sabot etc from Reserve power.

Here's the whole plasma bit repasted.

FP: Plasma Upgrades

My Intention with Plasma Upgrades was to give the 2X ship more versatility without giving the GW ship something it has never faced before. There have been many interesting comments but nothing really useful without a LOT of balancing problems IMO.

So I settled for a broad range of modest upgrades. It doesn’t make a big difference to a GW ship if it has an EPT armed during EA or during the turn with reserve power.

Arming

Plasma Torpedoes can be Enveloped/Shot gunned with Reserve (or battery) Power. Instead of having to be allocated. Even Held torpedoes can be turned into EPT/SG/LRB.

Movement

Using Carl Magnuss Carlsons suggestion to SVC. Rom 2X Plasma Torpedoes can HET and move. Instead of merely Hetting in place.

I stayed with using 32/40 for Plasma Speeds. R10 will be out soon. None of us have much experience flying against Sabot Torps. So lets not write them off with the Super Sabot just yet.

DF Plasma

There are two possibilities.
1. Mike Rapers Plasma Cannon
The Tables are on the SSD’s for consideration.
2. Using the Long Range Bolt rule from SSJ1.
Basically any Bolt at a True Range of 11 or more will do Damage as if the Bolted Torpedo had hit after moving the same distance. (IE. It is not halved for Bolt Damage.) It costs as much to use a LRB as it does to Envelope the same Torpedo. Note: You can’t EPT and LRB to gain a type of Overload. It’s one or the other. See JFP2.0 in SSJ1 for more Details.

1. The problem with the Plasma Cannon is that it does not address the Plasma users weakness vs. DF in fleet engagements at Middle to Long Range.

2. The main objection I have to the LRB is that it IS a SSJ rule. But maybe 2X tech was able to make it work.

Pseudo Torpedoes

A minor improvement for Pseudo Torpedoes is the ability to simulate an EPT. Cost to boost the Pseudo Torpedo depends on the size of the launcher.
G 1
S 2
M 3
R 4

Pseudo Torpedoes can be reloaded in a scenario. It takes 1 pt of power for 4 Turns with a fifth turn costing the same as the final turn of arming of the torpedo being simulated.

By R. Brodie Nyboer (Radiocyborg) on Friday, February 20, 2004 - 11:29 pm: Edit

"Poop thier pants." MJC at times you really do have a way with words!

By R. Brodie Nyboer (Radiocyborg) on Friday, February 20, 2004 - 11:30 pm: Edit

Geoff! Give us input! Please! You are a plasma guru!

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Saturday, February 21, 2004 - 11:29 am: Edit

Hmmm...here's an idea.

I think we can safely assume that a plasma torpedo warhead can be made to do different things after it is launched; for example, the EPT has to surround a target, then implode to do its thing. So, if that's possible, it might be possible to get a plasma to do something else.

Anyone ever heard of SADARM? A SADARM (Sense And Destroy ARMor) round is fired above a target; submunitions separate and decelerate by parachute, then sensors detect a target and the warhead explodes, fring a small penetrator round down on top of the target. I was thinking a similar concept might work for plasmas, and MJC's starfish plasma gave me an idea. Lets say you arm a plasma as a starfish. It launches and runs just like any other plasma, but when it reaches a pre-set range to the target, it explodes and fires a bolt. The bolt damage would be based on the range the torpedo had travelled, and the chance to hit on the distance from the target. For example:

Gorn XCA fires a type M torpedo in starfish mode at an ISC ship. He sets the range for the plasma to explode and bolt at 5, so that the bolt will hit on a 1-4. The plasma travels along for 15 hexes before it reaches this range. It explodes, firing the bolt at the ISC. Since the plasma had traveled 15 hexes, it's base damage would be 11 (half of 22, just as a normal bolt). But, he has a much better chance to hit with it.

Since a target could not detect whether or not a plasma is a starfish type until it explodes and bolts, the tactical applications are very different, especially if the target ship plans to launch a weasel; if he launches to late, he wastes it and gets smacked by the bolt. This would give the plasma player a way to enhance the chance to hit with a bolt without increasing the damage.

Opinions?

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Saturday, February 21, 2004 - 12:09 pm: Edit

Opinions? Yes, all the time!

Oh about the plasma, OK, ya that too.

I don't think a plasma can have the smarts to track a FTL target from 50,000 KM to fire a bolt at it as good as a ship. It seems a ship has a hard enough time since the chance is only 1-4.

HOWEVER,

I could see a plasma bolting from R1; Perhaps a 1-3 chance. I know this greatly reduces your proposal but there are a couple things to consider.

One, it would bolt before a WW would be launched in most cases and would still be a good surprise.

You don't really have range bracket problems like you would with +/-R5. For instance, say an S-torp bolts at R5 after traveling 15 hexes. Is the bolt strength 11 or 7.5? If 11 you effectively give the torp a +5 on the range. In similar circumstances with the R1 a +1 to range would be as bad though you might say in both cases you add the total range to determine the bolt strength (the distance the bolt traveled + the bolt range equals the bolt strength bracket).

I had some other thought but I just got distracted. My son is crying so I'm going to see why. Probably because he is "but I NEED some" about something.

By R. Brodie Nyboer (Radiocyborg) on Saturday, February 21, 2004 - 12:10 pm: Edit

Wow! That's mean! I like that! That makes me think more HEAT round than SADARM, but it's interesting since we have Sabot plasma. Plasma as a SFB analoque of modern anti-tank weapons. Call it the Bolt-On-Range-Enhanced (BORE) Plasma.

I think you three (MJC, Mike, and Loren) need to work on that together.

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Saturday, February 21, 2004 - 12:24 pm: Edit

I could live with that; the mechanics are still something to work out. It's the concept I'm interested in. Now, as to your question. The bolt strength would be based on the number hexes it traveled in plasma torpedo mode; so in the example you gave, the damage would be 11.