I can see the Lyrans developing X1 and X2 PFs...but I wonder what other races would have PF technology in the X2 period ( maybe the Hydrans purely because of the husefullness of Fi-Cons ).


I was thinking that maybe in the X1R period that the Federation may use interceptors and the then in X2 use PFs.
In this way the Federation ships of the final part of the SFB's timeline would have what in essence are RUNABOUTs with nessessarily being called runabouts.

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Thursday, January 29, 2004 - 09:24 am: Edit

I'm OK with PFs in X2. Perhaps not attrition units in multiples of six but I can see them fitting the role of Captain's Yacht. Dole them out with limitations similar to MRS shuttles.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Thursday, January 29, 2004 - 12:13 pm: Edit

I see a phase that would coinside with X2 where attrition units are AI units recieving 1/4 turn plot remote instructions.

I've been trying to come up with such a thing for remote fighters to lessen their vulnerability to scout channel "Break Lock-ons".

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Thursday, January 29, 2004 - 01:06 pm: Edit

If a PF isn't going to have a sentient crew, I'd prefer them to be radio controlled than AI-conrolled.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Thursday, January 29, 2004 - 03:52 pm: Edit

The idea is to mix the two.

The problem is that a Scout Channel can disrupt your control and send them packing very easy. It take four to send a fighter squadron looking for the carrier but only would take two channels to disrupt a whole PF squadron (leaving two channels to make up for bad die rolls).

So, you get a choice. You can plot part of the turn or all of the turn. I just have to figure out how to make it simple. I'm almost there and will submit it to SVC when I'm done.

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Thursday, January 29, 2004 - 04:02 pm: Edit

A PF without a crew is an attrition unit. We already have rules for Death Riders (K7.0).

I'd like something small like a PFLX. These would not be attrition units, rather they would take on the role of a police ship, perhaps even being under the control of the police. Like a police ship these ships would be multi-mission capable and well defended but poorly armed. Being short ranged, mostly in-system use, they would 'dock' to mech-links to be moved where needed at high warp. This leaves the door open to XPFT and battle XPF when the Xorks arrive.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Thursday, January 29, 2004 - 04:19 pm: Edit

Tos,

The death rider rules work fine if you want to base-bust. I'm not sure they're enough to run a combat PF in a combat setting.

If the empires build XFFs, there would be no need for PFs as police ships.

In addition, I think the poor range requirements for PFs would make them poor police ships anyway, otherwise they would be pulling convoy duty on a regular basis.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Thursday, January 29, 2004 - 04:32 pm: Edit

I'm basing my rule on Remote Fighters alla J2.

Both Fighters and XPF could use these.

Though this is only an experiment to see if PF even have a place in X2 era.

The rule I'm working on might integrate into the normal RC rules.

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Thursday, January 29, 2004 - 05:07 pm: Edit

"If the empires build XFFs, there would be no need for PFs as police ships."

I'm thinking of he XPFL-POL as an in-system unit to police trade during the trade wars. There are more systems then frigates so a cheaper non-fleet unit would be useful. Still, I wouldn't want to live on one for months at a time so maybe it isn't practical.

Then again the police ship could simply continue to soldier on with cheap XP tech.

By Jeff Tonglet (Blackbeard) on Thursday, January 29, 2004 - 07:35 pm: Edit

But a PF in the X2 era doesn't have to be as cramped as the attrition unit we're used to.

Perhaps if the "ionic charge flushing system" were minaturized enough, then XPFs would have the crusing range of a GW Pol.

Then again, maybe that's the Lyran's race-specific invention for X2? A MC 1/5 ship with the crusing range of everyone else's MC 1/3's.
MJC, you mentioned the term "runabout". That may be enough to prevent ADB from publishing an X2 Fed PF.

I don't know if an X2 PF would have any more firepower than a GW Pol, but it would add variety.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Thursday, January 29, 2004 - 08:12 pm: Edit

Jeff,

No they wouldn't. PF would need to be redesigned for longer than 72-hour habitation.

By Jeff Tonglet (Blackbeard) on Thursday, January 29, 2004 - 10:55 pm: Edit

This is a new level of technology. The redesign could be included in that tech-level jump, if it makes a fun ship to play.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Thursday, January 29, 2004 - 11:12 pm: Edit

---

Quote:

I'm basing my rule on Remote Fighters alla J2.

Both Fighters and XPF could use these.

Though this is only an experiment to see if PF even have a place in X2 era.

The rule I'm working on might integrate into the normal RC rules.

---

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Monday, March 08, 2004 - 01:29 pm: Edit

I might comment.....

1. We are going to do one or two more SFB modules with counters this year.

2. We're looking for something easy to do but with good sales.

3. An X1R module, including such things as rules for partial refits and some new X-ships such as X-frigates, could be workable.

I am appointing Tos Crawford to the mission of preparing a one-page document detailing what ships (general ideas or a specific list, his choice), rules, and other materials might be included in X1R. He is to invite input from others, here in this topic, in other topics, or by Email. He will post his memo in this topic not later than 20 March 2004 and will then evaluate other input from players and will email me a revised memo on 25 March 2004 (not before, not after).

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Monday, March 08, 2004 - 01:39 pm: Edit

I have a new freighter design that I was holding onto for the future. It is a Y195+ design that is fitting to the era. It is not a sole replacement for existing freighters but fill a role they couldn't fill before.

They are also to play a big part in the exploitation of the LMC after the war.

Tos: Please e-mail me if you're interested.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Monday, March 08, 2004 - 01:45 pm: Edit

Ask not for Tos to email you; Email him and he can ignore you if he wants.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Monday, March 08, 2004 - 02:39 pm: Edit

Makes sense.

--edit--

My intent was to allow Tos to absorb this new appointment and gather his thoughts. Then have him let me know when to send it.

I'll simply wait a couple days then send it.

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Monday, March 08, 2004 - 03:03 pm: Edit

As the future of the universe descends lightly upon my shoulders...

Feel free to e-mail me, but not with large attachments. My Yahoo e-mail is full and I have to constantly battle to keep things from getting bounced. I'll look into finding some more space if it appears necessary.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Monday, March 08, 2004 - 03:14 pm: Edit

Mike Raper has my GIF's of the SSD. He might post them and I'll just send you text.

Not right now but soon.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Monday, March 08, 2004 - 03:24 pm: Edit

Don't send SSDs to Tos. Just send him a BRIEF text description. The final decisions will be made by Petrick anyway, we just need to see what kind of material is out there.

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Monday, March 08, 2004 - 03:44 pm: Edit

Steve, can you give me an upper and lower range for how many counters we are talking about?

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Monday, March 08, 2004 - 03:58 pm: Edit

216 or 108 counters.
47, 63, or 79 SSDs.
Rulebook could be 48 or if there are alot of scenarios 64.

By Robert Cole (Zathras) on Monday, March 08, 2004 - 04:21 pm: Edit

SVC: Would you want any Selt / Andro ships in an X-module? Perhaps something that they developed as a "direct result" of X-ships (or maybe something conjectural for the Selts...)?⁴²

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Monday, March 08, 2004 - 05:14 pm: Edit

X1R and XP, to me, are somewhere in the Y186-Y202 era. That means Andro war. I'm not Steve but Andros IMO are likely.

Selts are less likely but possible as they are killed off by Y187. Considering the flavor text at the end of (R15.1A) and all of (R15.1B) state that the Selts never get any X-tech any X-development we give the Selts would be purely conjectural. That said (R15.1B) also says the Selts never used carriers or fighters and that was promptly overturned in R6 so I guess anything can happen.

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Monday, March 08, 2004 - 05:17 pm: Edit

Does anyone know the status of the Andro Threat File project? Is there a thread on it or is it purely a collection of ADB SSDs or is it being integrated into the ships that never were/SSJ2 projects?